How do you punctuate a name?

[eyebreaker7]

For example the name Shebdel List-Nemon. How do I decide if it should be Shebdel List-Nemon or Shebdel List'Nemon or what? Is it a racial thing or a grammer thing or what?

[King of Nowhere]

a lot of fantasy uses plenty of apostrophes just to make a word look exotic. there are no rules about it

[Batcathat]

This is just a guess, but I feel like in the real world at least, you use a - when combining two different names and a ' when combining two parts of the same name. Does that make sense to anyone but me?

[AvatarVecna]

For example the name Shebdel List-Nemon. How do I decide if it should be Shebdel List-Nemon or Shebdel List'Nemon or what? Is it a racial thing or a grammer thing or what?

My understanding (and I'm not a linguist, this is just my best guess) is that when this happens IRL, it's because a name has been Anglicized for ease of being read in English, but it's not an English name, it's in some other language and uses different rules...and the punctuation is an attempt to get English speakers pronouncing it more or less correctly.

To use your example, suppose that this surname was pronounced something like "lihs teh neh mon", but in the original language "lihs teh" are one symbol and "neh mon" are a second symbol, each their own separate word but put together make a surname. You're an Englishman trying to write the name in such a way that an English person reading it will pronounce it correctly, while still indicating the break between the two symbols even though you're writing it in a completely different language.

To use a reverse example, imagine if some dude named Smithson was having his name translated into Japanese. "Smith" probably has its own symbol, and "son" probably has its own symbol, but normally when they're put together, they would say "the blacksmith's son", which isn't Smithson's name. So some kind of Japanese punctuation might be necessary to make sure that the name was read as "Smithson" by somebody reading the Japanese symbols - and to that native speaker, it would read a lot like "Smith-son" or "Smith'son" or something to that effect.

(all of this is just my best guess at why this is done in general. I might be totally off-base.)

[D+1]

For example the name Shebdel List-Nemon. How do I decide if it should be Shebdel List-Nemon or Shebdel List'Nemon or what? Is it a racial thing or a grammer thing or what?
Use of apostrophes in fantasy names is punishable by being kicked out of even your own game at your own house because everybody used up all tolerance for that decades ago.

[AvatarVecna]

Like, there's no way the name "drizz't do'urden" is actually written that way, because even if Common is English (and it probably isn't), that's a drow name not a common one, so it'd be originally written in drow script. That's not how it would actually be spelled.

[Vrock Bait]

To use a reverse example, imagine if some dude named Smithson was having his name translated into Japanese. "Smith" probably has its own symbol, and "son" probably has its own symbol, but normally when they're put together, they would say "the blacksmith's son", which isn't Smithson's name. So some kind of Japanese punctuation might be necessary to make sure that the name was read as "Smithson" by somebody reading the Japanese symbols - and to that native speaker, it would read a lot like "Smith-son" or "Smith'son" or something to that effect.

(all of this is just my best guess at why this is done in general. I might be totally off-base.)

I’m familiar with conversions of English names into Asian characters, and what we only rarely break last names and such by meaning. Mostly, we use characters that sound similar and string them together. It’s usually absolutely meaningless, but that just makes sure that it’s linguistically distinct.

[eyebreaker7]

Use of apostrophes in fantasy names is punishable by being kicked out of even your own game at your own house because everybody used up all tolerance for that decades ago.

But what if he is a drow? Like the Drizz't example given by AvatarVecna?

[AvatarVecna]

But what if he is a drow? Like the Drizz't example given by AvatarVecna?

I imagine Drizz't is exactly the kind of thing they're talking about being tired of - not the character specifically, but the billion wannabe clones he inspired that OotS parodied early on: the apparent entire subrace of CG dual-wielding drow lashing out at the yoke of the matriarchy, all with names that have way too many Zs and X's and apostrophes. That's the uninspired nonsense that makes people less patient for punctuated names.

[eyebreaker7]

Yea I gave up on Drizzt's books a long time ago. He's another god in the realms like Elminster.
I do love the drow though. And the ranger class. We're looking at making a 2-handed ranger class. Like the ranged bonuses but for melee. Not the usual dual wielding drow ranger Drizzt wana be.
I love the drow because they have dark skin which works great for hiding (at least they SHOULD get a bonus to hide but don't) and awesome ranged darkvision. Plus a couple innate abilities & Spell resistance.

[Asmotherion]

Step 1: see if there is an existing language for the race you want to play. Otherwise use an existing Fantasy Language translator for a Language that's Close enough.

Step 2: Choose a cuple of words that fit the character consept and translate them. See if they sound cool. If not, repeat until satisfied.

Step 3: See the format for a typical name in the race, and use that format.

Optionally skip all steps and just use whatever you like the sound of.

[KillianHawkeye]

To use a reverse example, imagine if some dude named Smithson was having his name translated into Japanese. "Smith" probably has its own symbol, and "son" probably has its own symbol, but normally when they're put together, they would say "the blacksmith's son", which isn't Smithson's name. So some kind of Japanese punctuation might be necessary to make sure that the name was read as "Smithson" by somebody reading the Japanese symbols - and to that native speaker, it would read a lot like "Smith-son" or "Smith'son" or something to that effect.

(all of this is just my best guess at why this is done in general. I might be totally off-base.)


I’m familiar with conversions of English names into Asian characters, and what we only rarely break last names and such by meaning. Mostly, we use characters that sound similar and string them together. It’s usually absolutely meaningless, but that just makes sure that it’s linguistically distinct.

Yeah, if it were one of the Chinese languages, it would be more like what he posted, but Japanese has specific syllabic characters that get used for foreign words.

"Smithson" would probably be written using the katakana "Su Mi Su So N" and would have no chance of being misunderstood as the son of the local blacksmith. And "Mr. Smith" would be translated as Sumisuson-san, which I find hilarious. :smallamused:

[NotASpiderSwarm]

D&D is a derivative of LOTR, so the traditional solution is to go back to the worldbuilding, develop the individual languages and dialects for each race/region/culture, and then bring those dialects forward to the point where the story begins. From that, you should be able to work out the rules that govern how each character would spell their name.

(lol)

Seriously, there's 2 keys. First off, what makes sense as an in-universe way of recording your char's name? If they have to sign papers to enter a city, what do they put down in the "Please Print Name" box? Second, what will you remember how to spell?

If you want apostrophes in the name, why? What happened with their language to make that common? Do they indicate a pause, a glottal stop, a vowel? If you can answer those questions, and remember the name, then go for it. Otherwise, maybe an odd use of y would work better.

And hey, anything you come up with has to be better than X Æ A-12.

[Gavinfoxx]

The use of an apostrophe in a name is to note a removed syllable. You should know what the long version is before putting an apostrophe in it.

[An Enemy Spy]

An apostrophe generally represents letters that have been removed from the word. An example I just thought of is from Halo where the Sangheili have an apostrophe on their last names(Thel 'Vadam). While the lore never goes into detail explaining this, you can easily understand that the apostrophe is standing in for the word 'of', as in Thel of Vadam. If you can't think of why to use an apostrophe, you likely don't need one. But if you want to use them go ahead, it's not like some language professor is going to stop by your gaming group and give you bad marks for your naming conventions.

[Asmotherion]

Yeah, if it were one of the Chinese languages, it would be more like what he posted, but Japanese has specific syllabic characters that get used for foreign words.

"Smithson" would probably be written using the katakana "Su Mi Su So N" and would have no chance of being misunderstood as the son of the local blacksmith. And "Mr. Smith" would be translated as Sumisuson-san, which I find hilarious. :smallamused:

I think it would be more accurate as す　み　つ　そ　ん　Or　 す　み　ず　そ　ん

Su Mi Tsu So N　/ Su Mi Zu So N

Though, it would be in Katakana rather than Hiragana as it is a Foreign Name. I just don't know Katakana yet :'(

[rel]

In my experience, if I've created a name long enough to require punctuation then no one is going to remember it and the name will be given a monosyllabic replacement in short order.

If pressed I use a dash to break up problematic portmanteau names e.g. 'Fire-eye' and very occasionally a period to emphasise a very hard stop or break e.g. 'Snuff. Finder'. In both cases this is to aid in consistent pronunciation.

If you want to create names without a strong theme, pick short, snappy and distinctive sounds that don't resemble distracting existing words or concepts.

[Rynjin]

Use of apostrophes in fantasy names is punishable by being kicked out of even your own game at your own house because everybody used up all tolerance for that decades ago.

I think it's perfectly acceptable if using inspiration from cultures that actually do that. Eg. I have a character named Farrukh Al'Khatel in a game set in Greyhawk, because he's Kettite, a fairly Arabic themed area.

On the other hand, I would guarantee you anybody showing up to any game I've ever played in with a character named "Shebdel List-Nemon" would be rechristened "Lemon" within 5 minutes of game start.

[Eldan]

There are legitimate uses of apostrophes in transcribing foreign languages (or sometimes English). Apart from the previously mentioned missing letters, could be to mark a stop in some languages, like in Hawai'i. That's a thing I know from at least Polynesian languages and Arabic.

Of course, most fantasy writers, especially mediocre ones, don't study linguistics and probably don't know what a glottal stop is, so they just throw in apostrophes to look cool.

[D+1]

But what if he is a drow? Like the Drizz't example given by AvatarVecna?That is the very point.

Edit:
Really I'm only half joking. Some DM's are FAR too keen on the idea of using impossible to pronounce names with inexplicable punctuation just in an attempt to be wildly exotic or different. It wears thin. RAPIDLY. For every D'artagnen and Drizz't there's a dozen Tllim'pk'fal-wis'h'skeb's and similar unforgivable abominations. If you're going to use such naming conventions USE THEM SPARINGLY and you're not impressing anyone and not endearing yourself to anyone with your creativity if the name ends up unpronounceable just for the sake of being unpronounceable by others at the table.

So, no. Don't use apostrophes. There's no real reason Drizz't can't be spelled Drizzt And it often IS spelled without the ' you'll notice. There's reasons for that.

[Ashtagon]

For example the name Shebdel List-Nemon. How do I decide if it should be Shebdel List-Nemon or Shebdel List'Nemon or what? Is it a racial thing or a grammer thing or what?

For fantasy names, it's basically whatever the author thinks looks cool (see also Heavy Metal Umlaut (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeavyMetalUmlaut), Punctuation Shaker (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PunctuationShaker), and others).

In real life, a lot depends on the source language of the word...

In Hawai'ian, the apostrophe marks a glottal stop.

Various European languages uses umlauts and other diacritics to mark specific pronunciation of letters. Vietnamese takes this up to 11, and can have as many as three diacritics on a single letter. Diacritics are used in some transliteration schemes for Chinese to mark tones.

In Japanese, a dash can mark either a long vowel or a join between two components of a compound word, depending on the transliteration technique used. An apostrophe is sometimes used to mark a consonantal letter n.

Certain African languages, such as Kung (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C7%83Kung_languages), use apostrophes, question marks, exclamation marks, and others to variously represent glottal stops, tongue-clicks, and others.

In Turkish, an apostrophe is sometimes used to separate an apostrophe from any grammar-based inflection suffixes.

In Russian, an apostrophe is sometimes used to transliterate a hard sign or a soft sign.

[Unavenger]

Apostrophes in real-world languages usually have phonetic significance, for example the word "Tze'etza" has the apostrophe to show that it's one word, that's three syllables long, broken between the "e"s. Similarly, Ari'el and Ariel aren't pronounced the same, because the latter elides the gap between the second and third syllables.

The example you've given, "Shebel List-Nemon", probably doesn't need an apostophe, but the hyphen might be needed for a grammatical purpose, the same way you have a high-flying object rather than a high flying object.

Notably, Drizz't Do'urden actually needs the second apostrophe and might, depending on the pronunciation, need the first (Because "Drizzt" is actually pronouncible as one syllable, and "Dour-den" is pronouncable as two) so I have no actual problem with his name being spelled with the apostrophes.

[rel]

Something to note.
You aren't generally going to see a name written down in a roleplay. You're going to hear it spoken.

The GM has notes the players don't see. The players have names written in their backstories and on their character sheets and they will probably get summarized in the first session and referred to to guide characterisation by the player but not really read by anyone else.

How a name is spelt isn't important. How it's pronounced is.

[SpyOne]

For example the name Shebdel List-Nemon. How do I decide if it should be Shebdel List-Nemon or Shebdel List'Nemon or what? Is it a racial thing or a grammer thing or what?

How it should be written depends partly on how it is said, and partly on how it is constructed.
Usually, the apostrophe indicates,a vocal pause within the name. So Al Akbar sounds different from Al'akbar.
The hyphen usually indicates two words that are treated as one word. So Brian Taylor Thomas is three names, but Julia Louis-Dreyfus is two. He would be Mr. Thomas, she is Ms. Louis-Dreyfus.
And familiarly he would be Brian, she would be Julia, and James-Earl Jones would be James-Earl.