Bypassing Animate Dead HD requirement

[Lyelle]

Something that I regularly see in discussions of undead minions is that the animate dead spell cannot animate skeletons or zombies with greater than 20 or 10 HD respectively, as per the rules under the skeleton/zombie template.


If the creature has more than 20 Hit Dice, it can’t be made into a skeleton by the animate dead spell.

This usually leads to people mentioning that dragons make the best undead because of the Skeleton/Zombie Dragon template in Draconomicon which bypasses this HD limit.

However, Plague of Undead is a spell not named "animate undead" which can reanimate creatures as skeletons and zombies. Does this bypass the HD limit for reanimation? And what are some other ways we can bypass this HD limit?

[magicalmagicman]

If what you say is true then the answer is yes.

The hd limit of animate dead is located in the TEMPLATE description. So if something creates skeleton or zombie templated creatures and is not named animate dead, there is no hd limit.

Another method is using the metamagic feat Fell Animate.

[TheCount]

There are also magic items that make undeads, some of them also puts them under your control, and explicitly says thier control pool is a separate one from all other control pools.
Also, different spells too, Animate dead warrior is the most popular one, as it makes intelligent undead and stichable.

[ShurikVch]

I already answered similar question some time ago, so there is the link (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23520648&postcount=4) :smallwink:



The hd limit of animate dead is located in the TEMPLATE description. So if something creates skeleton or zombie templated creatures and is not named animate dead, there is no hd limit.Correction:

animate dead spell
Say, Rot Reaver and Necrothane (Monster Manual III) are have Animate Dead (Su), which doesn't says it's based on the spell



Also, different spells too, Animate dead warrior is the most popular one, as it makes intelligent undead and stichable.
Correction: Animate Dread Warrior

[Aotrs Commander]

The hd limit of animate dead is located in the TEMPLATE description. So if something creates skeleton or zombie templated creatures and is not named animate dead, there is no hd limit.

Another method is using the metamagic feat Fell Animate.

That was a really stupid piece of wording on their part. (Pathfinder, oddly, removed that limitation from the zombie template - but didn't add it to Animate Undead - but retained it for skeletons.) That limitation should have been in the text for the spell OR if they INTENDED (as they probably did) it to apply globally and just never considered that there might be a) things that were not Animate Dead that would create skeletons/zombies and b) people would WANT to create more Undead, the "animate dead spell" part should have been omitted from the template.

(See also: how 3.0/3.5 borked swarms in PF by having half the rules on how you're supposed to fight them in the MONSTER desciripton for vermin swarms, not in the Swarm subtype rules where they were intended to go, then compounded it by vastly over-CRing weapon-immune swarms and being really unclear (or the topic would'd be hotly debated) on what sort of effects (e.g. rays) are suppposed to affect the or not...)

Considering it's one of the more problematic issues to do with necromancy (where the best option is "use a feat they released in one book that almost certainly RAI wouldn't have worked how they we they actually WROTE it to work.")

I'm fine with the limitation on Animate Dead (it's only a low-level spell after all), but really, the way they impliemented it leaves a lot to be desired. I mean,frack's sake, Pale Master was in 3.0, they knew non-NPC necromancy was A Thing people wanted...

(I have moved the offending text to the actual spell, not the template, for my house-rules.)

[Biggus]

However, Plague of Undead is a spell not named "animate undead" which can reanimate creatures as skeletons and zombies. Does this bypass the HD limit for reanimation? And what are some other ways we can bypass this HD limit?

By RAW yes Plague of Undead can create skeletons and zombies of more than 20HD, and considering that it's a 9th-level spell I don't think it's at all unreasonable for it to do that.


I already answered similar question some time ago, so there is the link (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23520648&postcount=4)


What book is the spell Putrefaction in?

[ShurikVch]

What book is the spell Putrefaction in?Dragon #300

[Lyelle]

I already answered similar question some time ago, so there is the link :smallwink:


Awesome! This is exactly what I was looking for! :smallsmile: