Priest Progress Plan (PrCs Dips & Feats)

[MR_Anderson]

I am looking to provide some good recommendations to one of my players for additional Prestige Classes and Feats to add to his character.

Let me lay out the entire picture, what he wants, and what I would like to see.


Base Class
He is playing a Priest, which is a 3rd party class that I approved which changes up the standard Cleric class.

Pros:. He gains up to two additional spells per day at each spell level.

Cons:. 1D4 for Hit Points at each level, Proficient in Light Armor only, Proficient in Simple Weapons only.

He is a Priest of Bacchus (god of the party) where they are a hidden religion that is gaining power within a kingdom’s capital.

The intentions are to Prestige Class into Contemplative (Complete Divine) at earliest chance and do all 10 levels. He’s selected channeling Positive Energy.

Character Goals: Spend time in service to the big party in the sky with his god. Become an outsider. Be a party animal.

Campaign Info
Think of the campaign as a cross between eyes wide shut, the matrix, and usual suspects. Where the players are seeking revenge for what was done to their different families by two individuals that are the tip of an iceberg of a secret society.

The campaign is gearing up towards playing out as an espionage / strategic political positioning game with stealth and subterfuge.

There is going to be an unexpected turn as they chase their nemeses and end in space and expand into a Spelljammer campaign.

Party Make Up
Players are all male humans, as there are no other humanoids on the planet. Think of it just like ancient earth.

The Party is also entirely neutral ranging from LN to CN. While they don’t want to be Good aligned characters, they already know they certainly don’t like Evil.

Other Party Members
Fighter - The Muscle
Fighter - The Tactician
Rogue - The Skills (w/minor psychic powers)
Wizard - The Thinker (Geometer/Rune Scribe)
Multi Classed Caster* (Special)


NPCs
Elvish Druid - Will enter after party is 5th level or above and assist in the transition to a Spacejammer campaign since space travel and other beings are not known to 99.9% of the inhabitants of the planet.


* - Basically Bard/Sorcerer/Spellthief/Knight of the Weave/Sublime Chord level looping tricks to be abused by Reserves of Strength Feat. Player wanted to be a Bard and Sorcerer, but I wasn’t going to let him be underpowered, so I told him I knew some tricks to make it all work out at higher levels for him.

What I would like to see as the DM
Knowing what the characters are going to face and the limitations outside the Spheres in Spelljammer, I would like if there was a Prestige Class or Feat that would help with the following.


Give the ability to have some spells as Arcane not just completely Divine
Gives ability to have more than 13 Ranks in “Knowledge (Religion)” prior to 10th level
Double the power of Turning Undead or completely Replace it.
Must maintain “+1 Caster Level” at each level, because there will be a hard level cap of 20th with one additional level of XP to burn for level 10+ spells.
Ship related as Spelljammers are ships, and they’ll be space sailing often.
I am also open to other recommendations.


I would prefer that recommendations be from the Wizard’s publications, but there technically isn’t Spelljammer for D&D 3rd Edition so I am flexible.


I appreciate any assistance!

[Telonius]

"Gives ability to have more than 13 Ranks in “Knowledge (Religion)” prior to 10th level"

Is this for prereq purposes (i.e. he needs to actually have 14 ranks on his character sheet)? If not, something like an Item Familiar would work. Otherwise, this thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?320198-is-there-any-way-to-have-more-than-3-LV-ranks-in-a-skill) has some ideas. Note that this all assumes a very high amount of cheese tolerance. There are very few rules in 3.5 that are actually hard-and-fast; "level +3 skill ranks limit" is one that comes pretty close.

[Kayblis]

As a baseline, he got a pretty great deal out of that 3rd party variant. The extra spells are amazing, and he's basically trading off what you'd normally trade with Cloystered Cleric while gaining much more than usual. Well, for your points:

Arcane/Divine spells - If you're completely adamant about never losing a spellcasting level, your only option is the Arcane Domain from Complete Mage. It lets you pick spells from an arcane class list as your domain spells, so you'll get one per level. If you can afford to pick one arcane spellcasting level, you can then pick the Alternative Source Spell feat, which lets you more freely exchange them from Arcane to Divine and vice versa. You can search for the name on google, it's the first result.

Max Ranks - That's another hard one, the only traditional way to break the cap is through the Primary Contract feat which raises your maximum skill rank cap by one, for one skill. That's 2 feats for a 1 level early entry. Usually not worth it, but depends on your build.

Turn Undead - You can pick Devotion Feats which let you burn Turn attempts to generate special effects. They're from Complete Champion. Alternatively, Divine Metamagic lets you burn Turn attempts to pay for metamagic. It's the basis for the Persistomancer, a cleric with great 1round/lv buffs that lasts all day through Persist Spell. If that's not your thing, you could always invest tons of money into turning boosting items, and the Sun Domain along with the Radiant Servant of Pelor(reskinned with DM approval) makes Turning Undead good again.

Maintaining spellcasting - You can afford to lose up to 3 spellcasting levels and still get 9th-level spells by 20. I won't say losing these 3 levels doesn't hurt, but it's a tradeoff you're able to do if you really want something. That ties directly to my suggestion on Arcane/Divine spells.

Edit: Note that all these suggestions assume the standard, mid-op level of play. I don't take the "turning into a creature like the Barghest, gaining HD through its special abilities, and then getting virtual levels and ranks exactly at the time of level up" stuff seriously for actual games.

[MR_Anderson]

"Gives ability to have more than 13 Ranks in “Knowledge (Religion)” prior to 10th level"

Is this for prereq purposes (i.e. he needs to actually have 14 ranks on his character sheet)? If not, something like an Item Familiar would work. Otherwise, this thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?320198-is-there-any-way-to-have-more-than-3-LV-ranks-in-a-skill) has some ideas. Note that this all assumes a very high amount of cheese tolerance. There are very few rules in 3.5 that are actually hard-and-fast; "level +3 skill ranks limit" is one that comes pretty close.

Contemplative has a Prerequisite of 13 Ranks in “Knowledge (Religion)” which means normal earliest access is Level 1 Contemplative at Character Level 11, so you are absolutely correct, on the character sheet.

As the DM, I am not going to allow some of those really interesting but cheesy ways, to surpass max skill ranks.


As a baseline, he got a pretty great deal out of that 3rd party variant. The extra spells are amazing, and he's basically trading off what you'd normally trade with Cloystered Cleric while gaining much more than usual. Well, for your points:

Basically, he loses another dice for Hit Points down to D4, doesn’t add any access to different spells, and skill points was 2+Int if I remember correctly, so it is all about the spell casting.


Arcane/Divine spells - If you're completely adamant about never losing a spellcasting level, your only option is the Arcane Domain from Complete Mage. It lets you pick spells from an arcane class list as your domain spells, so you'll get one per level. If you can afford to pick one arcane spellcasting level, you can then pick the Alternative Source Spell feat, which lets you more freely exchange them from Arcane to Divine and vice versa. You can search for the name on google, it's the first result.

The Alternate Source Spell Feat is perfect, and I’ll pitch it to him tomorrow and see if he like it. Basically he’ll be able to go Mystic Theurge for 6 levels. (5th-10th Level). And only lose one level of Clerical progression.


Max Ranks - That's another hard one, the only traditional way to break the cap is through the Primary Contract feat which raises your maximum skill rank cap by one, for one skill. That's 2 feats for a 1 level early entry. Usually not worth it, but depends on your build.

What do you think if a Wish spell was used to increase ranks? How many ranks would that be?


Turn Undead - You can pick Devotion Feats which let you burn Turn attempts to generate special effects. They're from Complete Champion. Alternatively, Divine Metamagic lets you burn Turn attempts to pay for metamagic. It's the basis for the Persistomancer, a cleric with great 1round/lv buffs that lasts all day through Persist Spell. If that's not your thing, you could always invest tons of money into turning boosting items, and the Sun Domain along with the Radiant Servant of Pelor(reskinned with DM approval) makes Turning Undead good again.

I like the idea of him dropping his reliance on turn undead, because it will mean they’ll seek out a NPC cleric for turning, which will help with options. I need to look into the Persist Build. I’ve seen it in passing, but haven’t had the chance to look into it.


Maintaining spellcasting - You can afford to lose up to 3 spellcasting levels and still get 9th-level spells by 20. I won't say losing these 3 levels doesn't hurt, but it's a tradeoff you're able to do if you really want something. That ties directly to my suggestion on Arcane/Divine spells.

He will need to hit 9th level spells by 18th level, because that will make 10th level spells at 20th level.


Edit: Note that all these suggestions assume the standard, mid-op level of play. I don't take the "turning into a creature like the Barghest, gaining HD through its special abilities, and then getting virtual levels and ranks exactly at the time of level up" stuff seriously for actual games.

I absolutely agree, it needs to not be based on temporary effects, but they do make for interesting conversations. Funny thing is, I am allowing Level Looping as the DM in this campaign; matter of fact, I’m mandating a player do it.

Both of your responses were very helpful.