Creating the Rings of Power [The lord of the Rings]

[Dragondust]

Hey guys, iam planning on a ring-crafter character in my current campain. The Ring crafter is a NPC and hes all about crafting the Rings of Power like in the lord of the rings. I tried to make the rings on my own way but i dont know that much about the Crafting system and hoped u guys can help me. The following is my suggestion, if u have any other idears feel free to comment them.

here is what ive got for my Rings of Power:


The nine Rings rings (given to the Humans)
- +2 Cha Enhancement Bonus; eagle’s Splendor;
- +2 AC -> Shild of Faith
- +2 Saving throw ; Heroism;
- +2 Skill check ; Heroism;
- +2 Attack rolls ; Heroism;
- Bestow curse: *my own curse

- Every week where the ring is worn, the ring wearer must reach a hidden Will-save DC: 12, otherwise he can no longer remove the ring voluntarily. Every week the DC increases by +2. If he fails
the DC, he becomes subject to the Ring and cant and does not want to remove it anymore.
* the +2Saving throw from the ring dont apply on this curse
- Once subject to the Ring, his wearer must succeed another will-save on the same DC he failled before. The DC increases by +2 every week. If he fails the roll he gets subject under the
Ringcreator as a ringwraith


ive already talked to my DM and he said that i need to make 2 curses for this. He checked out some book and told me the price of this Ring:

Heroism: 56250GP; Eagle Splendor: 9.000GP; Shild of Faith: 18.000GP; Bestow Curse: 140625GP; Bestow Curse: 140625GP

When iam right this makes a total of 364.500‬GP for 1 Ring. This is pretty heavy for me.. can someone explain me how to figure out these prices? Futuremore am i able to reduce them?

Lets go guys :D make the Rings from The lord of the Rings ^^

[Biggus]

The guidelines for item crafting are found here: https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm

Note that they're guidelines for DMs, not hard-and-fast rules. Some printed items have their prices increased or reduced due to their perceived usefulness or lack of.

Personally, I make the cost of the ring to be 214,500GPs. Less than your DM says, but still in epic level territory.

To be fair though, the rings of power are supposed to be epic items, if not minor artifacts (the one ring itself is a major artifact, although a high-epic crafter could possibly make something similar).

[el minster]

Hobbits should get a bonus on thier save or something.

[Doctor Despair]

Ability Bonus: Bonus squared × 1,000 gp (4000)
Armor Bonus: Bonus squared × 1,000 gp (4000)
Save Bonus: Bonus squared × 1,000 gp (4000)
Skill Bonus: Bonus squared × 100 gp (400)
Attack Bonus: Bonus squared × 2,000 gp (8000)
(Bestow Curse, Greater) Continuous: Spell level1 × caster level × 2,000 gp (182,000)
Multiple Abilities: Multiply lower item cost by 1.5 (202,400 x 1.5 = 303,600)

Or, using an artificer, or a wizard/archivist that added non-nativespells to his spell list (as Shield of Faith is cleric only), you could do the math this way:

Heroism, continuous (2x4x2000=16,000)
Eagle's Splenodor, continuous (2x3x2000=12,000)
Shield of Faith, continuous (1x1x2000=2,000)
Bestow Curse, Greater, continuous (7x13x2000=182,000)
Multiple Abilities (212,000x1.5=318,000)

Either way, if you're open to cheese, you can abuse distill joy/liquid pain factories to get NI xp and gold for crafting. If you go into Dweomerkeeper, you can do "free" wishes to create 25,000 gold at a time, so over the course of a couple days, you could create some wealth.

Alternatively, if your DM is open to it, you could do an "unsafe" wish (greater effects) to put the Bestow Curse on an item. That's what's really jacking the price up.

Edit: I misread how the multiple abilities multiplier works. It's for SUBSEQUENT effects.



Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that do take up a space on a character’s body each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

So if we add the curse first...

(Bestow Curse, Greater) Continuous: Spell level1 × caster level × 2,000 gp (182,000)
Ability Bonus: Bonus squared × 1,000 gp (4000x1.5)
Armor Bonus: Bonus squared × 1,000 gp (4000x1.5)
Save Bonus: Bonus squared × 1,000 gp (4000x1.5)
Skill Bonus: Bonus squared × 100 gp (400x1.5)
Attack Bonus: Bonus squared × 2,000 gp (8000x1.5)
Total: 212,600


Or, using an artificer, or a wizard/archivist that added non-nativespells to his spell list (as Shield of Faith is cleric only), you could do the math this way:

Bestow Curse, Greater, continuous (7x13x2000=182,000)
Heroism, continuous (2x4x2000=16,000x1.5)
Eagle's Splenodor, continuous (2x3x2000=12,000x1.5)
Shield of Faith, continuous (1x1x2000=2,000x1.5)
Total: 227,000

Still epic either way. :/

[tyckspoon]

Usually for stat bonuses you just use the guideline formulas for whatever the actual numeric effect of the spell is - pricing it like spell effects gives pretty weird results, typically either massively under or over-pricing the result (the ur-example is trying to make an item that provides True Strike; pricing it with the rules for first-level spells makes it very, very cheap, but what the spell actually does is give +20 to hit, so you should price it like an item that gives +20 to hit.) So, for the elements of the item that work well with those rules:

+ 2 Charisma, 4,000 GP (Bonus value squared x 1000.)
+ 2 AC, Deflection type 8,000 GP (Bonus value squared x 2000. Going with Deflection because you want it based on Shield of Faith.)
+ 2 Saves, anything other than Resistance 8,000 GP (Same as the Deflection AC.)

Those are pretty standard prices - almost every printed item that gives these types of bonuses uses those formulas without many deviations. Then we get into the kind of murky stuff:

+ 2 Attack rolls: There isn't a given value for this, closest match would be enhancement bonuses on weapons. That's bonus squared x 2000; if we take that as a reasonable estimate, this would also be worth 8,000.
+ 2 to all skills is.. basically something you'd have to sort out with your GM. By the guidelines skill bonus is bonus value squared x 100, so this would 'only' cost 400 GP per skill.. but you don't really want to and shouldn't pay to give a skill bonus to every single skill in the game, because no wearer is going to want bonuses to literally every skill. A medium Intelligence (14) Rogue gets 10 skill points/level, so 10 skills they could keep maxed and might use pretty frequently; if we took that as a baseline this aspect would be worth 4,000.

So pre-curse you have an item that would have a baseline estimate worth of 32,000 GP just for the stat bonuses it gives. That's.. not really that expensive, but then this isn't giving huge bonuses in the overall scheme of D&D. If Magic Item Compendium is being used most of these are just basic stat bonuses and can be combined into the same item with no additional surcharge; if not, the DMG charges 50% extra for adding more properties to a single item, so you'd be looking at 44,000.

The last aspect is a curse that turns the wearer into a minion of the crafter. That is.. basically completely outside the area of providing a price estimate, and is something you largely have to sort out with the DM. The books generally do not try to price out curses, because the values are supposed to reflect the positive value of the item to its users, and this particular effect could well move it into the range of a minor artifact (IE, not necessarily incredibly powerful, but does things that cannot be correctly valued simply by assigning it a GP cost.) For reference, however, you could try to find items that cast Charm or Dominating effects to compare prices, as these would be the most similar end results to this ring. For references sake the guidelines would place a continuous-effect Dominate Monster at 306,000 GP; creating permanent minions is a very powerful ability.

[Biggus]

Hobbits should get a bonus on thier save or something.


+1 racial bonus on all saving throws.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#halflings

[el minster]

+1 is nowhere near enough.

[Doctor Despair]

+ 2 to all skills is.. basically something you'd have to sort out with your GM. By the guidelines skill bonus is bonus value squared x 100, so this would 'only' cost 400 GP per skill.. but you don't really want to and shouldn't pay to give a skill bonus to every single skill in the game, because no wearer is going to want bonuses to literally every skill. A medium Intelligence (14) Rogue gets 10 skill points/level, so 10 skills they could keep maxed and might use pretty frequently; if we took that as a baseline this aspect would be worth 4,000.


I suppose he could have meant +2 to ALL skill checks instead of a specific skill check -- and in fact, he probably did, as that's what Heroism confers. Yeah, that'd be expensive if we did it without the spell. It could be cheaper if you re-tool the idea to use Dominate Person instead of Bestow Curse, Greater, or Dominate Monster (since this is meant for humans). That drops it to a level 4 spell. Using an artificer...

Dominate Person, continuous (4x10x2000=80,000)
Heroism, continuous (2x4x2000=16,000x1.5)
Ability Bonus: Bonus squared × 1,000 gp (4000x1.5)
Shield of Faith, continuous (1x1x2000=2,000x1.5)
Total: 113,000

[liquidformat]

I like a lot of Doctor Despair's stuff though in this case I think the curses should probably be a custom Cursed Item effect (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm) if not a possession effect from intelligent items (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm) granted I think like Biggus said the rings are most likely epic magic items or artifacts.

[Doctor Despair]

I like a lot of Doctor Despair's stuff though in this case I think the curses should probably be a custom Cursed Item effect (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm) if not a possession effect from intelligent items (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm) granted I think like Biggus said the rings are most likely epic magic items or artifacts.

I agree that as a DM, I would use the cursed items as more of a guide than strict crafting, but it's also tough for OP as a PC to access those. Likewise, this item could be created as a custom artifact, perhaps more appropriately and thematically, but as a PC, OP can't do that.

On a side-note, I remembered that Craft Contingent Spell exists. Load the rings up with contingent spells for the dominate effects using whichever spell your DM lets you do, using the contingencies you describe. Bestow Curse, Greater after someone has worn the ring for 24 hours; Bestow Curse, Greater if Curse 1 has been triggered, the ring has been worn for 24 hours, and the current wearer is not subject to a curse from this ring; etc. Can't do much about the increasing DC with a spell though, since your spell DC is your spell DC. Once cursed, they could be prohibited from removing the ring -- and probably have some penalty to their will saves against mind-affecting spells created by you, the caster. Then, contingent Dominate Person, triggered by the ring having been worn for 24 hours by a person affected by one of the Bestow Curses. Load it up with more contingent Dominate Persons to fire each day if the first one failed on a nat 20 save or something. Not sure what you could do to MAKE them a wring-wraith, but once they're dominated, you could make them seek out a template that fits that flavor if you want. :p

As a bonus, crafting contingent Dominate Persons/Curses is 1/20th as expensive as making them permanent on an item.

As a con to this strategy, you'd have to make a bunch of contingent spells, so depending on how paranoid you are/how many times you think they'll pass the will saves, you might end up paying more.

As a bonus, as each of these are discrete costs and not one lump sum cost to create an item, so you get more agency over the price.

[liquidformat]

I agree that as a DM, I would use the cursed items as more of a guide than strict crafting, but it's also tough for OP as a PC to access those. Likewise, this item could be created as a custom artifact, perhaps more appropriately and thematically, but as a PC, OP can't do that.

On a side-note, I remembered that Craft Contingent Spell exists. Load the rings up with contingent spells for the dominate effects using whichever spell your DM lets you do, using the contingencies you describe. Bestow Curse, Greater after someone has worn the ring for 24 hours; Bestow Curse, Greater if Curse 1 has been triggered, the ring has been worn for 24 hours, and the current wearer is not subject to a curse from this ring; etc. Can't do much about the increasing DC with a spell though, since your spell DC is your spell DC. Once cursed, they could be prohibited from removing the ring -- and probably have some penalty to their will saves against mind-affecting spells created by you, the caster. Then, contingent Dominate Person, triggered by the ring having been worn for 24 hours by a person affected by one of the Bestow Curses. Load it up with more contingent Dominate Persons to fire each day if the first one failed on a nat 20 save or something. Not sure what you could do to MAKE them a wring-wraith, but once they're dominated, you could make them seek out a template that fits that flavor if you want. :p

As a bonus, crafting contingent Dominate Persons/Curses is 1/20th as expensive as making them permanent on an item.

As a con to this strategy, you'd have to make a bunch of contingent spells, so depending on how paranoid you are/how many times you think they'll pass the will saves, you might end up paying more.

As a bonus, as each of these are discrete costs and not one lump sum cost to create an item, so you get more agency over the price.

Well the crafter is an NPC so it depends on how they approach it.

[Doctor Despair]

Well the crafter is an NPC so it depends on how they approach it.

That's true. I suppose technically Dominate Person would link the NPC to the subject, so it would have to be a double Bestow Curse. I also missed in the OP that his DM said that he'd need two bestow curses using traditional item creation. Between needing two uses and not being able to use dominate person/monster, that puts the price WAAAAY into epic and further cements my thoughts that Craft Contingent Spell is like the only feasible way to make one of these rings pre-epic.

Again, I'd highly encourage OP to look into distilled pain/liquid joy factories if they want to make multiples of these. Alternatively, I guess you could use Astral Projection to duplicate all your gear (including the gold in your pouch), use that gold to pay the cost to craft contingent spells, and then end the projection, retaining your original gold plus your new contingent spell. That's ALSO super-cheesey, but no more than the infinite xp/gold route that joy/pain factories are, so pick your poison.

Edit: Also for OP: there's a gold-to-xp conversion chart, if you care to look, so the astral projection cheese also accounts for the xp costs of crafting contingent spells.

The base item cost would then be:

Heroism, continuous (2x4x2000=16,000)
Ability Bonus: Bonus squared × 1,000 gp (4000x1.5=6,000)
Shield of Faith, continuous (1x1x2000=2,000( (2,000x1.5=3,000)
Total: 25,000

[Gnaeus]

LOTR purist quip.
The rings took decades to transform the wielders into wraiths, not weeks.

[Doctor Despair]

LOTR purist quip.
The rings took decades to transform the wielders into wraiths, not weeks.

Craft contingent spell could be set to trigger after a few decades, although it would be a little disappointing if OP's character died before then, haha.

[Biggus]

Here's how I worked it out:

I assumed, due to the high prices quoted for the various abilities, that we're using the DMG, not the MIC.

Base prices for each component:

+2 CHA (Enhancement) is simple, 4,000GP

+2 AC (Deflection) likewise is standard, 8,000GP

As the other three bonuses exactly replicate a continuous Heroism effect, I treated them as that.

Spell level x caster level x 2,000 x spell duration modifier = 3 x 5 x 2,000 x 1.5 = 45,000GPs

The curses are stated to be based on Bestow Curse, so I calculated them as a continuous spell effect:

Spell level x caster level x 2,000 x spell duration modifier = 4 x 7 x 2,000 x 0.5 = 28,000GPs each

All the abilities except the most expensive one trigger the x1.5 cost penalty for multiple abilities on the same item.

Looking at the DM's prices for the CHA and AC bonuses, there seems to have been a additional x1.5 price modifier applied. I assumed this was the modifier for having item powers in nonstandard body slots, although technically this only applies to Wondrous Items, not rings. As CHA bonuses are normally found on Wondrous Items however, it didn't seem entirely unreasonable to apply them here. This modifier shouldn't apply to the Deflection AC bonus though, as rings are the standard place for that bonus.

So putting all that together I got:

+2CHA: 4,000 x 1.5 x 1.5 = 9,000GPs

+2AC: 8,000 x 1.5 = 12,000GPs

Heroism: 45,000 x 1.5 = 67,500GPs

Bestow Curse: 28,000 x 1.5 x 1.5 x 2 (for two curses) = 126,000GPs

Total: 214,500GPs

I've probably made a mistake somewhere...

[AvatarVecna]

I suppose he could have meant +2 to ALL skill checks instead of a specific skill check -- and in fact, he probably did, as that's what Heroism confers. Yeah, that'd be expensive if we did it without the spell. It could be cheaper if you re-tool the idea to use Dominate Person instead of Bestow Curse, Greater, or Dominate Monster (since this is meant for humans). That drops it to a level 4 spell. Using an artificer...

Dominate Person, continuous (4x10x2000=80,000)
Heroism, continuous (2x4x2000=16,000x1.5)
Ability Bonus: Bonus squared × 1,000 gp (4000x1.5)
Shield of Faith, continuous (1x1x2000=2,000x1.5)
Total: 113,000

These aren't accounting for duration:


If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.


The nine Rings rings (given to the Humans)
- +2 Cha Enhancement Bonus; eagle’s Splendor;
- +2 AC -> Shild of Faith
- +2 Saving throw ; Heroism;
- +2 Skill check ; Heroism;
- +2 Attack rolls ; Heroism;
- Bestow curse: *my own curse

Cha +2 enhancement costs 4000 gp (2 x 2 x 1000). If instead you meant "+2 modifier" (which is what eagle's splendor would give), that would cost 16000 (4 x 4 x 1000), although a continuous "Eagle's Splendor" effect would instead cost 24000 gp (2 x 3 x 2000 x 2). None of these three values match the value your DM assigned.

Continuous "Shield of Faith" costs 4000 gp (1 x 1 x 2000 x 2). Although if instead you built is using the general rules for gaining a deflection bonus to AC, that would instead cost 8000 gp (2 x 2 x 2000). Neither of these values match what your DM assigned.

Continuous "Heroism" effect would cost 45000 gp (3 x 5 x 2000 x 1.5). There isn't really a great way to buy "+2 on all attacks" or "+2 on all skills" via the standard item creation guidelines, unfortunately. This price does not match what your DM assigned.

If this item granted you the at-will ability to cast "Bestow Curse" on somebody, that would fall under either Command Word or Use-Activated, which would cost "spell level" x "caster level" x either 1800 or 2000 (for CW and UA respectively). Since these are the Rings Of Power crafted by Sauron, I'm fine assuming these are CL 20 curses, so that would cost at most 120000 gp.

...except the ring doesn't let you curse people, the ring curses the wearer. Items that curse the wearer have a lower market price than an uncursed version of the item, not a higher market price.


Heroism: 56250GP; Eagle Splendor: 9.000GP; Shild of Faith: 18.000GP; Bestow Curse: 140625GP; Bestow Curse: 140625GP

When iam right this makes a total of 364.500‬GP for 1 Ring. This is pretty heavy for me.. can someone explain me how to figure out these prices? Futuremore am i able to reduce them?

Lets go guys :D make the Rings from The lord of the Rings ^^

So before I get going further, I'll just say this much: regardless of whether this ring is a good representation of what The Rings do, and regardless of what the magic item creation rules say...those rules are guidelines for DMs to use pricing out custom items. They are not the final arbiter of balance, and if your DM feels that the price given is too much or too little for the effect gained, then that's the DM's call to make. Certainly everybody knows that the item creation rules underprice a great many highly-useful spell effects with its one-size-fits-all approach.

However, I get where your DM is coming from. It's the same attitude that's responsible for magic rings being harder to learn to make than magic staves: this is how you make the Rings Of Power, the artifacts that birthed this freaking game in the first place, and they need to be treated as the powerful magic items that they are. The effects assigned would maybe have a cost of 65000 before being reduced by the curse. That's weak ****, we can do better.

I am not a LotR buff, so I can only go on what I can find online in wikis and the like. What that being said, here's some powers I've found for the rings:

1) Extended Life Span - either greatly extended, or supposedly unending. That the wearers could supposedly "live indefinitely without aging, until living became unendurable". However, it doesn't seem to totally prevent the problems that aging brings; Bilbo near the end of his long life described it as feeling like he was being stretched out, or something to that effect.

2) As a more active form of the above, the user could become "invisible" and interact with a layer of reality normally unavailable. To see beyond what was normally visible.

3) The ring supposedly enhanced the natural greatness of the wielder, making them amazing at what they already excelled at. This is part of the reason why a hobbit was the best ring-bearer: hobbits were so inherently ****ty that the ring couldn't really find much of anything to enhance, and thus the more detrimental effects that were built in to prey off the wearer's addiction to the power the rings gave was lessened. Men could be corrupted by its mere presence, by the possibility of power it represented, and Gandalf was actively afraid of possessing it for fear of just how much destruction would be wrought if his mind was ensorcelled.

With all that in mind:

While wearing a Ring Of Power, the wearer is beyond the passage of time, living until they are killed, or life becomes unendurable to them. Should they activate this "fading from reality" effect further, they are rendered invisible and are able to see invisible things. They are also enhanced in many ways, gaining a +4 enhancement bonus to Charisma, a +2 deflection bonus to AC, and a +2 morale bonus to attacks, saves, and skills. However, over time the ring's addictive qualities, its enhancement of their worst traits along with their best, and the ring's subtle magical curse will strip the wearer of their willpower until they are an obedient husk obeying the dark lord Sauron.

An uncursed version of this ring might fetch a market price of 153,000 gp.

All but the most expensive effect are 150% their normal price, to reflect being built together into a single item, per the magic item guidelines:


Multiple Different Abilities
Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that do take up a space on a character’s body each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

45,000 gp: Continuous "Heroism" effect
36,000 gp: Continuous "Invisibility" effect
27,000 gp: Continuous "See Invisibility" effect
24,000 gp: Charisma +4 (enhancement)
15,000 gp: "Wedded To History" feat
6,000 gp: Continuous "Shield Of Faith" effect

While wearing a Ring Of Power, the wearer is beyond the passage of time, living until they are killed, or life becomes unendurable to them. Should they activate this "fading from reality" effect further, they are rendered invisible and are able to see beyond the illusory veil of reality that normal sight cannot pierce.

Their best and worst qualities are enhanced by the ring's power. All bearers will gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Charisma, a +5 deflection bonus to AC, and +4 morale bonus to attacks, saves, and skills. The confidence this instills within the wearer will render them fearless no matter the danger they face, for what being could threaten one as great as they are now?

Beyond these general benefits, the wearer will also be enhanced in a way that is specific to them, and this is perhaps the greatest and most terrible of its powers: this is the way the ring is designed to tempt any particular user into wearing it as frequently as possible. Why settle for being great...when you could be the best? The first time the ring is donned by any particular user, the ring will cast Wish on itself, giving itself additional magic item properties worth up to 125,000 gp.

However, over time the ring's addictive qualities, its enhancement of their worst traits along with their best, and the ring's subtle magical curse will strip the wearer of their willpower until they are an obedient husk obeying the dark lord Sauron.

An uncursed version of this ring might fetch a market price of 1,239,000 gp.

All but the most expensive effect are 150% their normal price, to reflect being built together into a single item, per the magic item guidelines:


Multiple Different Abilities
Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that do take up a space on a character’s body each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

264,000: Continuous "Greater Heroism" effect
187,500: "Wish" effect (15,000 XP)
336,000: Continuous "Greater Invisibility" effect
307,500: Continuous "True Seeing" effect
75,000: AC +5 (deflection)
54,000: Charisma +6 (enhancement)
15,000: "Wedded To History" feat

The "Wish" effect is arbitrarily cheaper because, while granting a user the ability to grant wishes would be exceedingly expensive, the particular way this "Wish" effect is set-up effectively makes it just a floating magic item ability. For any individual user, the value of the Wish effect will be exactly the same as the market price of the ability that Wish would grant...and thus, that's how the Wish effect will factor into the market price: a Wish with a 25000 XP limit can enhance an item such that its market price would be 250k higher, and thus that's the effects price in my eyes.

While wearing a Ring Of Power, the wearer is beyond the passage of time, living until they are killed, or life becomes unendurable to them. Should they activate this "fading from reality" effect further, they are rendered invisible and are able to see beyond the illusory veil of reality that normal sight cannot pierce.

Their best and worst qualities are enhanced by the ring's power. All bearers will gain a +6 enhancement bonus to all attributes, a +5 deflection bonus to AC, and +4 morale bonus to attacks, saves, and skills. The confidence this instills within the wearer will render them fearless no matter the danger they face, for what being could threaten one as great as they are now?

Beyond these general benefits, the wearer will also be enhanced in a way that is specific to them, and this is far and away the greatest and most terrible of its powers: this is the way the ring is designed to tempt any particular user into wearing it as frequently as possible. Why settle for being great...when you could be the best? The first time the ring is donned by any particular user, the ring will cast Wish on itself, giving itself an additional property worth up to 1,500,000 gp.

However, over time the ring's addictive qualities, its enhancement of their worst traits along with their best, and the ring's subtle magical curse will strip the wearer of their willpower until they are an obedient husk obeying the dark lord Sauron.

An uncursed version of this ring might fetch a market price of 3,337,500 gp.

1,500,000: "Wish" effect (125000 XP)
720,000: Continuous "Superior Invisibility" effect
396,000: Continuous "Greater Heroism" effect
307,500: Continuous "True Seeing" effect
75,000: AC +5 (deflection)
54,000: Strength +6 (enhancement)
54,000: Dexterity +6 (enhancement)
54,000: Constitution +6 (enhancement)
54,000: Intelligence +6 (enhancement)
54,000: Wisdom +6 (enhancement)
54,000: Charisma +6 (enhancement)
15,000: "Wedded To History" feat

The "Wish" effect is arbitrarily cheaper because, while granting a user the ability to grant wishes would be exceedingly expensive, the particular way this "Wish" effect is set-up effectively makes it just a floating magic item ability. For any individual user, the value of the Wish effect will be exactly the same as the market price of the ability that Wish would grant...and thus, that's how the Wish effect will factor into the market price: a Wish with a 25000 XP limit can enhance an item such that its market price would be 250k higher, and thus that's the effects price in my eyes.

[liquidformat]

I am not a LotR buff, so I can only go on what I can find online in wikis and the like. What that being said, here's some powers I've found for the rings:

1) Extended Life Span - either greatly extended, or supposedly unending. That the wearers could supposedly "live indefinitely without aging, until living became unendurable". However, it doesn't seem to totally prevent the problems that aging brings; Bilbo near the end of his long life described it as feeling like he was being stretched out, or something to that effect.

2) As a more active form of the above, the user could become "invisible" and interact with a layer of reality normally unavailable. To see beyond what was normally visible.

3) The ring supposedly enhanced the natural greatness of the wielder, making them amazing at what they already excelled at. This is part of the reason why a hobbit was the best ring-bearer: hobbits were so inherently ****ty that the ring couldn't really find much of anything to enhance, and thus the more detrimental effects that were built in to prey off the wearer's addiction to the power the rings gave was lessened. Men could be corrupted by its mere presence, by the possibility of power it represented, and Gandalf was actively afraid of possessing it for fear of just how much destruction would be wrought if his mind was ensorcelled.


Reading through some of the stuff on the rings, it sounds like for the human rings of power using a lich phylactery might actually work pretty well. A magic item the bestows the Lich template and maybe play around with corruption or something to be the effects of the ring taking control.

[One Step Two]

Reading through some of the stuff on the rings, it sounds like for the human rings of power using a lich phylactery might actually work pretty well. A magic item the bestows the Lich template and maybe play around with corruption or something to be the effects of the ring taking control.

This right here is an important part. The seeming benefit is: The user takes no age penalties whatsoever, and remains the same age category as they did upon first taking ownership of the ring. However, for every year after they would have naturally passed away, they instead lose a a single point of Constitution, when it reaches 0, they become a Lich under the control of the creator of the ring.

You can keep whatever bonuses you name, but the effect keeping people desiring the ring is more like the Sympathy (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sympathy.htm) spell to my eyes.
Addititionally, you can make the item cheaper for creating it for a specific race or class, (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#otherConsiderations) giving other members who would wear it a bonus to resist the temptation to wear it.

[aglondier]

Having decided upon what powers and effects you want in the ring, now you have to find a way to make it affordable.

Sauron crafted his set of rings in a volcano. That, right there, is the kind of epic storytelling that GMs live for, and was surely a big help in lowering the crafting cost. So you will need some kind of enchanted forge.

Magical tools would probably help too. As I remember it, the Dragonlances(tm) could only be forged with a specific hammer.

Rare magical materials and reagents are also a must have. Sure, the rings are made of iron, but is that iron dug out of the Iron Hills? Or is it meteoric iron that fell long ago in the lands of eternal darkness and have sat in a cemetary for the last century?

The more storied your process and materials, the less actual cash you need to involve in the process.

Also, don't forget that Sauron was effectively a lesser diety investing a portion of his power in each ring. You could do worse than to gain the blessing of a suitably evil diety to aid in their creation...

[AvatarVecna]

The more storied your process and materials, the less actual cash you need to involve in the process.

Ah, the "every backpack is a bag of holding if your DM doesn't care about encumbrance" approach to roleplaying. I very much agree, it's a lot easier to ignore the mechanics if you ignore the mechanics. :smalltongue:

[aglondier]

Ah, the "every backpack is a bag of holding if your DM doesn't care about encumbrance" approach to roleplaying. I very much agree, it's a lot easier to ignore the mechanics if you ignore the mechanics. :smalltongue:

*sigh* My, what a lovely attitude you have there...

What I am saying is that magic item creation is a cooperative effort between GM and player, and that cost discounts for using special materials, rare reagents, applying use limitations and so on can be negotiated. Especially considering the item creation rules are fuzzy to begin with...

[AvatarVecna]

*sigh* My, what a lovely attitude you have there...

What I am saying is that magic item creation is a cooperative effort between GM and player, and that cost discounts for using special materials, rare reagents, applying use limitations and so on can be negotiated. Especially considering the item creation rules are fuzzy to begin with...

The blue text is an indication of more light-hearted sarcasm, as is the smiley. It's not a statement meant in total earnest, it's more...running adjacent to my thoughts on what you said. Yeah, the DM could say that using a super-forge built in a volcano warrants a discount. The DM could also say that no lesser forge would even be capable of forging The Rings at standard pricing and that until you can survive working around lava, even trying is just gonna get you killed. Neither of those things is codified in the rules, but yes, the DM could do either of those things. Or neither, and instead do something else. Or not alter the rules. The DM could do any of these things, because the rules are made up and don't matter.

"This could be a lot easier if you convince your DM to make it easier via roleplay" is true, but it's also maybe not exactly a giant revelation. *shrugs*

[Telonius]

Using the "Taint" rules might actually better model the "slow descent into evil" that the Rings would cause.

The three Elven-Rings would be slightly different items. They wouldn't produce the same Curse effects as the Seven and the Nine, since Sauron wasn't directly involved in making them. Celebrimbor was actually the one who made 19 of the 20 Rings; Sauron only made the One, though he helped with the Seven and the Nine. (Cooperative item crafting; sneaky guy like Sauron providing the spellcasting, leaving the poor schmuck Celebrimbor to provide the time, gold, and XP).

I don't think that the One Ring's effect on Frodo, Gollum, and Bilbo would necessarily be a good gauge for the effects of the others. In D&D terms, the One Ring is probably best modeled as both a phylactery, an intelligent Item Familiar, and an Artifact. The Seven and the Nine were instigated by Sauron specifically to corrupt Men and Dwarves respectively, focusing on the weaknesses of each (desire of power for Men, greed for Dwarves). So "usable only by X race" could be an item cost limiter.

[Rockphed]

Using the "Taint" rules might actually better model the "slow descent into evil" that the Rings would cause.

The three Elven-Rings would be slightly different items. They wouldn't produce the same Curse effects as the Seven and the Nine, since Sauron wasn't directly involved in making them. Celebrimbor was actually the one who made 19 of the 20 Rings; Sauron only made the One, though he helped with the Seven and the Nine. (Cooperative item crafting; sneaky guy like Sauron providing the spellcasting, leaving the poor schmuck Celebrimbor to provide the time, gold, and XP).

I don't think that the One Ring's effect on Frodo, Gollum, and Bilbo would necessarily be a good gauge for the effects of the others. In D&D terms, the One Ring is probably best modeled as both a phylactery, an intelligent Item Familiar, and an Artifact. The Seven and the Nine were instigated by Sauron specifically to corrupt Men and Dwarves respectively, focusing on the weaknesses of each (desire of power for Men, greed for Dwarves). So "usable only by X race" could be an item cost limiter.

Though it should be noted that the seven didn't do much to dwarves. Dwarves did not experience longer life, they just became a bit more greedy (and got very good at using the rings' powers to feed their greed.)

[hamishspence]

I'd speculate that when the Elves originally made them (with Sauron's help) they might not have had different powers - as per this suggestion:

http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q79-Differ

and that if Sauron had handed 7 out of the Nine Rings to the Dwarves instead of Men, they'd have had exactly the same effect.

And similarly, for a Man who'd obtained one of the Seven, it might have functioned exactly as one of the Nine would.


In other words - it's the differences between Dwarves and Men that make the Seven and the Nine seem different.


So, they're not really the Seven and the Nine - they are the Sixteen - with the terms only being used retroactively, after Sauron had given them out and they'd seen some use.

[Rockphed]

The only problem I have with that explanation is that it ignores the simple reason for Celebrimbor to have given the Lord of Khazadum a ring: they were friends and giving him a ring would have been a sign of friendship. In terms of this thread, I would have the first wearer of a ring choose what the ring enhances, and further wearers can't do much to change that. So a man who puts on a ring might have it help with sorcery and conquest while a dwarf would choose trade and smithy and mining. Perhaps that is why there were only 9 wraiths rather than 12, since the dwarven rings were all optimized to help a dwarven king turn a hole in the ground into a grand city.

[Telonius]

Looking into this a bit further; apparently whether or not they're the same kind of ring isn't ever completely clarified. Sauron got the Nine rings when he sacked Eregion, but only found the Seven (six, if he'd already given one to the Dwarves of Khazad-Dum) after torturing their locations out of Celebrimbor. So either it's coincidence that he gave the first bunch to humans, and the second bunch to Dwarves (certainly possible), or there's some reason he gave the bunch that Celebrimbor concealed to Dwarves only. Maybe there's something in the nature of the rings, or he just wanted to be particularly cruel to an elf who had unusually good friendships with dwarves.

[AvatarVecna]

My understanding from a bit of research was that Sauron helped make the 16 rings, which were all supposed to be for the elves. But then when he made the One Ring, the elves saw what ye was pulling and removed the rings. So he threw a hissy fit in the form of a war to get back "his" property, which was all but the three rings crafted purely by the one elven blacksmith guy?

So neither the 7 nor the 9 were specifically made with dwarves or humans in mind, I think?

[daremetoidareyo]

Can't you extract demon essence to curse it for free?

[hamishspence]

The only problem I have with that explanation is that it ignores the simple reason for Celebrimbor to have given the Lord of Khazadum a ring: they were friends and giving him a ring would have been a sign of friendship.


C2. Were the Seven and Nine Rings originally intended for Dwarves and Men?

Almost certainly not. The intended purpose of the Rings was preserving Middle-earth from change. This is an Elvish motive, not likely to appeal to Dwarves and especially not to Men.

...

Steuard Jensen points out [r.a.b.t article of 2002-07-16] that not only did the Elves originally intend for the Seven and the Nine to be kept by Elves, Sauron originally intended it too. When he made and put on the One Ring to control the others and their wearers, he intended to make the Elf-lords his slaves. But they immediately realized his purpose and thwarted him by taking off their Rings. Only then did he make open war on Eregion, take the Rings, and give them out to Men and Dwarves. (The above-cited article lays out an interesting scenario for how things might have gone if the Elves had not realized their danger and thus fallen under his domination.)

There may be one exception. Thorin Oakenshield’s ancestors, down to his father, bore one of the Seven. “The Dwarves of Durin’s Folk ... say that it was given to the King of Khazad-dûm, Durin III, by the Elven-smiths themselves and not by Sauron, though doubtless his evil power was on it.” [LotR App A(III) (1113)]. Perhaps this is one of the legends about a great leader, like George Washington and the cherry tree, that are part of a people’s tradition without being literally true. This particular Dwarvish tradition is contradicted by The Silmarillion: “Sauron gathered into his hands all the remaining Rings of Power. ... Seven Rings he gave to the Dwarves”


Maybe the Rings should become more powerful with more powerful wielders, and the longer they've been owned?

[Quertus]

Maybe the Rings should become more powerful with more powerful wielders, and the longer they've been owned?

Mapping the Rings of Power to (cursed) Weapons of Legacy would certainly make them cheaper… :smallbiggrin:

Also, all this talk of Rings has reminded me of my own Sauron espy, who spent all his WBL providing (cursed) Rings of Sustenance to a starving post apocalyptic setting.