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Ason
2020-05-13, 09:52 AM
My apologies if this is answered somewhere else, but I've looked all over, found no clear guidance and so am turning here for clarification on the Mount evolution for devil Unchained Eidolons. Here's the relevant text...


Mount (Ex): The eidolon is properly skilled and formed to serve as a combat-trained mount (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mount). The eidolon must be at least one size category larger than its rider.Requirements: Daemon (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Daemon), demon (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Demon), devil (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Devil), elemental (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Elemental), or protean (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Protean) subtype; quadruped or serpentine base form.

Here's what confuses me: the devil subtype does not offer a quadruped or serpentine base form, at least not on d20pfsrd or aonprd. So the evolution says devils both are legal but also illegal choices for it. What gives? Is there a base form option for devils that I'm missing, or is this just an editing oversight?

Psyren
2020-05-13, 10:07 AM
Presumably you would need to take the Limbs evolution first (choosing legs) to make your devil a quadruped.

Ason
2020-05-13, 10:54 AM
Presumably you would need to take the Limbs evolution first (choosing legs) to make your devil a quadruped.

Does that work? I wasn't sure if the unchained rules let you ever escape your base form restrictions, even by adding limbs.

Psyren
2020-05-13, 11:24 AM
Does that work? I wasn't sure if the unchained rules let you ever escape your base form restrictions, even by adding limbs.

You can read it one of two ways. Either adding two legs to your biped doesn't actually make it a quadruped (maybe the other two legs simply stick out of the existing ones?) or it does. It's true that it doesn't say it does, but it's also true that it says devil eidolons with quadruped and serpentine forms can become mounts. I read the second rule as the designer intent, an intent that doesn't work if devil eidolons can never become quadrupeds or serpentine.

In other words - the point of the "unchained" restrictions was to make some eidolon configurations impossible, yes, but also to make some others possible but more difficult/costly/more of a tradeoff than they were originally. Choosing a devil eidolon essentially creates an evolution tax if you also want it to be a mount, a tax that demon eidolons can choose not to pay.

The alternate reading is simply that the inclusion of "devil" under the mount evolution was a misprint or error. That's certainly a possibility, but riding a devil doesn't seem to be broken from where I'm sitting, especially when compared to a demon you have to pay a tax and they don't.

Ason
2020-05-13, 02:29 PM
Thanks! It was my first time reading the unchained summoner rules, and so I was a bit overwhelmed by all the changes. I greatly appreciate your input.