Nonstandard specific items

[Biggus]

In this thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?285801-Tippy-s-Terrifically-Terrible-Trial/page25), a former user of this site said the "MIC actually says explicitly that you can transplant special abilities from specific items to add to other items" in response to someone's question about whether you can make magic item sets (also from the MIC) from other item types, specifically whether you can make a Scorpion longsword rather than a Scorpion kama (MIC p.201).

However, they didn't specify where in the MIC it says this. Looking under "creating magic item sets" (p.226) it says:


If your character has a piece of a set, he can create [...] any other piece of the set using the normal magic item creation rules. [...] He might also add other properties to items in the set using the rules found in the Dungeon Master's Guide and on page 233 of this book.

On page 233, under "improving magic items" it says:


You can add new magical abilities to a magic item with virtually no restrictions [...] it's okay to add the power of boots of striding and springing to slippers of spider climbing

However, I can't find anything which mentions transplanting powers from magic item sets to different items specifically, or even anything about adding the powers of specific weapons/armor/shields (a Crystal Echoblade for example) to other types of item.

Have I missed something? If not, do you agree with the interpretation that the quotes above mean that the powers of specific weapons etc, including those from sets, can be added to different items?

[Nifft]

The Scorpion Kama's powers are related to Monk abilities. Longswords usually aren't related to Monk abilities.

If you're playing in a variant system where a longsword can become a Monk weapon, then I'd expect a DM would allow you to make a Scorpion Longsword.

If you're not, then I'd expect not.

[Rijan_Sai]

You can't exactly* take an existing scorpion kama and move the abilities to a longsword, but you could craft a new scorpion longsword, provided you have the prereq's (and DM permission, of course.)

*Artificer gets around this sort of, by using their Retain Essence ability to absorb some of the Xp from the kama, and reinvest (along with Craft Reserve) to make the new longsword.

[Jay R]

Ask your DM. You are in the area of DM judgment.

[Biggus]

Ask your DM. You are in the area of DM judgment.

I am the DM, I wanted to hear some different opinions about it before I decided whether to allow it. As far as I can see, a strict RAW interpretation of the sections I quoted probably says yes you can, but my feeling is that RAI is probably that you can't. Also I'm a bit concerned there may be balance issues from allowing it (not the Scorpion longsword specifically, the general principle of allowing unique abilities to be transferred onto other types of items).

[InvisibleBison]

I am the DM, I wanted to hear some different opinions about it before I decided whether to allow it. As far as I can see, a strict RAW interpretation of the sections I quoted probably says yes you can, but my feeling is that RAI is probably that you can't. Also I'm a bit concerned there may be balance issues from allowing it (not the Scorpion longsword specifically, the general principle of allowing unique abilities to be transferred onto other types of items).

In actual play, neither RAW nor RAI matter. The only thing that matters is Rules As Everyone Agrees Makes For A Good Game*. If you think allowing a scorpion longsword is a good idea but allowing other variant or combo items isn't, let your players know and if they're on board just go with that.

*Though that's probably going to overlap with RAW and/or RAI most of the time.

[NotASpiderSwarm]

It's probably fine. When it comes to melee weapons, the things that matter are:
Reach
If the char uses a special attack, does it work with that attack(disarm, flurry, threatens squares)
Is the char proficient
(there are exceptions, but those are the big options)

If the new weapon expands on those things, then it's at least worth questioning if it's broken. A Scorpion Longsword does not. In fact, since Monks are not generally proficient with Longswords, cannot use them in a Flurry, can't use them to Trip, and they're not finessable, a Scorpion Longsword is generally worse for almost all Monks. If you have a char that wants one for whatever reason, then I'd say allow it*. It's +1 damage, +1 crit range, and otherwise sucks.


*depending on how Magic Mart your setting is, of course, but that's an RP question, not a balance one

[Fizban]

The problem with treating any Specific magic item as if it was actually a flat priced property you can put on anything, is that sometimes those Specific weapons are being given effective price cuts or advantages (in particular, by not being priced as +'s), or only allowed to exist at all, because of the base weapon they're attached to. It'll never say explicitly, but just like any "too good to be true" idea, if it just seems so obvious that something would be better on a different type of weapon, you should stop to consider if that's exactly why it's on the worse weapon. Unique crit abilities on 19-20/x2 or 20/x2 weapons are one of the most obvious. Anything on a simple weapon like a club, mace, spear, or sling is likely suspect. Stuff found on one-handed or light weapons is often not very appropriate for a greatsword. And so on.

As for making a Scorpion Longsword: all normal monk weapons are d6/x2 or less. Longswords have more crit, a Scorpion Longsword is effectively putting stacking Keen on your "fists" in addition to the other benefits of using your unarmed damage without actually touching things. But since the monk has presumably paid something to get the longsword as a monk weapon, you might consider that a fair price for the crit boost, or various other justifications. Myself, if I wanted monk weapons to use unarmed damage I'd make that part of the class instead, so I'd probably not be using Scorpion Kamas at all, but if I did it would stay with the d6/x2 monk weapons.

Edit: I specifically double-checked d6/x2 and still typoed it at the end :smallfurious:

[Bohandas]

The Scorpion Kama's powers are related to Monk abilities. Longswords usually aren't related to Monk abilities.

The problem with treating any Specific magic item as if it was actually a flat priced property you can put on anything, is that sometimes those Specific weapons are being given effective price cuts or advantages (in particular, by not being priced as +'s), or only allowed to exist at all, because of the base weapon they're attached to. It'll never say explicitly, but just like any "too good to be true" idea, if it just seems so obvious that something would be better on a different type of weapon, you should stop to consider if that's exactly why it's on the worse weapon. Unique crit abilities on 19-20/x2 or 20/x2 weapons are one of the most obvious. Anything on a simple weapon like a club, mace, spear, or sling is likely suspect. Stuff found on one-handed or light weapons is often not very appropriate for a greatsword. And so on.


So would that get the "uncustomary space limitation" price hike then?
.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I don't see it as a problem.

I mean, the morphing and sizing properties exist, so if you want your scorpion kama to be a scorpion longsword, you can either toss the scorpion property onto a longsword (which the MIC allows), or if the DM doesn't want that, you can still get it if you turn it into a kama; it just costs a little more. Or vastly less overall, if you turn it into a shuriken first for the 1/50 cost reduction on further enhancements.

[Vrock Bait]

I don't see it as a problem.

I mean, the morphing and sizing properties exist, so if you want your scorpion kama to be a scorpion longsword, you can either toss the scorpion property onto a longsword (which the MIC allows), or if the DM doesn't want that, you can still get it if you turn it into a kama; it just costs a little more. Or vastly less overall, if you turn it into a shuriken first for the 1/50 cost reduction on further enhancements.

You’re entering Rules As Will Get Everyone To Hit You Upside The Head.

[Fizban]

So would that get the "uncustomary space limitation" price hike then?
No, those are for effects being put on uncustomary spaces, the rules/guidelines for which are truly intended (by their actual effect) to force some choices between this or that item due to slot limitations, and can be used by writers to make items that are not supposed to be used together.

This is a root question of whether the DM says yes or not. If want to use +50% as your standard price change for putting anything on anything, you can, but it won't work any better than any other guideline used as a rule- eventually you may find something where it turns out the "rule" isn't good enough.

The "nuclear" example is the Manyfang Dagger. It deals 4x damage on every hit, for not more than the normal cost of a +4 weapon. I think it's pretty clear it shouldn't exist at all, but even if it's actually considered okay for a dagger, only the most damage-happy will agree that it's okay as a flat cost addition to a greatsword.

[Troacctid]

Has nobody answered the OP's original question yet?

The following suits of armor and shields are usually constructed with exactly the properties described here. You can increase the enhancement bonus of these armors and shields or add more special properties, just as you would for any other item.

The following weapons are usually constructed with the properties described here. You can increase the enhancement bonus of these weapons or add more special properties just as you would for any other item.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Has nobody answered the OP's original question yet?

You've got it backwards. Those quotes are talking about adding generic magical properties to a specific magic item (e.g. flaming burst added to scorpion kama yields flaming burst scorpion kama). The OP is asking about adding/transferring specific magic item properties to generic magic items (e.g. scorpion kama added to +1 longsword yields +1 scorpion longsword).