(3.5) Making a blind swordsman character

[booliusdoolius]

Hey all, I've been wanting to do a character based off Zatoichi. He was a blind swordsman from Japan, and I've been trying to think of how to build him. Is there a way to make yourself blind but be able hear or smell when an enemy is near? I think he would have the Blind-Fight feat, but idk what other feats he'd have. Also, how would I build this character? Thanks all.

[Piggy Knowles]

Warblade is probably the easiest way to do this. Via stances a warblade can have the scent special ability at level 1 and blindsense as early as level 9. Warblades also get a ton of maneuvers that are perfect for a swordsman. You'll definitely be nerfing yourself a bit by being actually blind, as even with blindsense and Blind-Fight you're still taking on miss chances and unable to do things like charge or sneak attack, but you can make up for it a bit by utilizing smoke, darkness and other effects that hinder vision.

[booliusdoolius]

Warblade is probably the easiest way to do this. Via stances a warblade can have the scent special ability at level 1 and blindsense as early as level 9. Warblades also get a ton of maneuvers that are perfect for a swordsman. You'll definitely be nerfing yourself a bit by being actually blind, as even with blindsense and Blind-Fight you're still taking on miss chances and unable to do things like charge or sneak attack, but you can make up for it a bit by utilizing smoke, darkness and other effects that hinder vision.

What about a Samurai or Swordsage maybe?

[Piggy Knowles]

Swordsage would also work fairly well, with access to the same stances that will help make up for your blindness (hunter's sense and hearing the air). I usually prefer warblades, but that's a decent option too.

Samurai is a bit of a trap, though. It doesn't add anything that would help you out as a blind swordsman and it's strictly worse than just going with straight fighter.

[Segev]

Swordsage would also work fairly well, with access to the same stances that will help make up for your blindness (hunter's sense and hearing the air). I usually prefer warblades, but that's a decent option too.

Samurai is a bit of a trap, though. It doesn't add anything that would help you out as a blind swordsman and it's strictly worse than just going with straight fighter.

There's the grimlock (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/grimlock.htm) monster, which by default has an ECL of 4 (2 RHD, +2 LA), but which if you can swing it past your DM is recommended by people on this forum to be just 2 RHD with no LA (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=21657828&postcount=1134). You could possibly refluff it as a human in terms of looks and ancestry, just using the grimlock for stats.

[daremetoidareyo]

Hidden talent synesthete should help with a combat or two. Pair with warblade for scent. Focused perception (complete psionic) will give you blindsight 60 for a round when you expend your psionic focus. I'd ask that blindness count as a flaw or two so you can pick up blindsight, hidden talent and focused perception all at first level.

An azurin can take soulsight at first level for blindsight 5 that detects living creatures as a move action.

If you're evil, willing deformity forked tongue gives you blindsight 30. And you can take it first level as a human.

[DeTess]

Thing is, even with scent or blindsense, you'd have a 50% miss chance against all opponents (25% if you had blindfight as you get a reroll). I think the best way to make this work without mechanically crippling yourself is to simply fluff your character as 'blind' but not actually mechanically enforcing blindness. Your characters hearing/smell whatever is simply good enough that you function as well as a sighted individual (but not better).

[The Viscount]

Might get some use out of Blindfold of True Darkness, which gives you blindsight but denies normal sight.

[Telonius]

I'd suggest that you consider just how much you want your character to be handicapped by blindness. The other posters have mentioned several ways to give yourself abilities similar to sight. But if you jump through all the mechanical hoops to get them, you end up with a character that has something pretty darn close to normal sight - when you could have just played a sighted character to begin with.

If you can get a handle on how much you want this to hurt him, you can optimize to that level.

If you do want to play a straight-up blind character, I'd talk to the DM about it and see what he could work out. The "Murky-Eyed" flaw, for example, is not nearly as bad as actual blindness, and would give you a bonus feat. Actual blindness (that you don't take any steps to mitigate) would probably be worth a lot more than that.

[Segev]

I'd suggest that you consider just how much you want your character to be handicapped by blindness. The other posters have mentioned several ways to give yourself abilities similar to sight. But if you jump through all the mechanical hoops to get them, you end up with a character that has something pretty darn close to normal sight - when you could have just played a sighted character to begin with.

If you can get a handle on how much you want this to hurt him, you can optimize to that level.

If you do want to play a straight-up blind character, I'd talk to the DM about it and see what he could work out. The "Murky-Eyed" flaw, for example, is not nearly as bad as actual blindness, and would give you a bonus feat. Actual blindness (that you don't take any steps to mitigate) would probably be worth a lot more than that.

The reason I recommend the Grimlock is because there really is no way to get "recompense" for blindness in D&D 3.5e. So my first instinct was to say, "Play him as normal, and just say he's blind but has special techniques that let him act like he can see." I understand why that's unsatisfying, though: from the ability to read and tell colors to the vulnerability to gaze attacks and the dependency on light, that's not really fitting the fantasy well.

A "blind swordsman" usually has the conceit of being so good with his other senses that it doesn't interfere with mobility and basic primary perception. He knows where enemies are, he doesn't trip over tables, etc. This is, essentially, blindsight.

However, real weaknesses of blindness to still apply: he can't read (unless it's braille and he is literate in that); he can't see colors; he can't tell if it's light or dark unless there's heat associated with the light. There are likely other elements I'm forgetting. There are also real strengths to "sight without seeing," such as functioning just fine in the dark. Or immunity to visual illusions. Or safety from gaze attacks.

Blindsight and blindness combined give this. The Grimlock could be refluffed as 2 "levels" of "blind warrior." It has some stat boosts over basic human that are pretty good, but hey, that doesn't HURT the impression of a powerful warrior.

This gives you the actual blindness effects and a solid advantage in return, balances it with some levels, and lets you run whatever class(es) you want for the "swordsman" side after ECL 2.

[Psyren]

I would use psionics for this concept, relying on powers like Synesthete or Touchsight to overcome my condition when a fight breaks out. Unlike blindsense, those both allow you to pinpoint your enemies with enough precision to have no miss chance. Synesthete in particular lasts long enough that it could be active for multiple combats, especially if you Extend it. Builds for this could include Seer/Ranger/Slayer, or Psychic Warrior 20.

I would definitely talk my GM into eventually letting me Incarnate one or both of these though.

[nijineko]

I would use psionics for this concept, relying on powers like Synesthete or Touchsight to overcome my condition when a fight breaks out. Unlike blindsense, those both allow you to pinpoint your enemies with enough precision to have no miss chance. Synesthete in particular lasts long enough that it could be active for multiple combats, especially if you Extend it. Builds for this could include Seer/Ranger/Slayer, or Psychic Warrior 20.

I would definitely talk my GM into eventually letting me Incarnate one or both of these though.

+1 on these options.

Depending on how eclectic you wish to be, mindsight and the mindspy prestige might be an interesting if somewhat tricky to actually add on option.

[Biggus]

If you're evil, willing deformity forked tongue gives you blindsight 30. And you can take it first level as a human.

Only blindsense, sadly. Combined with Blind-Fight it's a good start for a 1st-level character though.

If 3.0 material is allowed, there's a feat called Blindsight, 5ft Radius in Sword and Fist (and Deities and Demigods). It requires Wis 19 though, which is a bit of a problem for your average low-level martial type...

[Saintheart]

Beguiler 1/Duskblade 4/Mindbender 1/Warblade 1/Jade Phoenix Mage, advancing Duskblade casting?

Mindsight as suggested to look a lot like or duplicate blind-fighting at Mindbender 1, and then spam True Strike to get over the concealment problems?

[Esprit15]

Keen Eared Scout also deserves a mention.

[ccflier]

+1 for the blindfold of true darkness. Note that the 60 ft range means you will be destroyed by anything with ranged attacks, but will maximize roleplayability. Ask your DM if you can have it permanently, instead of magic item effect. Maybe decrease the range to 30 ft, or even add limits like tremorsense to increase range a little. Im thinking toph from avatar the last airbender. You would "feel" when an enemy is close, but only if they are on the ground. This is a huge character flaw, so try to get something out of it equivalent to more than one feat, sense the book has flaws that are literally just a -4 to checks
Either way, ask your party if they would be okay covering for this flaw. Make sure you are okay with it too.

[Gruftzwerg]

Maybe have a look at Shadow Sun Ninja (SSN).
While it doesn't fit the theme for 100% it is still related imho.

The Darkness within Light would come in handy. Every time you and your target count or are blinded, you may ignore the effect of your blindness and even get a +4 bonus on attacks and dmg.
You can either close your eyes willingly to count as blind or be really bind for this ability.
Imho this ability fits Zatoichi very well, since on several occasions he tries to trap his enemies in fights of darkness to get the edge with his trained blindness.

And a question that emerges is: Does he need to start blind at lvl1?
I mean, if you can talk to your DM, you could become blind later. At a point where you have more options against the drawbacks.
Or you just lie to everyone else (roleplay) that you are blind while you are not really. You are just very skilled without sight and have a hang to play the blind, to mislead everybody.

edit: SSN would also be a good prc that fits swordsage which you seem to be interested in. Maybe this is a good reason to go SSN.

[Jowgen]

Keen Eared Scout also deserves a mention.

I second this.

Boosting your listen checks is relatively simple, and the feat makes you an intel gathering machine.

Have your blindness be the result of a Bestow Curse or other persistent magical effect, and then pick up Mageslayer + Pierce Magical Concealment as to negate the misschance (note, they are Fighter Bonus feats per the table).

Invest in a custom item of conituous joyful noise to avoid being tripped up by magical Silence.

I feel this method is the most faithful to the flavour you want to go for. No magical gimmicks, just super attuned sense that let the character fight better than most sighted people.

[ShurikVch]

Unseelie Fey template may give Blindsight:
The creature lacks eyes but has blindsight 30 ft.

[el minster]

scouts give blindsense and blindsight automatically

[zlefin]

there's a feat for very short range 5' blindsight if you max your wisdom; can be picked up at lvl 4
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#blindsight5FtRadius

[redking]

Blind Fighter from Dark Sun Prestige Class Appendix, Volume II from Athas dot org (http://www.athas.org/products/prc2/documents/17). Semi official content for 3.5e.

http://arena.athas.org/uploads/default/original/1X/85e8ca0618f055057a4ed8a6024b11a968d7f233.jpeg
http://arena.athas.org/uploads/default/original/1X/d3a407847278f209799bd8e8a132a0bd825a6ce7.jpeg
http://arena.athas.org/uploads/default/original/1X/d6e40f67c6b7ebdf205ec692e03c15504689d958.jpeg

[TheCount]

there is also the Blindsighted (MIC, p29) weapon special ability, for +2.

[Crake]

for melee without reach, blindsight 5ft radius combined with hearing the air is my personal favourite combination. It allows you to sense which squares enemies are in from 30ft, and pinpoint them when you're in range to attack them.

[DrMartin]

How about a different approach to this.

Your character is blind, yes, but is a hero and exceptional and has learned how to deal with it. He gets no fixed, mechanical penalties for being blind. When you, as a player, include a complication stemming from his blindness, you get some bonus XP or a hero point or a cookie or whatever kind of positive reinforcement reward you usually distribute at your table.

anyway: talk to your GM

[GrayDeath]

If youa re open to Homebrew, a little while ago I built and posted a Blind Warrior class in the Homebrew Forum.

Have a look: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?546625-The-Blind-Warrior-a-Blind-Martial-Initiator&highlight=Blind


Aside from that, sadly I ahve to agree. A fully blind character without massive compensation is too handicaped in D&D to make a really effective Fighting Anything.
SOme Psionic/Magic Classes work with that however, so...

[Psyren]

How about a different approach to this.

Your character is blind, yes, but is a hero and exceptional and has learned how to deal with it. He gets no fixed, mechanical penalties for being blind. When you, as a player, include a complication stemming from his blindness, you get some bonus XP or a hero point or a cookie or whatever kind of positive reinforcement reward you usually distribute at your table.

anyway: talk to your GM

This begs the question of why everyone wouldn't play blind characters as an on-demand source of hero points (or cookies) since they have the freedom of choosing when the condition matters.

Which is not to say that I don't like the idea (the rules even say that characters who are blind for a long time should be able to overcome some of the penalties), but I don't think the player should have sole jurisdiction as to when their handicap is, well, a handicap.

[Batcathat]

This begs the question of why everyone wouldn't play blind characters as an on-demand source of hero points (or cookies) since they have the freedom of choosing when the condition matters.

Which is not to say that I don't like the idea (the rules even say that characters who are blind for a long time should be able to overcome some of the penalties), but I don't think the player should have sole jurisdiction as to when their handicap is, well, a handicap.

I agree. If the OP want to use this idea it might be better to decide in advance what sort of situation might be an issue (the blind character probably can't read, can't recognize colors, etc.)

[DrMartin]

This begs the question of why everyone wouldn't play blind characters as an on-demand source of hero points (or cookies) since they have the freedom of choosing when the condition matters.

well, maybe they want to play different characters :D and implementing a system that rewards their characters quirks and "drawbacks" (don't really like that word, I feel there has to be a better one for this idea) is a good way to have them think about such aspects of their character when they create one - which is a good thing in my experience (I use a similar system at my table, and player's buy-in as been good so far!)

The player is not the only one that should decide when the condition matters, I worded it wrongly. The GM should definitely chime in - think compelling an aspect in Fate, or a GM intrusion in Numenera, or getting Karma in Ninja Crusade, or any other of the dozens of game that use similar systems - but in my experience the GM has a lot of things to keep track on, and leaving it in the hand of the players is a good way to make sure that this character's aspect pops up regularly at the table.

other players should also be able to chime in, if your table spins that way - every group and every player is different, and in same cases is seen as stepping over a boundary, especially if the base system does not account for this kind of "intrusions".


Which is not to say that I don't like the idea (the rules even say that characters who are blind for a long time should be able to overcome some of the penalties), but I don't think the player should have sole jurisdiction as to when their handicap is, well, a handicap.


I agree. If the OP want to use this idea it might be better to decide in advance what sort of situation might be an issue (the blind character probably can't read, can't recognize colors, etc.)

Yes, definitely! You are playing a blind character: the story you are telling needs to make sense with this. So talk with your GM beforehand, and write down some things that will definitely be problematic for you.

Also maybe go read Daredevil and write down some situations that one would think would be problematic for a superhuman blind person, but they are really not :D