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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Minor changes to Arcane Archer (PEACH)



heavyfuel
2020-05-19, 11:36 AM
The Arcane Archer is considered a pretty bad class. With only 2 arcane shots per rest, whose damage increase only at 18th level!

I had an idea on how to make the class suck a bit less with just a few minor changes, making the archetype share some traits with Hank from the D&D cartoon and Magick Archers from the Dragon's Dogma videogame:

Energy Arrow: At 3rd level, you can choose to remove the string of any bow in your posession with a Use an Item action. When unstrung, simply drawing your fingers in the air near the bow causes it to be strung with an arrow of glimmering energy. These energy arrows are treated, in all ways, as regular arrows, except they disappear one round after you shoot them. These arrows are treated as magical for the purposes of overcomming damage resistance.

Unerring Shot: At 7th level, when your bow is unstrung, you can use your action to shoot unerring missiles of force. This works exactly like a Magic Missile spell cast as a 1st-level spell. Increase the spell level by 1, firing one additional missile, at 10th, 15th, and 18th level

Arcane Shot: At 7th, 10th, 15th, and 18th level, you gain an additional Arcane Shot use per short or long rest.

Nifft
2020-05-19, 02:46 PM
The Arcane Archer is considered a pretty bad class.

It is?

Can you link the discussion?

I've seen mostly the opposite view expressed.

heavyfuel
2020-05-19, 03:23 PM
It is?

Can you link the discussion?

I've seen mostly the opposite view expressed.

I think that's besides the point, but sure:

https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/7djh1r/is_the_arcane_archer_underwhelming/
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?608873-Arcane-Archer-balance&highlight=arcane+archer
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?587871-Arcane-Archer-under-powered&highlight=arcane+archer
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?585870-Arcane-Archer-Advice&highlight=arcane+archer

Mixed opinions, of course, but the majority seems to think it's either "underpowered" or "not bad, but boring".

So, care to contribute if you think these changes fix any of these issues?

The level 3 feature is just a ribbon, but should make it feel more arcane. The lv 7 feature is a step down in average damage (even taking AC into account) throughout your carreer, but could be useful in edge cases where you're both close enough to use MM and the enemy is near death so a guaranteed small hit will drop them. Plus, it also adds greatly to the magical feel of the class.

Nifft
2020-05-19, 03:54 PM
I think that's besides the point, but sure:
(...)
Mixed opinions, of course, but the majority seems to think it's either "underpowered" or "not bad, but boring".


Well, the point is whether mechanical power increases are appropriate.

Even in those threads, the power analysis seems to indicate that the Arcane Archer subclass is on the strong side -- comparable to a Battle Master.

Your Unerring Shot and your bonus Arcane Shots seem like they'd each be a power increase.

heavyfuel
2020-05-19, 04:05 PM
Well, the point is whether mechanical power increases are appropriate.

Even in those threads, the power analysis seems to indicate that the Arcane Archer subclass is on the strong side -- comparable to a Battle Master.

Your Unerring Shot and your bonus Arcane Shots seem like they'd each be a power increase.

Most comparisons with BM revolve around Curving Shot, which just splits your DPR, maintaining more enemies on the opposing side for longer instead of diminishing their numbers to get an action economy advantage. That's not "on the strong side" by any measure.

I agree that bonus Arcane shots might've been overboard and had actually forgotten I left it in the OP (oops) but Unerring Shot is basically a ribbon with an edge case utility. Hardly more power.

Nifft
2020-05-19, 05:17 PM
Most comparisons with BM revolve around Curving Shot

Looked to me like the DPR comparisons were based on Arcane Shot having more damage but fewer uses than Maneuvers, and that the damage kept up through t3 and exceeded at t4.

So, my feedback would be: giving more per-rest uses would be cool, but you'd need to balance the effects against BM effects.

===== ===== =====

Though what I'd probably do is move the Arcane Archer subclass over to Ranger, which has spell slots already so just needs access to some Arcane spells.

Arcane Shot effects could be modeled as spells, like Paladin Smite effects have been.

It could be an elegant solution.

TyGuy
2022-03-10, 04:25 PM
The Arcane Archer is considered a pretty bad class. With only 2 arcane shots per rest, whose damage increase only at 18th level!

I had an idea on how to make the class suck a bit less with just a few minor changes, making the archetype share some traits with Hank from the D&D cartoon and Magick Archers from the Dragon's Dogma videogame:

Energy Arrow: At 3rd level, you can choose to remove the string of any bow in your posession with a Use an Item action. When unstrung, simply drawing your fingers in the air near the bow causes it to be strung with an arrow of glimmering energy. These energy arrows are treated, in all ways, as regular arrows, except they disappear one round after you shoot them. These arrows are treated as magical for the purposes of overcomming damage resistance.

Unerring Shot: At 7th level, when your bow is unstrung, you can use your action to shoot unerring missiles of force. This works exactly like a Magic Missile spell cast as a 1st-level spell. Increase the spell level by 1, firing one additional missile, at 10th, 15th, and 18th level

Arcane Shot: At 7th, 10th, 15th, and 18th level, you gain an additional Arcane Shot use per short or long rest.

I personally feel like magic attacks at 3 is a little early. Yes, there's pact weapon, but that has an opportunity cost of giving up other options. Monk and druid get theirs at 6 I believe. I kept it at 7 myself.
Fluff-wise I'd rather play an AA that created a magic bow string to perform those features, rather than no string at all.
I like removing arrow inventory tracking from the AA with conjured ammunition.
Not sure how I feel about the magic missile part. Seems like without any cost it's an if-then feature that gets a bit formulaic. If X then I shoot arrows, if Y then MM.

If I were to use your HB I would still be longing for 'more things to do' which I believe is one of the core AA issues. Talking it out makes me think that even my own HB could use a new ribbon feature.

What I did is applied BM superiority dice progression to AA arcane shots. I.e. a gain in charges and power boosts at the same levels. I reintroduced the conjure arrows feature from early UA. And I rewrote curving shot, simply because I don't like the Yondu imagery, and I think it'd be easier to course correct a missile to its intended target rather than turn it to hit something else 60' away. Here's what I've got so far.



Arcane Shot. Number of uses increases from two to three at level 7, and to four at level 15. In addition to the arcane shot improvements at level 18, they also increase an intermediate increment at level 10. Arcane shots gain the following improvements:
Banishing Arrow. After you reach 10th level in this class, a target also takes 1d6 force damage when the arrow hits it.
Beguiling Arrow. The psychic damage increases to 3d6 when you reach 10th level in this class.
Bursting Arrow. The force damage increases to 3d6 when you reach 10th level in this class.
Enfeebling Arrow. The necrotic damage increases to 3d6 when you reach 10th level in this class.
Grasping Arrow. The poison damage and slashing damage both increase to 3d6 when you reach 10th level in this class.
Piercing Arrow. The piercing damage increases to 2d6 when you reach 10th level in this class, and 3d6 when you reach 18th level in this class.
Seeking Arrow. The force damage increases to 2d6 when you reach 10th level in this class, and 3d6 when you reach 18th level in this class.
Shadow Arrow. The psychic damage increases to 3d6 when you reach 10th level in this class.
(New) Conjure Arrows. At 7th level, you learn a minor but useful magical trick. As an action, you can conjure 20 non-magical arrows or bolts. The arrows or bolts appear in your hand or in a container, such as a quiver, on your body. The arrows remain for 10 minutes or until you use this feature again; they then vanish.
Adjusting Shot (replaces curving shot). At 7th level, you learn how to redirect an errant arrow toward its target. When you make an attack roll with a magic arrow and miss, you can use a bonus action to reroll the attack roll against the target.