Path of War - Maneuver Questions

[Wolfswift]

So I'm gearing up to play a Knight-Chandler/Aurora Soul Mystic in an upcoming Pathfinder first edition game with my group. But I noticed some peculiarities in some maneuvers that I can't quite figure out myself.

Firstly, the simpler one is this: The Silver Crane maneuver Exorcism Strike (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Exorcism_Strike) deals extra damage to undead and evil-outsiders with a fort save to daze them, but... aren't undead immune to anything requiring a fort save unless it affects objects or is harmless? I suspect the answer to this is just that that effect is for the evil-outsiders only, but maybe there's precedent for undead being affected by fort saves when explicitly stating it affects them?

The second question is more complicated. I was making maneuver cards for being able to easily randomize my granted maneuvers and such and found a few maneuvers seem to be untyped. It was my understanding that every maneuver was either a Strike, Boost, Counter or Stance? But Veiled Moon has three maneuvers that seem to have no type: Ethereal Reminiscence, (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Ethereal_Reminiscence) Fading Leap, (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Fading_Leap) & Fade Through. (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Fade_Through) Radiant Dawn has one in Noblesse Oblige. (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Noblesse_Oblige) Cursed Razor has one in Woedrinker, (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Woedrinker) and finally Golden Lion has it's final 9th level maneuver, Lord of the Pridelands (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Lord_of_the_Pridelands) untyped.

I don't know if this is intentional or a mistake, part of me just wants to label these whatever they seem closest to, Counter, Boost or Strike. But... part of that is because Knight-Chandler adds extra illumination to their pool when they initiate a boost. Otherwise it's just my OCD at them not having a type when they need to have a type, don't they?

[DeTess]

So I'm gearing up to play a Knight-Chandler/Aurora Soul Mystic in an upcoming Pathfinder first edition game with my group. But I noticed some peculiarities in some maneuvers that I can't quite figure out myself.

Firstly, the simpler one is this: The Silver Crane maneuver Exorcism Strike (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Exorcism_Strike) deals extra damage to undead and evil-outsiders with a fort save to daze them, but... aren't undead immune to anything requiring a fort save unless it affects objects or is harmless? I suspect the answer to this is just that that effect is for the evil-outsiders only, but maybe there's precedent for undead being affected by fort saves when explicitly stating it affects them?


I suspect the specific wording of the maneuver trumps the more general undead immunity, as the maneuver specifically says undead need to make the save.


The second question is more complicated. I was making maneuver cards for being able to easily randomize my granted maneuvers and such and found a few maneuvers seem to be untyped. It was my understanding that every maneuver was either a Strike, Boost, Counter or Stance? But Veiled Moon has three maneuvers that seem to have no type: Ethereal Reminiscence, (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Ethereal_Reminiscence) Fading Leap, (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Fading_Leap) & Fade Through. (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Fade_Through) Radiant Dawn has one in Noblesse Oblige. (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Noblesse_Oblige) Cursed Razor has one in Woedrinker, (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Woedrinker) and finally Golden Lion has it's final 9th level maneuver, Lord of the Pridelands (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Lord_of_the_Pridelands) untyped.

I don't know if this is intentional or a mistake, part of me just wants to label these whatever they seem closest to, Counter, Boost or Strike. But... part of that is because Knight-Chandler adds extra illumination to their pool when they initiate a boost. Otherwise it's just my OCD at them not having a type when they need to have a type, don't they?


I don't think this is a mistake, and I don't think every maneuver needs to have a maneuver type. In fact, I suspect the veiled moon manneuvers are untyped because they are movement abilities, and likely will see at least as much use outside of combat as in, so they probably wanted to avoid them interacting with abilities like the one you mentioned. The same goes for woederinker, as it can be spammed outside of combat for temp hp. As for the remaining two, the only reason why they might be untyped is that they do odd things for their action type. I don't think there are many free action maneuvers, and the lord of the pridelands would probably be typed a boost, but I don't know of any other boosts that are a standard action. Maybe it was left untyped to stop an interaction where something else allows someone to do a boost as a free action?

[Powerdork]

From the Systems and Use chapter, describing (TYPE): "Most martial abilities fall into one of four categories: boosts, counters, stances, or strikes. Very few maneuvers don’t fall into any of these categories, and they are exceptions to the rule. "


As for undead, "If the target is neither undead nor an evil outsider, this attack inflicts an additional 2d6 points of damage, and does not daze the target."
This exclusion implies undead's specific inclusion, and specifics can beat general rules.

Make sure you've got the errata. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XOaJTBE8Knb_PYjZV1T4m-7pqVA__yWe/view)

[Kris Moonhand]

I believe in the PoW FAQ thread one of the devs said that certain maneuvers are untyped to prevent unwanted synergy with other abilities, like things that let you expend a readied boost to do something else, or "whenever you initiate a counter, you may also" kind of things.

[Wolfswift]

I think that covers previous questions, but another couple questions have come up.

1. I found the Fool's Errand (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Fool%27s_Errand) discipline and I'm thinking of switching into it since I'm the tank and healer of the group, keeping enemies from leaving me to seek my allies sounds cool. so it looks interesting, but I've read and reread the Locked condition and I'm still not sure I get it. I'm not fully certain but it sounds like it prevents the opponent from taking move actions to move fr the square you locked them in unless they succeed at a reflex save to avoid being locked or break out of it with a save. Is that right? They can still fight and take full attacks and such, right? It's not full on paralysis, right?

Also it mentions it can be a will save if fluffed right and GM allows. Since I'm doing unarmed and monk like I was thinking I'd fluff it like a chakra lock, after my attack they find themselves incapable of moving away due to like my unarmed strikes disrupting their body's chakra flows. Does that sound like it'd be will save material? I'll ask my GM I know, this one's just asking opinions.

2. I've found certain maneuvers in Thrashing Dragon (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Thrashing_Dragon) like Thrashing Blades (https://libraryofmetzofitz.fandom.com/wiki/Thrashing_Blades) seems to state you can attack with two weapons and make unarmed strikes, so I'm wondering if my two weapons are unarmed strikes, would I get additional attacks with them from this? Or does this explitely only gain such a benefit if you weilded two manufactured weapons? What if I used gauntlets and then did unarmed strikes with legs and such?

[Powerdork]

Yeah, locking is just meant to prevent people from squeaking out of the bad position you put them in, and it's not meant to be hell like grapple rules are.
I think it'd be cool to see the effect you describe, but definitely start thinking of how you'd describe the effect on 1) a clay golem, 2) an owlbear, and 3) a gelatinous cube.

Your unarmed strike attacks are, for most intents and purposes, weapon attacks. Even moreso if you're using a cestus or gauntlet.
When this particular strike specifies you make a full attack with everything, it reads at first glance like "use both of your manufactured weapons, as well as your natural attacks and unarmed strikes, to make a full attack", but what it actually means is "using manufactured weapons and natural weapons both, even if you'd normally exclude one because of the other, make a full attack".
However, when Fool's Errand strikes like Blade-Dance Ballet mention "As part of this strike, make an attack with a weapon you are wielding and three unarmed strike attacks", that's more explicit and it tells you that you make four attacks, three of which must be with your unarmed strike (see "Fool's Errand and Unarmed Strikes", pg. 2-3).