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View Full Version : [Exalted 2E] Extinction of Desire - how does one use this Charm?



Segev
2020-05-24, 11:53 AM
This Charm has bugged me for years, and has come up again in my poking around the system to see what I can build.

The effect is that the raksha’s Heart and Ring Graces shatter, but it doesn’t cease to exist (despite no Heart) nor suffer the Bedlam Curse of Namelessness (which would be the normal consequence of losing the Ring Grace).

It also loses all sense of self and volition and Becomes a nigh-indestructible sentient Wyld artifact that any other Raksha can attune for 1m.

Does it still look like a “normal” Raksha to outside observers? Is it still vulnerable to Stasis and Calcification? Is it now an item rather than appearing as a living thing, or is it hard to tell from simple observation that it’s not what it was before?

How well does its sentience simulate personality with no sense of self/volition?

Is there any way that any of you can think of that a non-Raksha could attune it?

The best use I can think of is to give your Heroic Commoner in your retinue this Charm, or the Raksha you make worth birthing Charms, and wield it as a bonus more pool to control additional Charms. Maybe even as custom Lorekeepers and Handlers and whatever those who attune Chancels are called.

If non-Raksha can attune them, it’s maybe a way to access Raksha charms.

It’s especially weird to consider backgrounds on a Raksha that is used this.

Maybe it’s a way to play a commoner with Noble powers, as his master learns this Charm to have his favorite Commoner wield him as a weapon?

Lord Raziere
2020-05-24, 01:01 PM
seeking sense from the Wyld are we? the place of.....no sense at all? bold endeavor.

I've seen meschlum- y'know the one exalted player in the world who mastered 2e fair folk stuff to the point where he can make anything he wants out of it- and apparently it can be apart of some broken combo that I don't remember the specifics of where you somehow become Luna? lemme look this up....


Extinction of Desire turns anything that uses it into a 3-dot Wyld treasure (artifact).

Luna can use all Raksha charms, and thus can use Extinction of Desire and become a 3-dot Wyld treasure.

Unshaped Ring Transformation is a Staff charm, and a prerequisite for Extinction of Desire. So it can be used by your artifact self (once your owner commands you to).

Unshaped Ring Transformation can transform any Wyld treasure into any other, so long as the level of the artifact does not change.

You are an artifact-3. A hypothetical self mind-wiped Luna using Extinction of Desire is also an artifact-3.

Therefore, you are now Luna (in artifact form).

Luna can dismiss Raksha Charm effects on Herself, so she can drop Extinction of Desire.

You are no longer an artifact, having become a version of Luna instead.

You are no longer an Exalt. Mission accomplished!


its basically this weird bunch of semantics where Luna equals 3 dot Wyld artifact equals raksha and thus anyone who does that can somehow become a Luna. here is the link to that long ago exalted thread where he originally explained it (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?223918-General-Exalted-Discussion-Thread-VIII-Ten-Thousand-Playgrounders-Post-As-One!/page44&p=12665118#post12665118)

Tanarii
2020-05-24, 01:17 PM
its basically this weird bunch of semantics where Luna equals 3 dot Wyld artifact equals raksha and thus anyone who does that can somehow become a Luna. here is the link to that long ago exalted thread where he originally explained it (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?223918-General-Exalted-Discussion-Thread-VIII-Ten-Thousand-Playgrounders-Post-As-One!/page44&p=12665118#post12665118)
"You are an artifact-3. A hypothetical self mind-wiped Luna using Extinction of Desire is also an artifact-3.

Therefore, you are now Luna (in artifact form)."

Isn't that a logical fallacy?
B ⊃ A
C ⊃ A
therefore B = C

Lord Raziere
2020-05-24, 01:26 PM
"You are an artifact-3. A hypothetical self mind-wiped Luna using Extinction of Desire is also an artifact-3.

Therefore, you are now Luna (in artifact form)."

Isn't that a logical fallacy?
B ⊃ A
C ⊃ A
therefore B = C

I mean he does say:

Unshaped Ring Transformation can transform any Wyld treasure into any other, so long as the level of the artifact does not change.

as in, both you and Luna would count as treasure at that point? its stupid cheesey shenanigans.

but hey its not my reasoning, I'm not defending it, only explaining it. I'm just quoting the guy who cared enough to try and find a use for it when everyone else didn't care about fair folk. OP wanted a use for it, there you go, is it a viable use? probably not. is it white room theoretical optimization for 2e Exalted? YES. but its probably the closest your going to get.

Segev
2020-05-25, 10:44 AM
I was more thinking in terms of practical optimization, as tricky as that can be with Exalted.

Is there much benefit to the Raksha who attuned the Wyld artifact over the situation of the Wyld artifact instead was still a “normal” Raksha whose Heart grace the master-Raksha owns?

GrayDeath
2020-05-25, 12:55 PM
In short: Unless all your players are fully "into" it and are playing Raksha and you spend a LOAD of time understanding it, "practical Optimization" and Graceful Wicked Masques are rather tangential to each other.


The intent of the Charm is, as far as we understood it, more or less to offer a way to make Raksha "spend time as an Item in Mortal Hands" or to fully and storyendingly defeat other Nobles.

No other Use both makes sense, works mechanically, and does not erode your sanity into believing you could be Luna and have forgotten it. ^^

As for specific QUestions: Yes, other Exalted that can use Raksha Charms (Ergo Eclipse and their mirrored/Verdigrised versions) can.

Theoretically, depending on other Raksha using certain charms on them other Exalted could do that as well. Even for mortals with awakened essence it is, with work, possible ....

But again, trust me, unless you want to spend a LOT of time with GWM, dont bother trying to find sense" or "otimiztion in it. :)

Segev
2020-05-26, 12:36 AM
Oh, I have spent a lot of time with GWM and the errata. This Charm just remains mysterious to me.