Must have spells

[Yogibear41]

What spells does the game more or less require you to be able to cast as you move up in level?

Assuming standard powered enemies (no super optimization) VS. a highly optimized party with very limited spellcasting (say paladin/ranger types at best) where would you hit a brick wall because of lack of ability to cast spell X?

I've seen lots of monsters with abilities that can only be removed with heal or some other niche healing spell, and there are many high level threats with at will teleportation.

I assume a paladin's resurgence spell given enough castings can get around alot of those I failed my save and something terrible happened scenarios that a heal spell would other wise fix, but other than a Dimensional anchor or other similar spells combating at will teleportation (without doing enough damage to just 1 shot the monster) seems problematic.

So more or less what spells do you have to have to play at high levels, and which of them could you get away with using items to replicate instead?
For example I would say a wand or scroll of Dimensional anchor would probably not work very well due to a minimal caster level vs most outsiders with at will teleportation having Spell resistance for example.

[NotASpiderSwarm]

FLY. An archer or a blaster caster can compensate for a while, but at some point it becomes obvious that you need the ability to engage enemies in the air, avoid obstacles, etc.

Dispel Magic. Solves so many problems that there's really no other solution for.

Heal/Stone to Flesh/Cure Disease/etc. The 1-day-later Cleric spells. You can replicate these through scrolls, potions, etc, but you'll burn all your WBL doing that and still end up missing some random effect that a Cleric could handle easily with 12 hours warning.

[magicalmagicman]

Dimensional Anchor because of at-will greater teleport enemies.

And that's it.

BFC spells are not mandatory because you can just go all out damage, tankiness, etc.
Minionmancy spells like Planar Binding are not mandatory because you can just go BFC
Blasting spells are not mandatory because your fighter + bfc, or minionmancy will do a much better job.
Teleport is not mandatory because I have never seen a campaign that requires you to teleport. A macguffin npc will offer it for you if it is absolutely necessary.
Divination is not mandatory because the DM will hate it and make it useless, all puzzles are solvable without it, you can just break down dungeon walls, and for puzzles requiring NPCs, there are plenty of ways to make them all talk.
Flying is not mandatory because blasting and minionmancy can also take out flying enemies.
Align weapon is not mandatory because blasting and minionmancy can overcome resistance/dr with sheer power.

So really, Dimensional Anchor is the only mandatory spell you need to cast because one shotting fiends is arguably super optimization territory.

[the_tick_rules]

freedom of movement, mind blank, true sight, and death ward.

[Afghanistan]

freedom of movement, mind blank, true sight, and death ward.

The bolded spells specifically because they shut down so many things that will straight up just kill you at best, and make you into a liability for your group if they go through at worst. Regardless, most of the must have spells are mostly just must have options, that is to say, situations and things you NEED to have an out for, otherwise, it can (and usually will) lead to a TPK.

[NotASpiderSwarm]

Flying is not mandatory because blasting and minionmancy can also take out flying enemies.
Correction, Blasting, Minionmancy, AND Teleportation are needed. You need spells to handle a dragon repeatedly strafing you with his breath weapon(blasting/BFC), spells to handle various large-scale environmental hazards(Teleportation), spells to handle emplaced enemies with cover from attacks from the ground(Minionmancy), etc.

Flight solves so many problems, I don't see a way to be successful against ECL 10+ encounters without it unless I burn way too many resources compensating.

Notably, I really agree with Afghanistan, the key is that you have to have an answer for various problems. Some spells solve a lot of problems*. Some spells make solving large numbers of problems easier**. And some spells solve basically one problem, but they're the only spell that solves that problem***. The key when building for mid or high levels is to have an answer for every problem in your group. As a caster, that usually means you need spells that solve specific problems when they're the only option, but also need broad spells to solve all the other problems. The exact combo depends on you and your group, and overgenerality is just as risky as being too specific.

*Summon Monster X, Polymorph, Dispel Magic, etc
**Solid Fog, Glitterdust, etc
***Protection from X, Death Ward, Stone to Flesh, etc

[ericgrau]

Not sure, but at will teleportation doesn't require dimensional anchor or any specific spell to deal with. Either you attack and take at least one round of counter attacks, or you leave immediately and have no effect. Even direct damage takes 2-3 rounds to drop a foe, and if it's not a lone LBEG focus fire usually does it within 1 round. At best the LBEG is only half effective from reserving a round to run before it's too late, and then he's not much of a threat. More like a repeated impotent annoyance. Maybe if the party doesn't have a single caster and he's dropping a SoD on the party for only 1 round before popping out that could be somewhat effective. But even then there are magic items and special abilities. Heck even a lucky mundane stun and it's over.

[Miss Disaster]

Investiture of the Orthon is a niche-use alternative to Dimensional Anchor.

It's from Fiendish Codex II.

[DrMartin]

Campaign dependent of course, but:
Necessary:
Detect Magic

Require reworking of a lot of classic opponents/challenges if not available:
Daylight
See Invisibility
Fly
Remove Fear
Dispel Magic / Break Enchantment
Protection from xx
Death Ward

[magicalmagicman]

freedom of movement, mind blank, true sight, and death ward.

Forgot about SoD immunities. You are correct they are mandatory. True sight isn't mandatory. Even Astral Constructs have blindsight.


Correction, Blasting, Minionmancy, AND Teleportation are needed. You need spells to handle a dragon repeatedly strafing you with his breath weapon(blasting/BFC), spells to handle various large-scale environmental hazards(Teleportation), spells to handle emplaced enemies with cover from attacks from the ground(Minionmancy), etc.

Flight solves so many problems, I don't see a way to be successful against ECL 10+ encounters without it unless I burn way too many resources compensating.

Notably, I really agree with Afghanistan, the key is that you have to have an answer for various problems. Some spells solve a lot of problems*. Some spells make solving large numbers of problems easier**. And some spells solve basically one problem, but they're the only spell that solves that problem***. The key when building for mid or high levels is to have an answer for every problem in your group. As a caster, that usually means you need spells that solve specific problems when they're the only option, but also need broad spells to solve all the other problems. The exact combo depends on you and your group, and overgenerality is just as risky as being too specific.

*Summon Monster X, Polymorph, Dispel Magic, etc
**Solid Fog, Glitterdust, etc
***Protection from X, Death Ward, Stone to Flesh, etc

A Balor can take a dragon. So you only need minionmancy. He can take everything a dragon can dish out until his vorpal sword behead the dragon. Or sooner depending on the dragon.
A Paeliryon can take a dragon that's not immune to fire by blasting it to death with its at-will meteor swarm.

If you're talking lower level, Astral Constructs have pounce + flight.
Zombies can fly. Zombie Griffons are stupidly easy to obtain thanks to Lesser Planar Exchange.
Bone devils have at-will fly.

A proper mailman will one shot the dragon as he swoops in with a readied action. A normal blaster can similarly just ready blast spells to strike as he swoops in.

So no, you are incorrect. You only need minionmancy or blasting to take out flying creatures without using the spell fly. And since there are multiple alternative solutions to using fly it is not mandatory, unlike Mind Blank, Deathward, and Dimensional Anchor.


Not sure, but at will teleportation doesn't require dimensional anchor or any specific spell to deal with. Either you attack and take at least one round of counter attacks, or you leave immediately and have no effect. Even direct damage takes 2-3 rounds to drop a foe, and if it's not a lone LBEG focus fire usually does it within 1 round. At best the LBEG is only half effective from reserving a round to run before it's too late, and then he's not much of a threat. More like a repeated impotent annoyance. Maybe if the party doesn't have a single caster and he's dropping a SoD on the party for only 1 round before popping out that could be somewhat effective. But even then there are magic items and special abilities. Heck even a lucky mundane stun and it's over.

Depends on the DM. If you fail to kill too many at-will teleport monsters then a reasonable DM should have these creatures teleport in and out endlessly while you try to rest, or ambush you when you are retreating from a fight with all your resources depleted, etc. etc.


Investiture of the Orthon is a niche-use alternative to Dimensional Anchor.

It's from Fiendish Codex II.

Tried it. It failed because the creature can just walk out of the AoE and teleport. You need to grapple the creature in addition to casting investiture of the orthon.

[Doctor Despair]

Depends on the DM. If you fail to kill too many at-will teleport monsters then a reasonable DM should have these creatures teleport in and out endlessly while you try to rest, or ambush you when you are retreating from a fight with all your resources depleted, etc. etc.


Assuming you didn't kill it in one or two hits or hit it with an SoD, I guess. It uses a standard in a surprise round to teleport in, then gets a move/immediate, and then it's initiative, right? Even if you are very generous and say that it teleports in, then takes a surprise round, unless it has some sort of spellcasting as a swift action, it will need to beat someone in initiative if it's going to cast an offensive spell before teleporting away, right?

[magicalmagicman]

Assuming you didn't kill it in one or two hits or hit it with an SoD, I guess. It uses a standard in a surprise round to teleport in, then gets a move/immediate, and then it's initiative, right? Even if you are very generous and say that it teleports in, then takes a surprise round, unless it has some sort of spellcasting as a swift action, it will need to beat someone in initiative if it's going to cast an offensive spell before teleporting away, right?

It won't teleport right in front of the PCs. It would most likely teleport in an area around the PCs and setup an ambush. Or slowly stalk them, waiting to strike when the PCs are at their weakest, or something like that.

It lost to the PCs in straight up combat. Makes little sense to take that approach again.

[Kelb_Panthera]

There are no must-have spells, period. There are must have effects and spells are one way to garner them.

If we assume that the goal is to be able to overcome any of the foes or obstacles that may be presented then those effects are:

the ability to reverse energy drain and ability drain
the ability to attack flying or incorporeal creatures
the ability to navigate inherently hostile environments e.g. deep water, extreme heat, vaccum, etc
the ability to heal vile damage
the ability to restore lost limbs and senses
the ability to detect traps



And that's about it. Literally everything else can be dealt with by the natural abilities inherent in any character. HP and ability damage heal over time, save-or-die effects are resisted by saving throws, natural portals and rifts allow planar travel, teleporting foes have to get close enough to attack in order to attack the party, and most everything else is a convenience rather than a necessity.

You might very much -like- to have a whole host of other effects and abilities, whether you can get them via spell or otherwise, but you don't -need- them to overcome. They merely improve your odds or allow you to overcome faster.

All of those are accessible to one degree or other by either magic items or classes with little to no spellcasting.

[Railak]

Fireball, always fireball

JK, thought I'd throw out a joke there, but really the "required" spells vary by class, character, and campaign. While I'll say teleport and the like are useful, they are in no way actually required. I've seen a person who took NOTHING but fire spells and he never had a single problem. Didn't use flight, didn't have any form of teleport, hell didn't even use mage armor.