3.5 Dark Sun HalfGiant question

[Nall21cp]

Ok first time DM'ing and two players are new and two are advanced. One advanced player is intentionally playing a non-optimized thri-kreen so the new players can stand out and to challenge himself at roleplaying.

The other has taken a common 3.5 min-max build and sent it through the stratosphere with Dark Sun Half Giant stats:

In 3.5 DS, Half Giants get massive strength, large size and 10' reach and 40' speed. So the character is using the spiked chain-trip build to new levels of cheese:

He stays large so that neutralizes the "resources spent being large" limiter. He now has 15' reach and can use a Medium spike chain in one hand. So he gets to use the spike chain combos with an attack penalty that doesnt matter (bc they are touch attacks), and because of this strategy he also gets full plate and tower shield for a character that can at level 5:
25 ac
48hp
15' reach
+14 to opposed strength checks and 2d4+6 dmg per "free attack on trip" and AoO on rise from prone.

I dont know how to deal with this without designing the entire world around him.

He is singlehandedly taking down ECL 9 encounters without getting hit, and oftentimes with most of the humanoid enemies never even getting to attack. We just finished a match where he killed a level 4 fighter, level 5 cleric, level 2 wizard, 3 generic monster manual Half Giants at the same time, and a Silt Elemental without ever getting hit or them ever getting to attack. And if they run he can catch them.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

First of all, reach weapons double your natural reach, so he would have a 20 ft. reach with a spiked chain (that's sized appropriately for him).

Second, per the Rules Compendium page 151 under Inappropriately Sized Weapons:

A wielder gains no reach from a reach weapon that is too
small. No additional reach is granted by a reach weapon that
is too big.

Thus a medium creature's Spiked Chain in the hands of a large size creature is not a reach weapon for him.

He could trade the Spiked Chain for a Kusari-Gama (DMG p144-145), if you're allowing Asian weapons.

Third, Darksun has a lot of psionics. A single Energy Missile (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyMissile.htm) at the start of combat can destroy his weapon, his shield, his armor, his person, and his belt buckle so his pants fall down around his ankles and trip him up.

Fourth, there are creatures that can't be tripped such as snakes, oozes, and things with similar anatomy. You can also use opponents that have reach, or opponents that use ranged weapons and are hard to reach (such as on a balcony). You can also use dungeons with narrow halls and low ceilings, so he's squeezing (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#terrainandObstacle s) the entire time, to the tune of -4 AC and -4 to attack rolls and effectively a 20 ft. speed since every square counts as two. Furthermore, when squeezing you could also rule that the spiked chain is unusable, since he needs space to make sweeping attacks with it, or just say it can't be used to trip under those circumstances for the same reason. Edit: Also, you can say his large size tower shield just won't fit into the dungeon or won't be usable due to ceiling height, so he'll be without his shield the entire time as well.

[Nall21cp]

Thank you! Ive made ample use of non trippable monsters but it can grow stale. I was completely unaware of the undersized reach rule. That solves the largest frustration: him being able to deal so much control and dmg while also being impregnable. Its a standard choice in D&D to select dmg output or defense--its been an issue dealing with high amounts of both. Its one thing for him to humiliate an attacker. Its another thing entirely if when surrounded he cant get hit, allowing him to humiliate the whole gang one at a time, taking his time. It seemed weird he could tower shield while doing all this and this insight solves the puzzle. I want him to stand out when tripping. Its awesome for him. But he also shouldnt be impossible to hit with massive AC simultaneously

[Maat Mons]

Per the Rules Compendium (page 151), an undersized reach weapon doesn't give reach. I swear I remember that rule being somewhere else too, but I'm only managing to track it down in the Rules Compendium.

Anyway, he shouldn't have that shield and the AC bonus it provides.

In 5-foot-wide hallways, he has to use squeezing rules. That's -4 to attack rolls and AC, and his movement costs double.

Enemies that fly without using wings can't be tripped.

If he doesn't have the Mage Slayer feat, enemy casters can just stay prone and cast defensively, denying him attacks of opportunity.

Edit: Took too long writing post. Got ninja-ed. And I still couldn't find where that rule was written before Rules Compendium. I know it was somewhere.

[Nall21cp]

I was actually trying to melt his weapon or armor with the silt elemental acid attack but it couldnt hit him lol

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

And I still couldn't find where that rule was written before Rules Compendium. I know it was somewhere.

It was originally in the FAQ, and it was also RAW in the literature for the 3.5 version of Adventurers League, because a small longspear and a shield at low levels became popular for those events.

[Nall21cp]

Maat, thank you for taking the time to respond. I don't care that you got ninja'd. I appreciate the assistance

[Rebel7284]

Where exactly are those half giant stats that you're referring to? A quick google search show me http://thedarksun.wikidot.com/half-giant
Which is very similar to the basic 3.5 Half Giant (Powerful Built is nice, but no reach (and no Level adjustment??)) .

Regardless, tripping is one of the things that low-level fighters can do reasonably well and it quickly becomes less useful as the game goes on as creatures get larger and often have 4 legs.

As mentioned before, there are one handed versions of Spiked Chain out there without having to use inappropriately sized weapons. Kusari-Gama has been mentioned but there is also Spinning Sword in Secrets of Sarlona. With that said, often it's better to give up a shield or use an animated shield and just used a two handed weapon. After all, with improved trip, you get a free attack when you successfully trip something, and you want that attack to land and do damage.

Can you give more information about what the other players are playing? You mentioned thri-kreen, but that's a race, not a build. If it's casters, the power imbalance will fix itself in a few levels as the casters get way more powerful spells while monsters get bigger.

[Nall21cp]

The material i'm using is the "fanmade but creator reviewed" sourcebooks compiled on Athas.org. Im using those because while not official, they do have an entire monster manual that converts every monster from every 2ndEd Dark Sun sourcebook into 3.5 so its a wonderful toolset for someone wanting to run a fully DS setting in 3.5. There are however some "issues" of balance in it but we're skilled enough to know dumb when we see it and immediately adjust it. The exception may be their use of HG as large, which is unusual but i decided to let it go as written "unless something happens that is obviously broken".

Rest of party:
Aarokocra Air Cleric
Thrikreen Water Cleric
HalfElf Druid
Human Merchant
Pterran Telepath

So basically theyre mostly squishy except the kreen, who will stand out once his character levels catch up (kreen get a +2 ECL in this material...while the HG only gets +1....)

[Nall21cp]

Its not letting me post the sourcelinks because i dont have enough posts yet but the books are Terrors of Athas and Dark Sun 3. The handbook HG entry doesnt even match the Monster Manual though so i ruled that Monster Manual takes precedence

[ShurikVch]

Its another thing entirely if when surrounded he cant get hit, allowing him to humiliate the whole gang one at a time, taking his time. It seemed weird he could tower shield while doing all this and this insight solves the puzzle. I want him to stand out when tripping. Its awesome for him. But he also shouldnt be impossible to hit with massive AC simultaneously
Please, tell me:
Did you deducted 1 from the Half-Giant's attack and AC (because of Large size), and -1 more to AC (because of Dex penalty)?
Did you gave to the gangers +2 for Flanking (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#flanking)?
Did gangers attempted to Aid Another (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#aidAnother) for overcoming the Half-Giant's AC?
Dit they tried to grapple the Half-Giant?
Did they threw sand in the Half-Giant's eyes?

[Nall21cp]

Please, tell me:
Did you deducted 1 from the Half-Giant's attack and AC (because of Large size), and -1 more to AC (because of Dex penalty)?
Did you gave to the gangers +2 for Flanking (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#flanking)?
Did gangers attempted to Aid Another (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#aidAnother) for overcoming the Half-Giant's AC?
Dit they tried to grapple the Half-Giant?
Did they threw sand in the Half-Giant's eyes?

1. Yes on size penalties. HG's also have nat armor and this one has an RoP +1 too.

2. Unfortunately they didnt get the flanking bonuses because they were not "directly opposite him". They were all attacking from a specific direction and they also had very low intelligence. I try to intentionally avoid strategic tactics sometimes if doing so makes the enemies come across as panicked when surprised, or if they have low int.

3. Did not think to avail myself of aid other. Thank you for the suggestion for future encounters!

4. Not really sure how to adjusicate sand in face. But no, they did not.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Use magical darkness or fog effects or cover to prevent him from getting AoOs. Creatures with total concealment or cover don't provoke attacks of opportunity. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041102a)

For throwing sand in his face, you would just ad-hoc rule it on the spot. Opponent is prone and he's expecting to AoO them when they stand up. That opponent takes a standard action to throw sand up in his face, he can choose to look away/close his eyes giving that opponent total concealment until the end of its turn, or he can not do that and the opponent makes a touch attack against him which if successful blinds him for something like 1d4+1 rounds. In either case he can't see the opponent while they stand up and doesn't get to AoO them.

A bunch of Earth Dwarf (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfEarth) Fighter 1's with tower shields and Titan Fighting would get the +4 dodge bonus against him from their race since he's a giant, and another +4 dodge bonus to AC from him from the dodge feat (all dodge bonuses stack with all other dodge bonuses). They can use the tower shields to grant cover when needed for blocking AoOs, and they get a +8 stability bonus to resist being tripped. Put a bunch of glaivelocks behind them, who can reach past them and make attacks against the giant's likely pitiful touch AC. They don't even need to approach him, just have the warlocks shoot at him with touch attacks and he'll need to approach their wall of giant-hating dwarves.

[ShurikVch]

4. Not really sure how to adjusicate sand in face.
Improvised thrown weapon; touch attack; Fortitude save or blinded for 1 round

[Nall21cp]

Use magical darkness or fog effects or cover to prevent him from getting AoOs. Creatures with total concealment or cover don't provoke attacks of opportunity. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041102a)

For throwing sand in his face, you would just ad-hoc rule it on the spot. Opponent is prone and he's expecting to AoO them when they stand up. That opponent takes a standard action to throw sand up in his face, he can choose to look away/close his eyes giving that opponent total concealment until the end of its turn, or he can not do that and the opponent makes a touch attack against him which if successful blinds him for something like 1d4+1 rounds. In either case he can't see the opponent while they stand up and doesn't get to AoO them.

A bunch of Earth Dwarf (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfEarth) Fighter 1's with tower shields and Titan Fighting would get the +4 dodge bonus against him from their race since he's a giant, and another +4 dodge bonus to AC from him from the dodge feat (all dodge bonuses stack with all other dodge bonuses). They can use the tower shields to grant cover when needed for blocking AoOs, and they get a +8 stability bonus to resist being tripped. Put a bunch of glaivelocks behind them, who can reach past them and make attacks against the giant's likely pitiful touch AC. They don't even need to approach him, just have the warlocks shoot at him with touch attacks and he'll need to approach their wall of giant-hating dwarves.

Love the ideas. Thank you! Your idea does make sense about the action and then standing up. Particularly because they themselves did something similar: the opened the battle by having the aarokocra use hover to blow silt around to blind the main posse for a round so the party could start dividing and conquering. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

[Nall21cp]

Improvised thrown weapon; touch attack; Fortitude save or blinded for 1 round

That would work: his touch AC is awful. Thanks!

[Doctor Despair]

That would work: his touch AC is awful. Thanks!

Prepare for complaints if every enemy throws sand in his eyes repeatedly every fight though.

When did this campaign become a beach adventure?!

Adjusting tactics can help manage him for now, but ultimately a conversation should happen about how he's optimizing way more than everyone else. Maybe help temper his plans for his build to generalize a little more than he's doing now; discuss how maybe next campaign he could play something more optimized, once the other two players have more system mastery to keep up. If he won't, then these tactics will help combat balance, sure, but be prepared for sour feelings when the thing he specialized in doing suddenly works way less, and he's ill-equipped to do other things because he super-specialized.