Martial Study: Moment of Perfect Mind. Is it worth the feat?

[Evoker]

What it says on the tin. Is taking martial study for Moment of Perfect Mind (1/encounter use concentration check instead of will save) worth the feat on a character who's going to have a very bad will save? Worth noting that martial study makes the appropriate skill a class skill, so it's easy to max the ranks. On the up side, that gives an effective will saving throw of +3+level+con mod. On the down side, it's only once per encounter, and if I were to pick it up with a dip later, I would have an option for actual in-combat recovery.

[el minster]

Is it likely you would dip Warblade/Swordsage?

[NotASpiderSwarm]

Level 5 is where I'd say it becomes a big deal to have access to this. Before that point, a lot of the will saves are pretty meh effects. That said, the bonus is VERY significant, and it will be a while before you need to save more than once per encounter. Personally, I'd say skip the feat and just dip early, but that's mostly because feats are so rare.
Assuming bad Will save and +0 Wis, maxed ranks Conc and +2 Con, and a save DC of common spell level+3(+4 after lvl 4):
Level/Will/Conc/Save
1/0/6/14
2/0/7/14
3/1/8/15
4/1/9/16
5/1/10/17
6/2/11/17



Don't forget that you need to invest the skill ranks as you level, or plan to spend a couple levels after you dip putting ALL your skill points into the Concentration skill.

[Evoker]

Oh wait. Looking at the Novice Ring of the Diamond mind, that grants access to any Diamond mind maneuver up to IL 3, but does not specify a recovery method. Does that function like the martial study feat, require you to have a recovery method, or even not need to be recovered? It's unclear.

As far as dips go, I was going to dip a level of warblade at level 9, so that I can pick up Iron Heart Surge with just a single level, because initiator level includes half your level in non-initiator classes. So it mostly comes down to how much I want it before level 9, and how much my starting level in a class that wouldn't have concentration naturally would hurt (-2 to max ranks, I believe?)

[el minster]

I say get a magic item that boosts Will saves until you take the dip.

[Icewraith]

Once you get a few levels under your belt, you start running into things like Gauths (CR 6) and Mind Flayers (CR 8) with significant (Sleep Ray as the spell only no HD limit, will dc 14 negates) will-save-or-lose (Mind Blast Stun for 3d4 rounds, will DC ...16? IIRC negates) effects. Even if you only buy yourself a round before you get hit with the same effect, it’s still an extra round to contribute.

If you do run into the Gauth, don’t burn the maneuver early on the Inflict Ray, which is also a Will save.

[Gruftzwerg]

Oh wait. Looking at the Novice Ring of the Diamond mind, that grants access to any Diamond mind maneuver up to IL 3, but does not specify a recovery method. Does that function like the martial study feat, require you to have a recovery method, or even not need to be recovered? It's unclear.

It works as Martial Study. If you have recovery, you can use it. If not, you are down to 1/encounter.

[DeTess]

The maneuver is only really good with a significant investment in concentration, so if concentration isn't a class skill for the class you're taking before the dip, you should take it early just to have it as a skill.

It should be noted that the maneuver from the feat wills tart using the recovery method from your dip the moment you make the dip (and from that point onward it will also need to be prepared as normal).

[Kelb_Panthera]

It should be noted that the maneuver from the feat wills tart using the recovery method from your dip the moment you make the dip (and from that point onward it will also need to be prepared as normal).

That's explicitly not true. Any maneuvers you gain before you gain a recovery method simply cannot be recovered except by ending the encounter. Pg 32 in the description of martial study.

[Evoker]

So I'm seeing a somewhat mixed response, but it seems to me that the best option is probably: Don't pick up the feat, but get that 3,000 GP magic item that can grant it roughly ASAP, level 4 or 5 (I'm playing a totemist for most of my levels, so magic weapons are less of a concern, as a point of essentia will make my attacks magic). That way, I get it once per encounter from level 4/5 to 9, at which point I can recover it with the standard warblade recovery. Are there any major problems with this plan? Worth noting is except for the first level dip in barbarian, all of the classes I'm planning on taking get concentration as a class skill, so I can make up the skill gap quickly. And I shouldn't mind having one of my ring slots taken up by what's effectively plus lots to my will save.

[DeTess]

That's explicitly not true. Any maneuvers you gain before you gain a recovery method simply cannot be recovered except by ending the encounter. Pg 32 in the description of martial study.

Huh, you're right. I could have sworn the opposite was true, but the feat does make it pretty explicit. Though I would point out that there's some text later in the book that suggests differently. For example, the text on maneuver recovery only calls out the case where someone has martial study and no martial adept levels at all as only recovering at the end of the encounter, and maneuver readying only has a special case in case you have the martial study feat, but no martial adept levels.

I'd say this is a potential rules dysfunction, and might require a chat with your DM.

[NotASpiderSwarm]

So I'm seeing a somewhat mixed response, but it seems to me that the best option is probably: Don't pick up the feat, but get that 3,000 GP magic item that can grant it roughly ASAP, level 4 or 5 (I'm playing a totemist for most of my levels, so magic weapons are less of a concern, as a point of essentia will make my attacks magic). That way, I get it once per encounter from level 4/5 to 9, at which point I can recover it with the standard warblade recovery. Are there any major problems with this plan? Worth noting is except for the first level dip in barbarian, all of the classes I'm planning on taking get concentration as a class skill, so I can make up the skill gap quickly. And I shouldn't mind having one of my ring slots taken up by what's effectively plus lots to my will save.

One small point: You can't use the Conc skill while you're Raging. Now, Rage gives your normal Will +2, and most encounters you won't be Raging, but it's worth remembering for when you're facing scary will-based oppts.