Skill-check like combat for inconsequential Encounters?

[Whiskeyjack8044]

I love the combat of 5e, but it can be slow and if used too much it can get stale. If my players trek through the woods or stroll through a bad part of town, something should happen.

I want to come up with something more like skill checks for these flavorful fights that don't really add to the story.

As I envision Narrative Skirmish Mode (NSM) it would use d12, to reduce randomness, and add their proficiency bonuses. They would describe what they do and I, the DM, would adjudicate whether they are proficient in that they are doing. If they have a relevant class feature they would roll with advantage. Probably a rolling a 1 or 2 is an automatic failure, and a 12 is an automatic success. Anything less than a total (die and bonus) of 5 would be a bad outcome, probably a loss of HP, any total between 6 and 9 would be a success but players would lose a small number of HP, and anything over 10 would be a success with no drawbacks.

I'm thinking that instead of HP enemies that the PCs fight in NSM would have "strikes". Most enemies would have 2 or maybe 3 strikes. Once they are down to their last strike they will flee. I would never actually roll for these enemies, if the player rolled below a 10 I would just describe the enemy landing a hit as they fight. The damage dealt to the players for bad rolls would equal anywhere from 10 to 20, depending on the situation, minus the number rolled.
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An example: They player attacks a bandit with a weapon he is proficient with, he rolls a d12 and adds his proficiency bonus for a total of 9. This is a 10 Dmg enemy, so the player takes 1 point of damage and the enemy is struck once.

The player want to attack against, this time he rolls a nat 1. The player takes 9 points of damage and the enemy is not struck.

Frustrated the player attacks a 3rd time. With a total of 11 the player strikes the enemy without taking any damage himself. Struck twice and with 1 strike remaining, the enemy flees.
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The goal is to make the world full of small threats and petty inconveniences, with out bogging down the game and making traditional combat become routine. When I call for initiative, my players will know this is a serious fight with consequences. NSM will allow my players to relish in describing how bad ass they are in combat, while still letting me the DM take small bites out of their HP/ resources.

Where I need help: I'm not sure what to do with spells and spell like features. Single target spells are straight forward, but what about AOEs? Perhaps it is a strike for 1d4 or 1d6 enemies? Maybe they get a bonus to the attack roll equal to the spell level? Maybe if it is a particularly powerful resource they spend, spell slot or limited class feature, they deal and extra 1d4 strikes?

What do you think guys? Good idea? Will it work? Any suggestions? Thanks.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'd just recommend more d20s to negate its swinginess.

For example, Side A needs to make a DC 10. If they pass, side B must make a DC 11, and so on.

Using a 1d12 would feel like using a different system, on top of adding weird complications for things like Bless.

As for AoE spells, just refer to the square root of the max number of targets. That gives you a good estimate as to how many real targets it should hit.



The specifics aren't too important, so long as you know that:

-Multiple dice for low DCs rule out the swinginess of the d20 (Disadvantage for DC 15 is better for the game than 1d20 for DC 20)

-The more rules you have, the more exclusivity you present, and the harder it is to add stuff to it. You're already seeing an example of how spells have a hard time fitting in, and this gets more complicated the more rules you add.

[MrStabby]

I love the combat of 5e, but it can be slow and if used too much it can get stale. If my players trek through the woods or stroll through a bad part of town, something should happen.

I want to come up with something more like skill checks for these flavorful fights that don't really add to the story.

As I envision Narrative Skirmish Mode (NSM) it would use d12, to reduce randomness, and add their proficiency bonuses. They would describe what they do and I, the DM, would adjudicate whether they are proficient in that they are doing. If they have a relevant class feature they would roll with advantage. Probably a rolling a 1 or 2 is an automatic failure, and a 12 is an automatic success. Anything less than a total (die and bonus) of 5 would be a bad outcome, probably a loss of HP, any total between 6 and 9 would be a success but players would lose a small number of HP, and anything over 10 would be a success with no drawbacks.

I'm thinking that instead of HP enemies that the PCs fight in NSM would have "strikes". Most enemies would have 2 or maybe 3 strikes. Once they are down to their last strike they will flee. I would never actually roll for these enemies, if the player rolled below a 10 I would just describe the enemy landing a hit as they fight. The damage dealt to the players for bad rolls would equal anywhere from 10 to 20, depending on the situation, minus the number rolled.
................................................ ............................
An example: They player attacks a bandit with a weapon he is proficient with, he rolls a d12 and adds his proficiency bonus for a total of 9. This is a 10 Dmg enemy, so the player takes 1 point of damage and the enemy is struck once.

The player want to attack against, this time he rolls a nat 1. The player takes 9 points of damage and the enemy is not struck.

Frustrated the player attacks a 3rd time. With a total of 11 the player strikes the enemy without taking any damage himself. Struck twice and with 1 strike remaining, the enemy flees.
.................................................. .............................

The goal is to make the world full of small threats and petty inconveniences, with out bogging down the game and making traditional combat become routine. When I call for initiative, my players will know this is a serious fight with consequences. NSM will allow my players to relish in describing how bad ass they are in combat, while still letting me the DM take small bites out of their HP/ resources.

Where I need help: I'm not sure what to do with spells and spell like features. Single target spells are straight forward, but what about AOEs? Perhaps it is a strike for 1d4 or 1d6 enemies? Maybe they get a bonus to the attack roll equal to the spell level? Maybe if it is a particularly powerful resource they spend, spell slot or limited class feature, they deal and extra 1d4 strikes?

What do you think guys? Good idea? Will it work? Any suggestions? Thanks.

Whilst I get why you might want to do this it can seriously impact the balance of classes.

As a rough guide, casters get to be awesome when they are casting levelled spells, otherwise it is the time for the martial classes to shine. Casters will tend to cast spells in big combats and conserve in the smaller encounters. With note that it is a bit of a generalisation, this suggestion kind of means that you only spend time playing when certain classes get to be awesome.

[JellyPooga]

Have you ever looked at the RPG Wushu? You could easily implement...basically the entire system for this. The key element of Wushu is "whatever you say, happens"; it's highly narrative and generally focused on high-flying big-action combat. Tying D&D stats like HP and resources to the Chi system of Wushu could work and it'd be pretty easy to base (wushu) Skills on things like Class and such. Perhaps worth a look if you want to add an additional narrative combat element to D&D. Small, inconsequential encounters simply need low Threat and you can even throw in the odd minor boss as a Nemesis.

[Terebin]

I'd be tempted to adapt the Powered by the Apocalypse system for d20. I don't know about mathwise, but I agree that using a different dice denomination is incongruent.

I would do something like everyone makes a narrative skirmish roll (d20+proficiency). DM can grant dis/advantage at will.
15+, full success.
7-14, mixed success - spend a resource (5 HP, 1 levels of spell slot, one use of a feature).
1-6, costly success - spend 2 resources.

These are trivial combats - there isn't a real risk of loss. I wouldn't bother having the rolls be opposed. The assumption is success, what is in question is how much it costs you. If you really wanted, you could have a roll of 1 trigger full combat, but I don't think that is an improvement.

[HappyDaze]

Isn't the rule "if the outcome is assured or inconsequential, don't roll? "

[Whiskeyjack8044]

I understand why we want to stick with the d20, but the swing-y-ness of a d20 is undeniable. I realize advantage/disadvantage combats that, but that is alot to take on faith as a player. Not only is the DM deciding if I get to use my proficiency bonus, but he also gets to decide if I have advantage/disadvantage?

I actually got the idea from something someone at WotC said, they said if you want DnD to be less random, use a d10 instead of a d20. Part of the reason I want it to be less random is so that the encounter is dealt with more quickly. A d20, with its more varied outcomes, is going to take longer.
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I'll divide classes into 3 categories: Magic, Nimble, and Physical.
Physical classes can reroll 2s and crit with 11s*.

Nimble classes can halve damage they take, rounding down, and have the option to roll at disadvantage to stike twice instead of once.

Magic Classes can spend a spell slot to get a bonus to the roll equal to the spell level. A spell strikes a number of times equal to the slots level + 1 (cantrips count as 0). When casting a spell of 1st level or higher you get advantage on the roll.

Some classes will fit into two categories.

*All classes crit when they roll a 12, a crit means they strike twice rather than once.

A class that has a limited feature, such as a clerics channel divinity or a Battle Master's superiority die, can spend that resource to retroactively roll with advantage.

Strikes carry over. If you crit on a creature that has one strike left, you can apply the second strike to another enemy. AOEs will allow the caster to apply strikes equal to 1+ their proficiency bonuse enemies.