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View Full Version : Optimization Optimization Showcase in the Playground: Tenebriated



Piggy Knowles
2020-05-21, 10:36 AM
INTRODUCTION
With more than a decade and a half of toying around with 3.5, I’ve accumulated a lot of spare builds and ideas. While I don’t have an active game going right now, I still like to pop open my builds folder and try to refine things. Recently I decided to make a dedicated effort to flesh out some of these builds into full write-ups, and reached out to some friends in the CO community who might be interested in doing the same. In the spirit of Tempest Stormwind’s Weekly Optimization Showcase (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right?), I thought I’d showcase the end results here.

The goal is (usually) not to show off any fancy new TO trick, but to showcase effective, playable builds and spur discussion. While each of us has a different build philosophy, in general the intent is to create something that can be played in most groups from level 1 to level 20. Again, the goal is discussion, so feel free to discuss the build, talk about other options, make suggestions or tear it all to shreds. Also, feel free to use anything showcased here in any of your campaigns—and let us know how they work out if you do!

Right now the group consists of myself, the Viscount, Akal Saris, Venger and WhamBamSam, with a couple of other folks hopefully on their way. Typically one of us writes up the build concept and possibly a stub, the others share feedback on Discord or in some of the shared documents we have, and together we refine things until we’re happy with the final product. I’ll list the build’s main author whenever I showcase a particular build.

For this showcase, we’ll be giving a new meaning to talking dirty: meet Tenebriated!


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431937476010180610/712777779111919756/Kurgan_28Highlander29.png

Tenebriated
Binding under the influence.

BACKGROUND
Probably the single most requested suggestion whenever we ask for ideas on future showcases is binder. It makes sense, after all: it’s a really cool class, with a ton of flavorful abilities that can be taken in all sorts of directions.

So why haven’t we done one? Well, it’s simple really: as cool as binder is, until now we haven’t had anything resembling “our” take on one. You can build a really effective binder that changes up its tactics on a day to day basis without requiring much in the way of optimization, and things like the early entry anima mage have become optimization staples at this point. We really wouldn’t have much to add.

All that being said, one of the very first builds we had when we started collecting potential showcase material was one put together by Akal Saris: a binder/anima mage focused specifically on the fun of spamming Dark Speech along the Naberius vestige to recover off the ability damage. It was a cool idea, but the stub was unfinished, and we never really got back to it. It was only recently, when we were talking about Dark Speech in general, that we decided to really look back at it.

Dark Speech is a lot of fun. Beyond the classic (and sometimes dubious) hive mind abuse, it is actually a really powerful debuff for the first half of the game, providing a powerful fear or charm effect with a scaling Charisma-based DC. It works well on any fear-based build, and alongside Naberius for the ability to spam its effect (as well as some excellent social skill maneuvering), it could be the basis for a neat take on the party face.

From there we started looking at other ways Naberius could be used. Some of the obvious options such as hellfire warlock were a bit overplayed and deviated from the general theme, but one area that we’ve rarely seen much focus on was corrupt spells. While many of these spells were underwhelming, there were some real gems in the corrupt spell list. Accessing them meant we’d need to be a prepared caster, and while we could have gone the standard anima mage route, we noticed that there is one class that gets prepared Charisma-based spells: divine crusader. That led us to Tenebrous Apostate, and from there, Tenebriated was born...

THE BASICS

Race: Human, of the standard variety. You’ll need both the feat and the bonus skill point to make all of this come together.
Build Stub: Binder 6/Knight of the Sacred Seal 3/Divine Crusader 1/Tenebrous Apostate 5/Legacy Champion 5
Alignment: Neutral Evil, with an emphasis on the Evil. Make no bones about it: you’re one bad mother-shut-your-mouth.


Tenebriated




Level
Class
Feats
Class Features
Notes (Click to Expand)


1st
Binder 1
Improved Binding, Dreadful Wrath, Willing Deformityvile
Soul binding (1 vestige)
Binder is an extremely front-loaded class, with a ton of great low-level vestiges and the excellent Improved Binding to provide you with early access to them. Naberius is something that’s going to get a lot of mentions, as it enables many of your other abilities and also turns you into one hell of a party face. I’m also a big fan of Malphas for scouting and damage, or Savnok for turtling. Thanks to Dreadful Wrath, a high Charisma and Willing Deformity (the latter of which you get for free if you devote yourself to an elder evil), you’ve got a couple of different ways to inspire fear, which should keep you useful in combat for some time.


2nd
Binder 2

Pact augmentation (1 ability), suppress sign

It’s probably for the best that you can suppress the signs of your vestige if you’re going to spend a lot of time as the party face.



3rd
Binder 3
Weapon Focus (mace)

Both KotSS and divine crusader require Weapon Focus, so here we are. At the low levels, though, that +1 to attack really isn’t the worst. It’s worth noting that in the description of Tenebrous as a deity, no favored weapon was listed. I went with mace here because of the Tenebrous/Orcus link, but talk to your DM about an appropriate favored weapon for the dead god.

More notably, you now have access to 3rd-level vestiges. Focalor in particular is nice for you, with its aura of sadness comboing well with Dreadful Wrath and demoralization, plus a decently strong lightning attack for when you have to deal some damage.


4th
Binder 4
Expel Vestigebonus
Bonus feat

A free bonus feat means you can pick up Expel Vestige, allowing you to swap out one of your bound vestiges once per day. This is incredibly good, as it makes a lot of the more situational vestiges far more likely to see play since you aren’t forced into them for the whole day.



5th
Binder 5
Chosen of Evilvile
Pact augmentation (2 abilities)

Chosen of Evil is a handy little Vile feat that improves with every additional Vile feat you take. If you’ve got Naberius bound and don’t have other plans for your swift/immediate action, it’s basically never going to be a bad idea to activate it for a free bonus on one roll, since you’ll immediately heal off the damage. That being said, you did just get some good competition for that immediate action now that you get access to 4th-level vestiges. Tenebrous will become extremely important to you, allowing you to bounce around with flicker, drape areas in darkness and rebuke or command undead, and you can still use Expel Vestige to switch over to Naberius whenever you need to diplomance or heal off some ability damage.



6th
Binder 6
Dark Speech
Soul guardian (immune to fear)
Sadly you couldn’t quite qualify for Dark Speech via your elder evil devotion last level, but it’s still worth picking up here. This is a very powerful debuff at these levels, able to completely take a good swath of foes out of a fight, and it combos well with your other fear stacking abilities. The Charisma damage might scare you, but with Naberius, you heal it off in a flash. And hey, you’re immune to fear yourself as well, which is always nice.



7th
Knight of the Sacred Seal 1

Aligned strike, patron vestige (Tenebrous), soul binding +1
You’ll need to hit BAB +7 by level 9, but luckily KotSS will let you do just that and is an easy fit, giving you full BAB and progressing all your binding abilities while also giving a couple of handy class features. It requires Weapon Focus, but you need to take that anyhow, so no biggy. Since you’ll be perma-bound to Tenebrous once you start taking levels in Tenebrous Apostate, and it’s one of your best vestiges regardless, it makes sense as your patron vestige choice.



8th
Knight of the Sacred Seal 2

Soul binding +1 (2 vestiges), vestige’s protection
Aah, here we go. Being able to bind two vestiges at once makes such a dramatic difference. Naberius and Tenebrous is a pretty great combo, allowing you to spam Dark Speech, flicker around or command undead, but it’s far from the only option. In particular, with access to 5th-level vestiges, Dantalion and Acerak both present compelling options. And vestige’s protection is always handy as a way for you to get your excellent Charisma bonus to AC.


9th
Knight of the Sacred Seal 3
Imperious Command
Soul binding +1, vestige’s protection aura
Imperious Command is the go-to feat for demoralize-focused characters for a reason. It turns a useful but fairly minor debuff into an absolute gamechanger, especially when combined with the Never Outnumbered skill trick (which you should certainly have by now). And with vestige’s protection aura, your +Cha from vestige’s protection now applies to all adjacent allies, which is always nice.



10th
Divine Crusader of Tenebrous 1
Dark Whispersvile
Aura, domain (trickery)
And here’s why you needed BAB +7 and Weapon Focus. Divine crusader is one of only two prepared Charisma-based casting classes in all of 3.5, so it feeds right in with your Cha-synergy. And why is prepared important? Because of corrupt spells, that’s why! As a prepared evil caster, you can prepare corrupt spells in place of your normal spells. While the trickery domain has some handy spells on its list, it definitely has several weak spots. Disguise self can certainly come in handy, but as it’s duplicated by one of your best vestige options, don’t be afraid to prepare seething eyebane instead. Like dark speech, corrupt spells will cost you some ability damage… but hey, that’s what Naberius is for, right?

Speaking of Dark Speech, since it starts petering out against higher level creatures, you’ll now mostly switch to Dark Whispers instead. This staggers or confuses foes with fewer HD than you, meaning it will continue to scale even after dark speech starts to falter.



11th
Tenebrous Apostate 1

Eternal bondage, Tenebrous’s rebuke
Into tenebrous apostate. You get locked into binding Tenebrous constantly (which is why I recommended you pick Tenebrous as your patron for KotSS), but frankly you could do a lot worse; Tenebrous will basically never be a bad choice, and since you can bind two vestiges at once, it’s hardly a drawback at all.



12th
Tenebrous Apostate 2
Favored Vestige (Zceryll)
Soul binding +1, visage of the dead
Both your soul binding and your casting improves. With second level spells you’ve got some great options. Your domain gives you invisibility, which is always handy, but there are also three great corrupt spells here as well. My favorite is Lahm’s finger darts, where you literally shoot your fingers at people like bloody magic missiles, except they do Dex damage. Dex damage is quite nice, and since your fingers grow back when you heal the corruption ability damage required to cast the spell, you’ll get them back quickly via Naberius. It’s also very metamagic-friendly, so pick up some lesser rods if you can. Oh, and mindless undead think you’re one of them and won’t attack you unless ordered, which is also rather handy considering that they are otherwise immune to your diplomancy or fear tactics.

The big thing here, though, is that alongside Improved Binding you can now bind hit 6th-level vestiges. Zceryll in particular is pretty much undisputed as the best vestige in the game. It’s hard to argue with that assessment, as it gives you a powerful summoning ability, Mindsight and a decent template. This is basically your go-to combat and scouting option, though you’ll likely still expel it once a day for Naberius to heal up ability damage from dark speech or corrupt casting. And with Favored Vestige you even get access to the highest summon monster levels just a little bit early.

Of course, if you ever decide you’re not in the mood for Zceryll, there are a ton of other great binds at this level too. Chupoclops would also be one of the absolute best vestiges if not for Zceryll, giving you pounce, ethereal movement, blindsense and a pretty nasty little aura that puts poor Focalor to shame, and honestly it gives Zceryll a run for its money at this level. Haures is a bit more situational but there are times when getting mind blank is absolutely essential, and it’s not like its other abilities are bad. Basically you’ve got a lot of options.



13th
Tenebrous Apostate 3

Soul binding +1, destroy/empower undead
Another boost to soul binding and casting. Speaking of which, there are six corrupt spells to prepare at this level on top of your domain spell of nondetection. I’m a big fan of the thoroughly ghoulish absorb mind, which basically turns you into Liv from iZombie, allowing you to eat a brain to absorb someone’s thoughts. And thanks to Favored Vestige you currently have access to the SMVI list, in case you want to drop a writhing gargantuan monstrous centipede in the middle of the battlefield.



14th
Tenebrous Apostate 4

Soul binding +1, umbral body
Umbral body is an extremely handy ability, giving you access to incorporeality. Pales a bit in comparison to Chupoclops, but considering that you’ll often prefer to have Naberius or Zceryll bound, it’s still quite useful.



15th
Tenebrous Apostate 5
Rapid Recovery (Zceryll), Deformity (tall)vile
Soul binding +1, blast of the void
With Zceryll only growing in usefulness as you gain levels, it makes sense to grab Rapid Recovery. This reduces the cooldown to 4 rounds, which is often the difference between using it once versus twice in an encounter. That’s especially nice now that you’re up to SMVII summoning. Huge elementals, babau for at-will dispelling, djinni for major creation... you’ve got some great options. You can also bind 7th-level vestiges now, in case you feel like hopping on a horse and binding Eligor for a day, but honestly everything this level offers is going to be less useful than Zceryll or Chupoclops.


16th
Legacy Champion 1

Reduced ritual cost (lesser), bond of lore
You’ve finished out tenebrous apostate, so now what? Well, since it explicitly improves both your binding and your casting at every level past 1st, anything you can do to extend it is key here. Enter legacy champion. You’ll have 15 levels to devote to finding any legacy item you can get your hands on (though if your DM is willing to work with you on it, see the equipment section for advice on ideal legacy weapons). Complete the ritual and gain the associated feat, and that opens up legacy champion. It won’t do much at this level, but after this it will advance tenebrous apostate, which in turn advances both your casting and your binding.



17th
Legacy Champion 2

Replace legacy ability (least), soul binding +1 (3 vestiges)
Being able to swap around your legacy abilities helps if you were only able to get your hands on a less-than-ideal item. Your spells, meanwhile, improve to include mislead, which functions as a combination improved invisibility and major image spell. Or, if you’re feeling cheeky, take consume likeness to permanently gain the ability to change your form into that of a creature whose flesh you’ve consumed at-will.

Most important here, however, is the fact that you can now bind three vestiges at a time. This is a significant power boost. Your default will likely be Zceryll/Tenebrous/Naberius or Zceryll/Tenebrous/Chupoclops, but you’ve got some very good options.


18th
Legacy Champion 3
Practiced Spellcaster (divine crusader)
Extra legacy ability use (least), soul binding +1
On the spellcasting side, screen is a bit situational, but take a look at death by thorns. You can affect up to three creatures with it, and it’s guaranteed to incapacitate them for 1d4 rounds with no save, and kill them on a failed save. It’s touch range, but the fact that you can hit multiple creatures and are guaranteed to take them out of action for a while puts it head and shoulders above pretty much any other save or die for the level. And thanks to the deformity feat you took as your most recent vile feat, you have reach, making the touch range even less of an issue. Speaking of spellcasting, as divine crusaders have absolutely terrible caster levels, go ahead and take Practiced Spellcaster to shore that up. Between this and a bead of karma, you should actually be competitive with other casters of your level.

Meanwhile, on the binding side, you finally pick up 8th-level vestiges, meaning for the first time you have some competition for Chupoclops and Zceryll (though let’s be real, those two are still up there as the best). Halphax and Ordos are both phenomenal binds, and imprisonment from Halphax in particular can be really deadly. This level also brings you up to SMVIII with Zceryll. Want to summon a greater elemental, or a colossal monstrous centipede, or a vrock? Now you can!



19th
Legacy Champion 4
Channel Legacybonus
Bonus legacy feat, soul binding +1
Your bonus legacy feat won’t matter much, but I like Channel Legacy for the ability to convert otherwise situational legacy abilities into flat bonuses to various checks. As for your spellcasting, the trickery domain really starts paying off here: polymorph any object is easily one of the best spells ever printed, and can be scaled up or down based on the optimization level of the party. If that doesn’t suit your fancy, though, you can always prep evil weather or plague of nightmares instead.



20th
Legacy Champion 5
Insane Defiancevile
Replace legacy ability (lesser), soul binding +1

You close things out with 9th-level spells off of the trickery domain, which means picking up the ever-useful time stop. You’ve got quite a bit you can do to take advantage of this, including possibly even multiple summons via Zceryll if you roll well. (You also get apocalypse from the sky as a corrupt spell, but lol no one wants that).

And as far as Zceryll itself goes, you also end things out with an effective binder level of 18, giving you enough to summon off the SMIX list. Elder elementals are probably the best combat option here, though you can also use this summon to access a wide variety of spells and SLAs that would ordinarily be unavailable to you. Not too bad, as far as capstones go.





Charisma, Charisma, Charisma. You’re a party face with a number of abilities that have Charisma-based DCs. You’ll also need an Int of 15 by ECL 6 to qualify for Dark Speech (which will help to ensure your skills stay relevant as well).

SAMPLE STAT ARRAYS:
28-point buy: Str 8/Dex 12/Con 12/Int 15/Wis 10/Cha 16
32-point buy: Str 8/Dex 12/Con 14/Int 16/Wis 10/Cha 16



As a party face, you’ll definitely want the big three: diplomacy, intimidate and bluff. The first two should be maxed out, while the latter doesn’t necessarily have to be. The Never Outnumbered skill trick is also going to be valuable whenever you’re able to take it, and you’ll want some ranks in knowledge (nobility & royalty) for the synergy bonus.

Your requirements beyond that aren’t too arduous: you’ll need 8 ranks in knowledge (religion), 5 ranks apiece in knowledge (history) and knowledge (religion) and 4 ranks in spellcraft. As a human with a starting Intelligence of at least 15, you shouldn’t have any trouble meeting these while also keeping all of your social skills maxed.



Charisma boosters are a must, as are any skill-boosters for your social skills such as the circlet of persuasion. A soul lens or veil of allure will boost the DC not only of your binder abilities but also of your Dark Speech/Whispers. Any lesser metamagic rods are also handy for spells like Lahm’s finger darts, which can quickly turn from a debuff into a no save just lose spell with a little bit of metamagic.

You also will be required to have a legacy item. These are… a mixed bag, to say the least. I tried not to focus too much on this in the build itself, since they are so DM-dependent. Remember that while you have the ability to perform the lesser ritual for free, you don’t actually have to ever progress your weapon of legacy beyond its least ritual in case you find yourself with a stinker. The fact that you can replace or modify legacy abilities as a legacy champion helps a bit.

As far as written weapons of legacy go, there are a few that aren’t too bad. Vicious is probably the easiest and most direct: you already qualify for it, the ritual is a cakewalk and it gives a sizable bonus to Intimidate checks. Celdoriath’s Clarion has requirements/rituals that are a bit harder to meet (though still easily doable) and offers some handy abilities, in particular fell blast for mass demoralization. The associated fluff isn’t a great fit, though. Skull Lash is kind of an obvious choice and another one you can qualify for easily, though nothing it gives is that useful. Mindsplinter is an easy fit fluff-wise with a couple of synergistic abilities. Planeshifter’s Knife will just require picking up a few new languages, with some pretty easy rituals. Infiltrator isn’t hard to accomplish with your vestiges, though it’s pretty meh overall. Ghostfolly’s Gloves aren’t all that useful and would require sinking some skill points into otherwise unnecessary skills, but they’ve got a couple of cute abilities.



BUILD SUMMARY
Right off the cuff you’ve got 8th-level vestiges and 9th-level spells (from a limited list, but one that includes some doozies like polymorph any object and time stop, and as it is prepared casting it opens up corrupt spells as well). Your effective binder level when binding Zceryll is 18, meaning you can summon creatures off the summon monster IX list. With a standard triple whammy of Naberius/Tenebrous/Zceryll you should have plenty of options in all arenas: offensive, defensive and utility. I’m talking immediate action teleportation, incorporeality, mindsight, etc. You can take ten on social skills and use Diplomacy as a standard action without penalty, and demoralize or stagger groups of foes with a word. You have a particularly supercharged Intimidate check, Imperious Command and the ability to add +6 to almost any check every round as an immediate action. Against the undead who might otherwise be immune to your diplomacy or fear tactics, not only do mindless undead automatically see you as one of their own, but you also rebuke as a 17th-level cleric (with a much higher Charisma than your typical cleric).

You start getting to the good stuff right away, with Improved Binding and Dreadful Wrath from level one and Dark Speech/Chosen of Evil plus Naberius by level 6 to spam powerful debuffs or boost your own attacks and checks while regenerating off the damage every round. And with a nearly Charisma-SAD build (other than the required 15 Int for Dark Speech and keeping your skills up, Charisma powers every other ability) and a preference for Naberius, you’ll be a fantastic party face in addition to being a summoner, debuffer and whatever else you feel like being that day.

VARIANTS
If you don’t expect to make it to level 20 or you aren’t concerned with hitting 9th-level summons via Zceryll, you gain a bit of flexibility in how you meet all your qualifications. One nice option is going in with binder 8/warblade 1 instead of binder 6/KotSS 3, with the rest of the build all remaining the same. While you’ll lose out on 9th-level summoned critters, taking warblade at that level will give you 3rd-level maneuvers. I recommend picking up the leading the charge as your stance and white raven tactics, wall of blades and iron heart surge as your maneuvers, all of which will be extremely useful. You’ll still close things out with 8th-level vestiges and 9th-level spells, so it’s not a terrible trade at all despite the slightly delayed binder progression and lack of SMIX.

Tenebrous apostate explicitly allows you to worship Orcus instead of Tenebrous (being that they’re both aspects of the same being). There are some alignment conflicts here with divine crusader and knight of the sacred seal, as Orcus is CE versus Tenebrous’ NE, and a KotSS cannot be Chaotic. However, if you are either playing in a game where alignment requirements are relaxed or you use the warblade variant mentioned above, Orcus does have access to the demonic domain, which is actually pretty nice, giving you some handy buff spells alongside powerhouses like planar binding and gate.

SOURCES

Binder, knight of the sacred seal, Tenebrous apostate, Tenebrous deity info, Improved Binding, Expel Vestige, Favored Vestige, Rapid Recovery, vestiges: Tome of Magic
Divine crusader, Practiced Spellcaster: Complete Divine
Legacy champion, Channel Legacy: Weapons of legacy
Elder evil devotion, Willing Deformity, Deformity (tall), Chosen of Evil, Dark Speech, Dark Whispers, Insane Defiance: Elder Evils
Corrupt spells: Book of Vile Darkness
Imperious Command: Drow of the Underdark
Dreadful Wrath: Player’s Guide to Faerun


***

And that’s that! Please let us know what you think in the comments, and what you’d like to see for future showcases!

Piggy Knowles
2020-05-21, 10:39 AM
Click here for a list of all prior showcases! (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24372982&postcount=2)

Icarium
2020-05-22, 04:28 AM
I like this! To have so many tools and possibilites/abilities, both in and out of combat, is fantastic!!

If it could be done with good alignment I'd switch characters in my current game! *Hinthint, nudgenudge*

I'm bookmarking all of your optimization threads Piggy, but this is so far my favourite!

Efrate
2020-05-22, 06:09 AM
Always love binder showcases. It's my favorite class for a reason.

Doctor Despair
2020-05-22, 09:56 AM
I like this! To have so many tools and possibilites/abilities, both in and out of combat, is fantastic!!

If it could be done with good alignment I'd switch characters in my current game! *Hinthint, nudgenudge*

I'm bookmarking all of your optimization threads Piggy, but this is so far my favourite!

You'd lose out on all the vile feats :/ Even if the DM ruled that you could gain the vile feats as an evil character devoted to an elder evil and then change alignment later, you'd need them to rule favorably that you don't lose the benefits of the feats despite no longer being evil, I suppose. Alignment isn't strictly listed as a prerequisite, so you don't automatically lose the benefit, but it's DM fiat whether or not your former patron revokes your supernatural boons.

Piggy Knowles
2020-05-22, 11:01 AM
If it could be done with good alignment I'd switch characters in my current game! *Hinthint, nudgenudge*


Unfortunately a lot of core elements of this build are non-negotiably Evil. Dark Speech is a big one, and its Goodly counterpart (Words of Creation) just isn't equivalent for this build's purposes. Vile feats are right out, meaning no Chosen of Evil spamming for a constant boost to your skills any time you have your immediate action free. Perhaps biggest of all, Tenebrous Apostate is off the table entirely.

That being said, you could certainly build a similar face-focused binder with a lot of these similar tricks as a Good or even Exalted character. Dreadful Wrath and Imperious Command are as effective as ever, and Sanctified spells are overall probably stronger than Corrupt spells and have a similar synergy with Naberius. If your DM approved either a Good version of Tenebrous Apostate or a divine adaptation of Anima Mage (both of which are referenced in ToM as possible adaptations), you could more or less keep the core build intact. If you did that then I'd bump Imperious Command down to level 6, as it is the closest thing you have to a spammable debuff like Dark Speech.

Let's say you go with the adaptation on p66 of ToM, which says that you can instead have a Tenebrous Apostate dedicated to any god of death. Divine Crusader requires you to share your deity's alignment, and there aren't any Good deities with the Death domain. However, you could certainly call Osiris a deity of death and he is LG, so that's a potential option. In that case I'd probably go with the Plant domain as your Divine Crusader domain, since it has some handy utility/BFC on its list (entangle, barkskin, wall of thorns are all very nice).

Unfortunately that will require you to be proficient in the flail to qualify for divine crusader, which means that you'll probably want to go with the warblade version I mentioned in variants. Start by taking weapon focus in anything you might find useful, then use your warblade's aptitude to retrain it to the flail once you take that level, allowing you to qualify as a divine crusader of Osiris.

That would let you go with something like this:

1 Binder1- Improved Binding, Dreadful Wrath
2 Binder2-
3 Binder3- Weapon Focus (any simple weapon)
4 Binder4- Expel Vestigebonus
5 Binder5-
6 Binder6- Imperious Command
7 Knight of the Sacred Seal1-
8 Knight of the Sacred Seal2-
9 Warblade1- Nymph's Kiss
-->Leading the chargestance, white raven tactics, wall of blade, iron heart surge
10 Divine Crusader of Osiris1-
11 Tenebrous Apostate1-
12 Tenebrous Apostate2- Practiced Spellcaster (divine crusader)
13 Tenebrous Apostate3-
14 Tenebrous Apostate4-
15 Tenebrous Apostate5- Favored Vestige (Zceryll)
16 Legacy Champion1-
17 Legacy Champion2-
18 Legacy Champion3- Rapid Recovery (Zceryll)
19 Legacy Champion4- Channel Legacybonus
20 Legacy Champion5-

Not being able to spam Dark Speech for a long-lasting area fear effect with a scaling DC is pretty sad, as is missing out on SMIX via Zceryll, but a lot of the core tactics of the build remain the same. You are less reliant on Naberius early on, though, which means you get a bit more flexibility with vestige selection in the early- to mid-levels. Having access to WRT alongside Zceryll is pretty neat, though, I can't lie, and Nymph's Kiss is great. Also as mentioned, you get a slight advantage in terms of spells: there are some real doozies on the Sanctified spell list, including the channel celestial line, the luminous armor line, Aiyala's radiant burst, constricting chains and dragon cloud.

Troacctid
2020-05-22, 11:24 AM
If you're primarily binding Naberius, Silver Tongue is a really great feat with him. It's from Dragon #318 but it's technically legal under Iron Chef rules because it's an update of Oriental Adventures.

Hawk12192
2020-05-22, 11:37 AM
I have always loved the flavor of a binder. Thank you for sharing this!

Piggy Knowles
2020-05-23, 12:09 PM
If you're primarily binding Naberius, Silver Tongue is a really great feat with him. It's from Dragon #318 but it's technically legal under Iron Chef rules because it's an update of Oriental Adventures.

Ooh, that's a fun one. Definitely a good addition here.

And while we’re discussing, here are some teasers for builds that are pretty much finished, with just the write-up pending. Let us know what you’d like to see next time! (As always, names subject to change.)


Army of Darkness: What happens when the Deadites get a boomstick of their own?
Fear and Loathing in Celestia: This one’s a real holy terror.
Stomp the Yard: Crushed underfoot.
Bob the Builder: Can he build it? Yes he can!

PoeticallyPsyco
2020-05-23, 04:27 PM
I'm always down for a fear build, so my vote goes to Fear & Loathing in Celestia. (And if it's a loathing build instead... well that sounds interesting, too!)

TheCount
2020-05-23, 05:29 PM
These are great!

Im interested in Bob, the builder.
Though im always up for stealth and utiliy:P

Efrate
2020-05-23, 07:44 PM
Fear and loathing in celestia sounds interesting.

Also binder is likely much requested because I mention ToM in every one of these I think xD. It helps that the variety of vestiges all do many different things so you can take a couple and just run with it and get something. And you can always play maybe better summoner by tossing zycrell on with anything else you feel like.

Ashardalon Reborn back on the old wotc boards was the genesis of me knowing that ToM existed and that PO was a thing. I had just finished running bastion of broken souls not too long before that so it really jumped out at me.

Nifft
2020-05-23, 08:29 PM
Overall this is great.

The only thing here which I don't like is Legacy Champion.

What would you do if Weapons of Legacy were unavailable, for example if its hardback were broken in battle, its rules driven before you, and you were listening to the lamentations of its weapons?


EDIT: I guess the obvious would be +2 KotSS and then 3 levels of Uncanny Trickster. Not as good, but not awful.

WhamBamSam
2020-05-23, 09:14 PM
Overall this is great.

The only thing here which I don't like is Legacy Champion.

What would you do if Weapons of Legacy were unavailable, for example if its hardback were broken in battle, its rules driven before you, and you were listening to the lamentations of its weapons?


EDIT: I guess the obvious would be +2 KotSS and then 3 levels of Uncanny Trickster. Not as good, but not awful.Uncanny Trickster 3/Casting 2. Losing 9th level summons is unfortunate, but not as unfortunate as losing PAO and Time Stop, even if the latter isn't as good for you as for some.

Piggy Knowles
2020-05-23, 10:01 PM
Uncanny Trickster 3/Casting 2. Losing 9th level summons is unfortunate, but not as unfortunate as losing PAO and Time Stop, even if the latter isn't as good for you as for some.

This, yeah. EBL 15 will still be enough to bind 8th level vestiges with Improved Binding and access SMVIII via Zceryll thanks to Favored Vestige. 8th- and 9th-level spells will likely be a lot more useful than going up to SMIX, which is the main thing you miss out on.

TalonOfAnathrax
2020-05-24, 02:56 PM
I'd vote for Bob the builder, or for the first one ("giving Deadites a boomstick" is a good sell).

Miss Disaster
2020-05-24, 09:37 PM
Bob the Builder sounds quite intriguing!