Summon Undead, Pathfinder style

[Aotrs Commander]

So, as I can apparently NEVER find enough crap to be doing, I have been idly considering for some time as I do stuff that Summon Undead needs a bit of expansion. It feels off that it only reaches to level V, when all the other summons get to XI.

I want to fix that. Hell, if for no other reason that in the CRPGs, Animate/Create are functionally Summon Undead and those spells almost always Teh Bomb. (This was promoted by me a) working on Pale Master and True Necromancer 3.Aotrs overhauls last night *shakes fist at Consecrate/Desercrate/Hallow/Unhallow having previously skipped turn=> channel rules that required adding and re-paginating entire 300-page spel document for second time in 24 hours* and by other undead-related discussions.)

So. Pathfinder-ising the current list has got me to this point with I to V.

Summon Undead
Conjuration (Summoning) [Evil; see text]
Level: Apn 1-4, Clr/Ora 1-9, DrdNec 1-9, Sha 1-9, Sor/Wiz 1-9, Wit 1-9

The undead you summon appear in a burst of smoke and fog. The vapor swiftly dissipates, but you can't shake the impression of screaming faces in the cloud's tendrils.

These spells function as Summon Monster of the appropriate level (I to V IX), except that you summon one or more Undead creatures.

Summoned undead do not count toward either your Animate Dead control limit or your Command Undead limit. No undead creature you summon can have more Hit Dice than your caster level +1. (This last sentence can probably go to be honest, I think it's a factor ofSummon Undead being a bit half-arsed.)

If you are a cleric of a Good deity whose deity grants access to the Death (or any subdomains) or Deathbound domain, you may cast this spell despite its alignment descriptor.

Focus: A tiny bag, a small (not lit) candle, and a carved bone from any humanoid.

Note: Undead with * were ones that I created for either this or another spell, described below for reference. Excuse it being in 3.Aotrs stat blocks, but they will be close enough for comparison (part of my WHOLE point of going more PF than 3.5 was that it made it much less faff to use PF mnster stat block!) Everything else is the PF version, with perhaps a slight tweak/addition of tangential importance to the topic of debate.

Summon Undead I
Choose from the following list:
Skeleton, Human Warrior
Zombie, Human Zombie

Summon Undead II
Choose from the following list:
Apparition*
Ghoul

Summon Undead III
Choose from the following list:
Ghast
Skeletal Champion, Human

Summon Undead IV
Choose from the following list:
Allip
Shadow
Wight
Zombie Lord

Summon Undead V
Choose from the following list:
Mummy
Skeleton Mage*

Summon Undead VI
Choose from the following list:
?

Summon Undead VII
Choose from the following list:
?

Summon Undead VIII
Choose from the following list:
?

Summon Undead IX
Choose from the following list:
?



So, what can we suggest to fill the gaps. I'm no so familair with PF's bestiary (I tend only to look at stuff there on a case-by-case basis as it is called by a module or spell or something), so suggestions would be helpful. I'm generally looking for PF stuff (since we either play on Golarion or my homebrew campaign world (which will have it's own set of summon lists eventually (since a Dreemanhyll ghoul and a 3.x/PF ghoul are not the same monster), but I DID play Icewind Dale II, so whatever they big skeleton doofers were (Boneclaws? Bonelords?) are potentially on the table, because I am a sucker for "take stuff I've played on computer and apply to tabletop."

Obviously, there is a certain tempation for me in particular to slather the lists full of skeleton champion/mummy/zombie lord templated creatures, but I kind of want to not go overboard on that, y'know. (Besides, Luminous Assassin needs something a bit special for itself, since it actually summons something worth a frack now...!)


As my start for ten, Grave knight is an obvious consideration (since PF:KM used it for Create Undead) for Summon VI.




Apparition
Human Apparition
N Medium Undead (Incorporeal)
HD 2D8+3 (12hp) Init +0 SPD Fly 30’ (Perfect) SPACE 5/5
AC 10/10/10
BAB +1 CMB +1 (Dex) CMD 11/11
ATTACK +1 Incorporeal Corrupting Touch (D6)
SQ Darkvision 60’, Incorporeal
SV Fort +0 Ref +0 Will +3
Str - Dex 10 Con - Int 10 Wis 11 Cha 10
Fly +12, Intimidate +4, Perception +4, Sense Motive +4
Toughness
CR 1
Corrupting Touch (Su): Apparitions have an incorporeal touch attack. By passing part of its incorporeal body through a foe’s body as a Standard action, the apparition inflicts a number of D6s equal to its CR in damage. This damage is not negative energy—it manifests in the form of physical wounds and aches from supernatural aging. Creatures immune to magical aging are immune to this damage, but otherwise the damage bypasses all forms of damage reduction. A DC 11 Fortitude save halves the damage inflicted.
Languages: Common

Apparitions are fundementally a re-skinned Petitioner, which was created for the use of the 3.Aotrs Summon Spirit spell, but it made sense to add it to the list.


Skeleton Mage (Summoned Monster)
Human Skeletal Champion Sorcerer 4
NE Medium Undead
HD 6D8+12 (39hp) Init +6 SPD 30’ SPACE 5/5
AC 14/12/12 (+2 Dex, +2 Natural)
BAB +3 CMB +3 CMD 15/13
ATTACK +5 ranged touch
+5 Launch Bolt (D8, 19-20)
2 +3 Claws (D4)
SQ Channel Resistance +4, Damage Reduction 5/Bludeoning, Darkvision 60’, Immune to Cold and Shadow
SV Fort +3 Ref +3 Will +7
Str 11 Dex 14 Con - Int 11 Wis 10 Cha 15
Concentration +11, Knowledge (Arcana) +9, Perception +5, Spellcraft +9
Deadly Aim, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Improved InitiativeB
CR 5
Spells: Sorcerer Spells 7/4 Caster level 4 DC 12+lvl
0th: Acid Splash, Electric Jolt, Gnat’s Bite, Launch Bolt, Launch Item, Ray of Frost
1st: Lesser Orb of Cold, Lesser Orb of Electricity, Lesser Orb of Fire
2nd: Scorching Ray
Equipment: 10 Bolts, 10 flasks of Acid (D6)

Because Diablo 2 exists.

(Gnat's Bite is a 3.Aotrs Force offense ranged touch cantrip, for the record.)

[NotASpiderSwarm]

Quick question: Do you want these spells to give the caster combat ability, combat utility, or overall utility? Combat ability means big damage bruisers, combat utility means lots of movement modes, fear auras, negative levels, etc, and overall utility means stuff the summons can do stuff outside of combat(besides walk into traps).

Also, did you remove the ability to summon 1d3//1d4+1 lower level monsters or was that a source removal? That's a big way summoners get flexibility, that a summon spell prepared at a higher level can be used to grab a couple useful monsters from the lower list without necessarily having to spend a slot on that particular SM spell.

I feel like you should have 1 skeleton and 1 zombie at each spell level, both as a "safe" option and as a clear benchmark to show the spell's improvement. Things that you need that I don't see on the list (specific monsters are just suggestions, you just need something to fill the slot):
Zombies with fly and swim speeds, preferably with low, mid, and high-level versions, so that the player always has an option of summoning something that's at least passable in the current environment. Shark, Giant Crocodile, Giant Squid for water and Eagle, Harpy, and Dragon for air. I'd specifically make summoning a Zombie Dragon a big deal, it should be a large or larger option and significantly scary. Non-zombies can work for this too, especially at high levels, but templated undead are really easy to fine-tune which base creature you use for balance.
Large-sized bruisers. Giants, Ogres, or Minotaurs are all interesting options. Definitely these should be watched so they don't overshadow the fighter, but at the same time, past a certain level, the party mage adding another brute to the fight really isn't worth the action cost, so it's probably better to pick weaker monsters as the base if that puts it at a low enough spell level to be used.

If you're looking for variety in the undead it summons, check Libris Mortis. There's a bunch of undead in there with abilities that you don't really see elsewhere*. If you're mostly looking for stuff to stay the same but with better bonuses, templates are probably the way to go.

*though you will have to rebalance them for PF.

[Aotrs Commander]

Okay, so I shelved this for a bit, but I had another stab at it today (taking on board what NotASpiderSwarm suggested), as a break from doing the final spell lsists.

(As I have made myself stop doing this more than two nights per week!)

In the end, there has been no substitute for simply going through the bestiary (and Libris Mortis) looking for stuff.

I have leaned away fom just adding "skeleton/zombie" everything, since there was not really a big shortage of beatsticks. I have at the moment a nominal plan to have one sort of templated or classed creature at each level

Current list is as follows (with things I'm considering marked with "??" I'm thinking about 5 options per level (2-4 at the 7/8/9 would do, I think). Struggling a bit for the very bottom level (what there is consitently CR 1/3 but maybe something like adding a bottom-level exoskeleton which would be 1/2?)

Summon Undead I
Choose from the following list:
Beheaded
Skeleton, Human Warrior
Zombie, Human Zombie


Summon Undead II
Choose from the following list:
Beheaded Skull Swarm
Apparition*
Ghoul
Skeletal Mount

Summon Undead III
Choose from the following list:
Armoured Ogre Skeleton
Ghast
Skeletal Champion, Human
Vampire Spawn
??Tomb Mote?? (Libris Mortis, modifed (revised as PF Choker with regard to its extra action to only be a Move action)

Summon Undead IV
Choose from the following list:
Allip
Shadow
Skulking Cyst (Lib Mortis - the spells are in the houserules, so the stats needed to be added anyway, so it seemed like it might as well go on the list)
Wight
Zombie Lord

Summon Undead V
Choose from the following list:
Boneclaw (MM3 already had the stats updated to PF standard)
Deathweb
Mummy
Skeleton Mage*
Wraith

Summon Undead VI
Choose from the following list:
Ghoul Monk (new stats, inspired by the Lib Mort Gravetouched Ghoul, CR 7)
Mohrg
Spectre
??Bleakborn?? (Lib Mortis, CR 7)

Summon Undead VII
Choose from the following list:
Baykok
??stock PF Vampire?? (Sorceror 8) (CR 9)

Summon Undead VIII
Choose from the following list:
??stock PF Lich?? (Necromancer 11) (CR 12)
??stock Gravenight ?? (Fighter 10) (CR 11)

Summon Undead IX
Choose from the following list:
??Spirit-Bound Lich/Skeleton?? (3.Aotrs template (+2 CR), therefore CR approx 13-14 (class level 11-12, could be any class, caster or otherwise - maybe cleric, since the earlier ones have been sor or wiz and the spells it will have will be fixed?))



Thoughts and suggestions? I do wonder about the stock vampire and wizard (and subsequent Spirit-Bound caster) given they are full casters as being too much, potentially; maybe those would be better as not full casters; but on the other hand, they're getting fairly sub-optimal choice of spells, which limits their abusability.




Also, did you remove the ability to summon 1d3//1d4+1 lower level monsters or was that a source removal? That's a big way summoners get flexibility, that a summon spell prepared at a higher level can be used to grab a couple useful monsters from the lower list without necessarily having to spend a slot on that particular SM spell.

It's "as Summon Monster," so yes, that aspect functions just like normal.