Shields can shatter

[Vogie]

Something I'm looking to incorporate into my games is the ability for a creature to reduce a crit to a normal hit by sacrificing their shield, lowering their AC to reduce that extra damage. I believe that mechanic was originally from OPD.

However, that doesn't do much for those characters who don't use shields... But that left me thinking about other things that give AC Bonuses, such as the Shield Spell, Mage Armor, and 1/2 or 3/4 cover.

If I incorporate a "shields will shatter" type of mechanic, could/should it also include things like cover and spell-based defenses?

[Nifft]

You could have weapons shatter too, some kind of a Parry reaction.

Then a Shield user would have more options, but a big 2-hander would not be left out in the cold.

Maybe allow a Shield to be sacrificed to block ranged and spell attacks, too? Then the Shield is superior but not overwhelmingly so.

[nickl_2000]

If you are going to make shields shatter and weapons shatter. Arcane foci need to shatter as well. Don't screw over martials without doing the same to casters.

[Nifft]

If you are going to make shields shatter and weapons shatter. Arcane foci need to shatter as well. Don't screw over martials without doing the same to casters.

Having the option to downgrade an inbound crit doesn't seem like a screwing over.

Arcane Focus users would be worse off if they lacked this option.

[Boci]

If you are going to make shields shatter and weapons shatter. Arcane foci need to shatter as well. Don't screw over martials without doing the same to casters.

This is beneficial to martial users. They can choose to have their shield shatter in return for a 1 off protection. They can simply choose not to use it. They're not being screwed over.

[LudicSavant]

If you are going to make shields shatter and weapons shatter. Arcane foci need to shatter as well. Don't screw over martials without doing the same to casters.

That won't screw over casters at all; they're all just going to have spare material component pouches.

You'd be outright buffing casters by letting them sacrifice foci to downgrade crits.

Edit: Geez, double ninja'd.

[nickl_2000]

This is beneficial to martial users. They can choose to have their shield shatter in return for a 1 off protection. They can simply choose not to use it. They're not being screwed over.

Alright... maybe the focus is to much, but if you are introducing a negative to martials consider it carefully to also give a negative to casters.

That being said, carrying 5 focuses and pulling out a new one isn't that a big of a deal. Carrying multiple shields is a bigger deal, and it takes a full action to don a shield.


Alright, maybe I didn't read the OP nearly as well as I should have.... ignore me please

[Nifft]

Alright... maybe the focus is to much, but if you are introducing a negative to martials

There is no way in which this is negative to martials.

It's exactly the opposite.

[nickl_2000]

There is no way in which this is negative to martials.

It's exactly the opposite.

See above with edits after you hit the reply button :)

[Lupine]

To Vogie's initial question, I have to say, I like the idea of items breaking over time, and have long been a fan of equipment wear and tear.

If equipment repair was implemented, I would make it a fighting style, where they can lower or negate damage, at the cost of causing faster wear on their shield

[Witty Username]

I would say for cover just don't give the player the choice, the cover just explodes. maybe give the cover an amount of crit it can absorb so that stone walls cannot be cleared by a lucky archer.

Spells are probably fine as is, I do like the idea of breaking a shield spell though. It would make the spell a little stronger, but it would be something of a trade off because using it to block a crit would leave a caster vulnerable to focus fire.

Maybe give players the ability to choose that when this happens to enemies, It will make them feel special when they do it.

[Pex]

If the first attack is a crit and the idea is used, the character is now at lower AC for the rest of the fight making it that much easier for opponents to hit him. Also, crits happen a lot over the course of battles. PCs will be continuously having to buy new shields. It becomes an annoyance, so it will never be used. It becomes worse if it's armor, and makes the character useless for the fight if it's a weapon. What about magic weapons, shields, and armor? Players will not want to lose them, and if they don't break then the house rule is meaningless.

If you must do it don't trigger it on a crit. Trigger it on a hit that would drop the PC. The hit becomes a miss, even if a crit. It becomes a more meaningful choice to enable the character to remain conscious one more round or at least force the opponent to make one more attack if multiple attacks and the dropping would happen on the non-last attack. Shields break, armor dents for -2 AC, and weapons aren't involved at all. If the shield or armor is magical it takes two uses or one crit to dent either for -1 AC. They can be repaired and retain their magic. Mending spell can fix all, making it worth taking the Cantrip. The AC penalties still matter because of pop-up healing. Since Mending takes a minute to cast it won't be used during combat. Adamantine, Mithral, Dragonhide, etc. can't dent. As a special property the wearer gets one free use of the rule per combat.

[Vogie]

If the first attack is a crit and the idea is used, the character is now at lower AC for the rest of the fight making it that much easier for opponents to hit him. Also, crits happen a lot over the course of battles. PCs will be continuously having to buy new shields. It becomes an annoyance, so it will never be used. It becomes worse if it's armor, and makes the character useless for the fight if it's a weapon. What about magic weapons, shields, and armor? Players will not want to lose them, and if they don't break then the house rule is meaningless.

If you must do it don't trigger it on a crit. Trigger it on a hit that would drop the PC. The hit becomes a miss, even if a crit. It becomes a more meaningful choice to enable the character to remain conscious one more round or at least force the opponent to make one more attack if multiple attacks and the dropping would happen on the non-last attack. Shields break, armor dents for -2 AC, and weapons aren't involved at all. If the shield or armor is magical it takes two uses or one crit to dent either for -1 AC. They can be repaired and retain their magic. Mending spell can fix all, making it worth taking the Cantrip. The AC penalties still matter because of pop-up healing. Since Mending takes a minute to cast it won't be used during combat. Adamantine, Mithral, Dragonhide, etc. can't dent. As a special property the wearer gets one free use of the rule per combat.


First of all, that's way too complicated.

It's an option for both a PC or NPC - not a requirement. And I'd also want it to be a choice both the DM and the Players have to make prior to damage being rolled. And I'm not talking about armor or weapons either. Mending also shouldn't be a cure-all to minimize the mechanic.

The reason I chose shields, and potentially Mage Armor/Barkskin, is because they'd be able to be replaced in a single round - recasting those spells, or donning a shield, all take a single action. Shields are not only cheap, but also common drops off of mobs, and spell slots are also naturally replaceable.

[LibraryOgre]

I've seen this rule in AD&D; basically, the rule allows you to sacrifice your shield to negate a single attack's damage; some versions let the shield make an appropriate saving throw (crushing blow or fire, if being used to protect against a breath weapon).

Part of the reason it overly favors martial characters is because martial characters are more likely to get hit. Sure, the mage is in bad shape if he takes an ogre's club to the face, but the fighter is getting hit by the ogre's club several times a fight. Letting those who engage in melee more frequently spend gold to avoid some damage helps their longevity... and you can occasionally use it to good effect for NPCs, too.

[Misterwhisper]

First of all, that's way too complicated.

It's an option for both a PC or NPC - not a requirement. And I'd also want it to be a choice both the DM and the Players have to make prior to damage being rolled. And I'm not talking about armor or weapons either. Mending also shouldn't be a cure-all to minimize the mechanic.

The reason I chose shields, and potentially Mage Armor/Barkskin, is because they'd be able to be replaced in a single round - recasting those spells, or donning a shield, all take a single action. Shields are not only cheap, but also common drops off of mobs, and spell slots are also naturally replaceable.

Hell no.

Might as well just say the dm will ignore your crits anytime they feel like it by sacrificing minor items in their stat block.

This is a big middle finger to martials because PCs have to sacrifice future ac and items it might be hard to get back and NPCs get a free ignore crit for almost nothing.

[Sigreid]

I think if it's a player option and not a set rule, it's fine. Sure, give them a way to save themselves for another round by blocking the crit. How do you envision this with magical shields and weapons?

[Vogie]

Hell no.

Might as well just say the dm will ignore your crits anytime they feel like it by sacrificing minor items in their stat block.

This is a big middle finger to martials because PCs have to sacrifice future ac and items it might be hard to get back and NPCs get a free ignore crit for almost nothing.

I mean, if you didn't read anything I wrote, then sure.
If the Monster has a shield in their statblock, it can sacrifice 2 of it's AC (the shield) to negate the crit. They can then use an action to don another shield as an action, if they have one.
If the PC has a shield, it can sacrifice 2 of it's AC (the shield) to negate the crit. They can then use an action to don another shield as an action, if they have one.
If the Monster has an AC boost due to Mage Armor in their statblock, it can sacrifice 2-3 of it's AC to negate the crit, until they recast Mage Armor as an action
If the PC has an AC boost due to Mage Armor in their statblock, it can sacrifice 2-3 of it's AC to negate the crit, until they recast Mage Armor as an action

I mean, if your DM makes sure all of their PCs have a handy haversack with infinite weapons and shields at their disposal (that can't be disarmed or targeted) and mysteriously vanishes on defeat, then yes, your issue is valid. I don't play that way, and I've never seen a table that does, but I suppose that is a very real problem for your play experience.

[Misterwhisper]

I mean, if you didn't read anything I wrote, then sure.
If the Monster has a shield in their statblock, it can sacrifice 2 of it's AC (the shield) to negate the crit. They can then use an action to don another shield as an action, if they have one.
If the PC has a shield, it can sacrifice 2 of it's AC (the shield) to negate the crit. They can then use an action to don another shield as an action, if they have one.
If the Monster has an AC boost due to Mage Armor in their statblock, it can sacrifice 2-3 of it's AC to negate the crit, until they recast Mage Armor as an action
If the PC has an AC boost due to Mage Armor in their statblock, it can sacrifice 2-3 of it's AC to negate the crit, until they recast Mage Armor as an action

I mean, if your DM makes sure all of their PCs have a handy haversack with infinite weapons and shields at their disposal (that can't be disarmed or targeted) and mysteriously vanishes on defeat, then yes, your issue is valid. I don't play that way, and I've never seen a table that does, but I suppose that is a very real problem for your play experience.

The point is that NPCs don’t have to care about their items for the future because they are just NPCs.

Also, how often is someone going to use their action to don a shield after also having to retrieve one? Probably never.

How often will NPCs do it? Any time the dm wants them to live a little longer.

If anything, this should be a half feat with a little added bonus tacked on.

It should definitely not be a common ability to everyone.