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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Cleric's Sacred Chimes (shield/holy symbol alternative)



Greywander
2020-05-24, 03:41 AM
I know clerics have been a long staple of D&D, but they feel too martial for a fantasy priest. So I wanted to homebrew up something that would allow you to get that white mage feel.

For armor, this is actually address (albeit briefly) in the DMG on page 287: if you want to play an armorless cleric, you could swap out all your armor proficiencies for something like the monk's Unarmored Defense, but presented as a divine blessing. What I want to focus on is getting rid of shields (which, technically, this does, as monk's can't use shields with Unarmored Defense).

So, sacred chimes. They're a new type of holy symbol that is typically held in the hand, or affixed to a staff, scepter, rod, or club. They don't have to be chimes, either; they could be a cross, crosier, censer, or khakkhara (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khakkhara) (one of the original inspirations for this idea, the other being Dark Souls 2). For simplicity, I'll use "sacred chimes" to refer to all possible variants of this concept, as they function the same mechanically.

Sacred chimes and their variants cost 15 gp and weigh 2 lbs. This is equivalent to the cost of a shield + holy symbol (emblem), and the weight of a shield minus the weight of a staff. You can affix the chimes to a suitable weapon as an action.

Any divine caster can use sacred chimes as a holy symbol to cast their spells. Some divine casters receive a special blessing of protection instead of learning how to use shields. By giving up your shield proficiency, you can use an action to utter a prayer for protection. Doing so grants you a magical +2 bonus to AC. You can't benefit from a shield at the same time as this prayer of protection. If you end your turn without the sacred chimes in your hand, the effect ends.

If you affix the chimes to a weapon, they make the weapon too unwieldy to be used as such. The weapon loses all of its weapon properties (but retains any other properties, such as magic item traits), becoming an improvised weapon. If the weapon is a magic weapon that grants a bonus to attack and damage rolls, affixing sacred chimes to it replaces that bonus with an equal bonus to spell attack rolls. If that weapon already gives a bonus to spell attack rolls, you may use either bonus, but not both.

So far, sacred chimes can more or less replace a shield with a holy emblem with very little mechanical difference. But once magical shields start becoming available, that AC bonus will start to look a little underwhelming. To counter this, we'll just add a new magic item for sacred chimes:


Bells of the Apostle
Sacred chimes, uncommon (+1), rare (+2), very rare (+3), (requires attunement by a cleric, paladin, or other divine spellcaster)

While holding these chimes, you gain a bonus to your spell save DC. The bonus is determined by the chimes' rarity.

In addition, when you utter the prayer for protection, you gain additional bonus AC. This bonus is determined by the chimes' rarity.

If you affix these chimes to a suitable weapon, and that weapon also requires attunement, you only need to use one attunement slot for both these chimes and that weapon.

To make things even more interesting, we can introduce a new feat as well:


Holy Crusader
Prerequisite: the ability to cast at least one spell

When you affix sacred chimes to a weapon, that weapon retains all of its weapon traits. In addition, if the weapon is a magic item that gives a bonus to attack and damage rolls, you gain that bonus to your spell attack rolls in addition to, rather than instead of, the bonus to your attack and damage rolls with that weapon.

You can also affix sacred chimes to any weapon, rather than just a staff or club.

Thoughts and concerns? I suppose I should point out that this is basically a Wand of the War Mage, Shield +X, and Rod of the Pact Keeper, all wrapped up into one attunement slot, although it requires two magic items and misses out on some of the benefits of those items. You can also replicate the Wand of the War Mage without using attunement by using a quarterstaff +X. Is this too much?

Icecaster
2020-05-24, 07:14 PM
Hello! I like the alternative option you've got here! I think it's an interesting and flavorful twist to the traditional martial feel of a cleric, and I like the aesthetic you've implemented with the use of chimes. It's a very in-depth take on a seemingly innocuous addition, which I really appreciate in a 'brew. I think that overall this is a very elegant way to reskin the mechanics of a shield. I have a few minor suggestions throughout, but I'll do my very best to keep the words kind, because this is a very strong homebrew. In the end, all my suggestions are just suggestions, and we all homebrew based on our subjective experiences as players and DM's, so you have no obligation to cater to my experiences of the game. And on that very serious note, I'll try and divide this up for a review as best I can!:smallsmile:

Flavor
I think that the flavor of the item is great, as I said above. It easily fits in with almost any D&D lore/setting, and saying "my character has a set of slender, silver chimes hung from the tip of his staff" adds a much more flavorful punch than "my character has an intricate silver shield." In my opinion, anyways. As far as fluff goes, I'd have absolutely no issue with a player using this at my table as a DM, and I wouldn't resent it if I was a player seeing another player use it either. It's a small but meaningful shift in the dynamic of a cleric that sets the tone for a character's personality. I know having a whole section for Flavor probably made you think I was gonna say there's a deep, deal-breaker flaw in the flavor, but there really isn't. Credit where credit's due, I never knew I wanted this until you showed me.

Mechanics
Ah, the mechanics. As far as general rules go, this looks fine. There aren't many moving parts, so there isn't much to actually critique. It's mostly just a shield. The action to utter a prayer of protection is great, no problems. Its fluff works well to effect the mechanics of a shield-a-little-to-the-left. HOWEVER, there are a few more moving parts than a shield. At face value, this makes it slightly more problematic on the sole basis that it's more complex, but assuming a player is willing to embrace that complexity, it's not bad. Turning a regular weapon into an "unwieldy" improvised weapon is a good way to justify the same effect of using a shield as an improvised weapon. This is, again, a way of turning the chimes into a Not Shield that adds the barest more complexity. I would say the moving parts come in with the chimes automatically transferring magic weapon bonuses to spells. Based on the fluff, it seems as though much of the ideology of the chimes comes simply from a greater focus on the cleric's prayers and the chimes themselves aren't magical. It seems like a set of actual magical chimes could do the same thing, or that could simply be left to an actual magic item while the chimes remain just as a shield replacement. It's not an outright buff over a shield since magic items are rewarded at the DM's discretion anyways, so they'll plan on you using a magic weapon as such. But it does feel like an addition that could be handed over entirely to a magic item. Of course, this is a pretty minor nit-picky thing that doesn't really detract from the chimes in any meaningful way, but that's my two cents on it. Feel free to disregard as you see fit, everything's just a suggestion after all! All in all, the base chimes do a nice, clever job of maintaining the mechanics of a shield while altering the entire fluff-scheme.

Bells of the Apostle
Yeah, the magic item looks good. I assume that part of your question at the end applies mostly to this item. The extension of the chimes' AC bonus to applying to spell save DC makes these a very appealing choice over magical shields - especially for clerics. I wouldn't say it's overpowered, but I would suggest bumping the rarities up from uncommon-very rare to rare-legendary, since the Bells of the Apostle do have a distinct numerical advantage over a +X shield which ranges from uncommon-very rare. The shared attunement slot seems like a strange addition. Most games don't fiddle with the attunement slot line too much, but it does seem like an unnecessary bonus. Since you could potentially use magical properties of the weapon that don't hinge on attacking, you would basically be able to have another magic item. I may be missing some part of the magic weapon bit, but it seems like there's not much justification in the fluff/mechanics for doing so when the comparison - +X shields - don't do this. Overall, the Bells of the Apostle are strictly better than the +X shields, which isn't game-breaking, but it feels like the Bells' functionality differs just enough from the shields that they're not on the same level anymore. I would suggest a rarity fix, or possibly a few tweaks.

Holy Crusader
While I like the idea of this feat, I think it gets hairy when it comes to numbers. Since the chimes maintain the same essential effects as a shield (plus a little extra), this would allow a character to use, say, a greatsword and still gain the effective benefits of a shield. I've always been wary of feats and effects that allow for two-handed weapons and shields. Especially for a class like paladin, this would essentially be a feat tax. The martial equipment comes down to whether you want sword-and-board for the extra AC or a two-handed/dual-wielding loadout for the extra damage (or in the case of some builds, the reach property). However, this feat kind of nullifies this system. Since you don't have to pick between extra AC and extra damage, every paladin would simply choose both, which, for obvious reasons, noodles with the balance paradigm presented in 5e. This is less of a problem for clerics since many divine domains don't get access to big martial weapons anyways, but any domain that does get martial proficiencies - like war clerics - would be faced with the same issue. While I think the fluff and intent behind the feat is very cool, from a DM's perspective, I don't think I would allow the feat at my table. As far as suggestions go, I suppose you could simply keep the staff/club restriction for the chimes, although I might just narrow the expansion on the weapons the feat allows, like being able to affix the chimes to any simple weapon. Aside from that, this is a difficult feat to balance since it inherently offers defense with no trade-off to offense, so an overhaul/rework may be necessary to keep the mechanics in line with the flavor-vision you have if you find that the other suggestions steer the mechanics too far away from coolness.

Overall
As I said at the beginning, this is a very interesting piece of homebrew! The only things with which I found myself even marginally dissatisfied were limited to little nit-picks, which is pretty darn good! The only real problem I had with anything was the balance implications of Holy Crusader, but that's not a huge deal as an optional side to the main course of the chimes. I'll definitely be bookmarking/transcribing this piece somewhere for my players to use if they choose to! This reminds me a lot of the Class Variants article that the Unearthed Arcana came out with, which is definitely a compliment. Congrats on a great homebrew!:smallbiggrin:

Sidenote: Dude, have some recognition for going out of your way to weave the chimes more readily into gameplay with a magic item and a feat. Brownie points and a virtual fist bump for you, that takes some real forethought.

Greywander
2020-05-25, 01:01 AM
Thanks for the detailed reply! Let me tweak it a bit and see if I can improve it. (Also, a more formal looking write up.)

Sacred Chimes
Sacred chimes are a holy symbol that can be used as a spellcasting focus. They are typically held in the hand or affixed to a staff, club, rod, scepter, or similar object. Some religious orders might use a cross, crosier, censer, khakkhara, or other holy symbol or object, instead of chimes. Sacred chimes have a value of 15 gp and weigh 2 lbs. They can be affixed to or removed from a suitable object as an action.

If you affix the chimes to a weapon, such as a quarterstaff, that weapon becomes too unwieldy to use as a weapon. The weapon loses all of its weapon properties and becomes an improvised weapon. It retains any other properties, such as magic item traits.

Some divine spellcasters forgo training with shields, instead receiving a divine blessing from their deity that protects them. As a cleric, paladin, or other divine spellcaster, you may choose to give up the shield proficiency you would normally gain from that class to instead receive this divine blessing. You can invoke this blessing as an action, uttering a prayer, ringing the chimes, or performing some other ritual that calls upon your deity's protection. When you invoke the blessing of protection, you gain a magical +2 bonus to your AC. This bonus lasts until it is dispelled or you end your turn without the chimes in your hand. This bonus can't be used with a shield; you must choose which of the two AC bonuses to use.

If the chimes are affixed to a magic weapon that grants a bonus to attack and damage rolls with that weapon, the weapon loses that property as it can no longer be used effectively as a weapon. Instead, this bonus is replaced by an equal bonus to your AC when you invoke the blessing of protection.

The following magic item may be used as a sacred chime.


Bells of the Apostle
Sacred chimes, uncommon (+1), rare (+2), very rare (+3), (requires attunement by a cleric, paladin, or other divine spellcaster)

While holding these chimes, you gain a bonus to your spell save DC. The bonus is determined by the chimes' rarity.

In addition, you may cast the bless spell once without using a spell slot or concentration. The number of creatures you can bless this way is determined by the chimes' rarity (1 for uncommon, 2 for rare, 3 for very rare). You can't use this property again until you finish a long rest.

If you affix these chimes to a suitable item, and that item also requires attunement, both the chimes and the item count as a single magic item with regard to the number of magic items you can attune to. If that item also provides a bonus to your spell save DC, you may use either bonus, but not both.

The following feat also becomes available.


Battle Priest
Prerequisite: the ability to cast at least one spell

When you affix sacred chimes to a weapon, that weapon retains all of its weapon traits. In addition, if the weapon is a magic item that gives a bonus to attack and damage rolls, you gain that bonus to your AC in addition to, rather than instead of, the bonus to your attack and damage rolls with that weapon.

In addition, when you use your action to cast a spell using your sacred chimes, you may make one weapon attack as a bonus action.

Hopefully, this should fix several of the issues you pointed out.

On the subject of the bells having shared attunement, I know that's something that prosthetic limbs in Eberron: Rising from the Last War does; all prosthetics count as a single magic item, no matter how many of them you have. I'm almost thinking there was another example of this as well, and I think it was something to do with attaching one magic item to another, but I can't quite remember. In any case, there is precedent. Something to keep in mind is that there isn't much overlap between staves that can be equipped by clerics and paladins, staves that give a bonus to attack and damage rolls, and staves that give you other benefits such as extra spells. A lot of the magical staves are missing one of those three traits, and in any case you still have to acquire both the staff and the bells.

The feat was a last minute addition, which is why it wasn't as well thought out. Hopefully this one should be a bit better.

Looking forward to your feedback!

Icecaster
2020-05-25, 12:59 PM
Off the bat, I'll say that this looks really good! I'm a fan of the tweaks you made, beyond just the ones I talked about. There's a lot of attention to detail here.

Sacred Chimes
The wording is all very orderly and neat, which is great. I think the attack/damage roll bonus being transferred to AC feels appropriate for the prayer, and that entirely solves the issue of basic +X shield scaling. This section is very clean, and it feels like a finished product!

Bells of the Apostle
I like how you changed the structure from being an AC bonus to just a spell save DC bonus, and how you capitalized on the spells with the minor casting of blessing. I think this is a clever way to reward the non-martial, priesty playstyle you were talking about with a magic item. I think it'd also be interesting to see a paladin getting an item like this as they get further into spellcasting. It has a unique function, it fills a specific niche, and it feels well-balanced, so I think it's great!

Battle Priest
I like the little rework you did here. The weapon benefit feels useful, and I think that the bonus action attack is a great addition to the feat. The weapon restriction, I think, adds a little more complexity to a class like paladin. In a way, it actually opens the way for a more spellcasting-focused paladin which sacrifices damage for better flexibility in their spells. I actually really like this feat: I would definitely allow this in conjunction with the chimes.

Attunement Slots
That makes sense. When I first read it, it seemed like a strange albeit minor thing to add, but as long as there's precedent then I can get behind that.

I don't think I have anymore feedback for you! This was a pleasure to read and discuss. Cheers!