OOTS #1203 - The Discussion Thread

[littlebum2002]

I actually don't think there are that many magical or supernatural poisons. And even ignoring the possibility of O'Chul simply rolling horribly, there are plenty of high-DC, extraordinary(to my knowledge) poisons. While I doubt the Giant is actually using one of these, since he barely even looks at the rulebooks these days, there's still enough to prove a point:


Megapede Venom: DC 44
Svakalor Venom, Greater: DC 34
Colossal Scorpion Venom: DC 33
Greensickness: DC 33
Colossal Spider Venom: DC 28


And so on. Interestingly, among the five un-errata'd highest DC poisons, three are from Dungeonscape - you know, the book the Giant helped write? And considering the existence of abilities that can increase the DC further, such as the Poison Expert (Complete Scoundrel) or Venomous Strike (Drow of the Underdark) feats... Yeah, it's not that unlikely at the level they are.

None of the Dungeonscape poisons cause unconsciousness, though.

EDIT: Nor do they cause INT, CHA or WIS damage which would also cause unconsciousness.

[factotum]

None of the Dungeonscape poisons cause unconsciousness, though.

EDIT: Nor do they cause INT, CHA or WIS damage which would also cause unconsciousness.

I think the point being made was that non-supernatural poisons with high save DC exist, not what the actual effect of any of the listed brews was.

[danielxcutter]

I think the point being made was that non-supernatural poisons with high save DC exist, not what the actual effect of any of the listed brews was.

Yup. Hell, even a poison only in the high 20s would still have a fair chance of the save failing.

[ebarde]

The poison seems like another thing that doesn't really have an exact in-game representation, but since a lot of different stuff could fit the bill it doesn't really need one. So I think it's just a non-specific strong poison. Although I feel that this kind of tactic sorta hints a bit about the nature of the attackers. It seems pretty underhanded, and I think that if this was some ancient and powerful magical creature they wouldn't have to rely on such a tactic, which kinda makes me think they're more mundane in nature idk.

[Emanick]

The poison seems like another thing that doesn't really have an exact in-game representation, but since a lot of different stuff could fit the bill it doesn't really need one. So I think it's just a non-specific strong poison. Although I feel that this kind of tactic sorta hints a bit about the nature of the attackers. It seems pretty underhanded, and I think that if this was some ancient and powerful magical creature they wouldn't have to rely on such a tactic, which kinda makes me think they're more mundane in nature idk.

It's a very rogueish thing to do, which is one of the reasons why some people (including me) think the invisible creatures are part of Serini's inner or outer circle.

[ebarde]

I remember somewhat that the dwarves that built the dungeon also called her boss, which I'm sure doesn't mean anything but I'm gonna throw it out there just so if that's the case I can pretend I wasn't just making wild guesses

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I remember somewhat that the dwarves that built the dungeon also called her boss, which I'm sure doesn't mean anything but I'm gonna throw it out there just so if that's the case I can pretend I wasn't just making wild guesses

As far as I can remember, the dwarven contractors that built Dorukan's dungeon (and cheated him in both materials and effort) didn't consider her the boss. By that point, the team had gone their separate ways, so I'd guess Serini was nowhere close to those dwarves.

The one panel (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) we see of her building her dungeon is of her shouting orders at others, but we don't see who those others are. It might have been fellow halflings, it might have been dwarves, it might even have been the ancestors of the local bugbear tribe, who then decided to set up a home close by. We just don't know.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

By that point, the team had gone their separate ways, so I'd guess Serini was nowhere close to those dwarves.

While I agree with the point you make, I feel the need to point out that Soon was (ironically enough considering Girard's idea of him) the only one who actually sticked to the Oath (Dorukan & Lirian kept their relationship going and Girard remained in contact enough with Serini to have prepared a gloat for when Soon breaks the oath). Add to that that Serini was the only member to be in good relations with everyone, she may have hired some of the dwarves too.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

While I agree with the point you make, I feel the need to point out that Soon was (ironically enough considering Girard's idea of him) the only one who actually sticked to the Oath (Dorukan & Lirian kept their relationship going and Girard remained in contact enough with Serini to have prepared a gloat for when Soon breaks the oath). Add to that that Serini was the only member to be in good relations with everyone, she may have hired some of the dwarves too.

Sure, but I meant "separate ways" both figuratively and literally. They were building their respective dungeons in parallel, it feels like, and the dwarves at Dorukan's mountain-soon-to-be-castle can't also have been in the North Pole turning a few hills into a massive magic stone Petra-like canyon-with-a-thousand-caves.

Grey Wolf

[Quebbster]

We know Serini kept adventuring after the Scribblers broke up. Could she have expanded the Tomb with later earnings from her adventuring?

[bunsen_h]

It's a very rogueish thing to do, which is one of the reasons why some people (including me) think the invisible creatures are part of Serini's inner or outer circle.

It's also a way to take down two high-level paladins with minimal risk of long-term harm, resource depletion, etc. on either side. And without getting the attention of Team Evil or the bugbears.

[Rogar Demonblud]

We know Serini kept adventuring after the Scribblers broke up. Could she have expanded the Tomb with later earnings from her adventuring?

Sure. Heck, she could've added defenses in layers as she got money and new ideas. The home improvement project from Hel.

[Snails]

It's a very rogueish thing to do, which is one of the reasons why some people (including me) think the invisible creatures are part of Serini's inner or outer circle.

I like you reasoning.

Mechanically speaking, a poison that does attribute damage fits the bill. When Con = zero, that is death. But any of the other 5 going to zero results in variants of helplessness, which is a good fit for what is observed.

By D&D RAW standards, it would be an absurdly expensive poison to be powerful enough to expect it to work against two Paladins. They make poor targets for such things, because if you do not knock them down quickly, most Paladins of that level can Neutralize or Lesser Restoration to mitigate the effects.

That said, Serini is presumably Epic level and has had much time to prepare specific tactics like this. Blowing a pair of 50,000gp doses of poison is not a poor choice here, given you know you are up against a Lich (immune to poison) and a high level Cleric (RC would have Delay Poison up 17 hours per day, for his dungeon delving). If you have the poison on hand, you probably will not get a better time to use it than this.

[mjasghar]

Assuming the poison was chosen specifically vs paladins (reasonable as serini would plan for them specifically/ an epic rogue would have a range of poisons on hand) the most likely stay to attack would be Dex. That would incapacitate them whilst allowing for interrogation.

[ebarde]

Honestly the way the entity's comment was worded, it made me think that it was just too strong for a paladin's abilities, since it mentions not knowing if the poison was gonna cut it(although that comment seemed very sardonic). And yeah, I think I was mixing up the 2 dungeon making scenes.

[factotum]

The entity's wording also suggested that the poison would be fatal if left untreated, which a Dex poison would not be--of course, it could have been lying about that.

[danielxcutter]

The entity's wording also suggested that the poison would be fatal if left untreated, which a Dex poison would not be--of course, it could have been lying about that.

Sense Motive is surprisingly not on either the Paladin or the Cleric lists, so that’s possible. And unless it’s something like Black Lotus Extract, it’s hard to kill someone with just the poison’s Con damage alone; O’Chul likely has close to twice the score of Therkla. And that’s got the highest total Constitution damage, so unless that was some kind of poison cocktail like Killer of Heroes I doubt he would have actually died from that.

[Emanick]

I assume that the initial damage dealt by the poison was Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma damage (or unconsciousness, I guess). O-Chul seems to fall unconscious, which Strength or Dexterity poison wouldn't cause; those would only paralyze him, as we see here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0712.html) and here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0038.html).


Sense Motive is surprisingly not on either the Paladin or the Cleric lists, so that’s possible. And unless it’s something like Black Lotus Extract, it’s hard to kill someone with just the poison’s Con damage alone; O’Chul likely has close to twice the score of Therkla. And that’s got the highest total Constitution damage, so unless that was some kind of poison cocktail like Killer of Heroes I doubt he would have actually died from that.

It strikes me as a reasonable guess that the poison actually likely wouldn't have killed O-Chul, but that the invisible beings probably expected it to. Black Lotus Extract, for instance, does an average of 21 Constitution damage, which would not kill O-Chul but which would kill almost any other adventurer. The invisible creatures would be very unlikely to know that O-Chul was practically the most resilient humanoid on the planet, so they wouldn't have to be bluffing in order to be wrong about the poison being deadly.

[danielxcutter]

I assume that the initial damage dealt by the poison was Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma damage (or unconsciousness, I guess). O-Chul seems to fall unconscious, which Strength or Dexterity poison wouldn't cause; those would only paralyze him, as we see here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0712.html) and here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0038.html).

Or the poison deals Constitution or other ability damage alongside that. There are a few poisons that affect multiple abilities, I think.


It strikes me as a reasonable guess that the poison actually likely wouldn't have killed O-Chul, but that the invisible beings probably expected it to. Black Lotus Extract, for instance, does an average of 21 Constitution damage, which would not kill O-Chul but which would kill almost any other adventurer. The invisible creatures would be very unlikely to know that O-Chul was practically the most resilient humanoid on the planet, so they wouldn't have to be bluffing in order to be wrong about the poison being deadly.

Fair, though I don’t think there are many poisons that don’t deal enough damage on their own to easily kill an adventurer regardless. Black Lotus Extract deals the most as a single poison by far, and also they presumably used the same poison to knock out Lien, so either it’s not super fatal and they can get the two to a safe spot quickly, or that was total BS.

[Jasdoif]

The invisible creatures would be very unlikely to know that O-Chul was practically the most resilient humanoid on the planet, so they wouldn't have to be bluffing in order to be wrong about the poison being deadly.Especially if they could poison O-Chul again with more darts.

[Quizatzhaderac]

I'm thinking there's an "expanded rule-set" thing going on here.

3.5e poisons have an effect immediately or an independent one minute later.

O-Chul had no immediate effect and effect 1 after (what seems like) less than a minute. The voice suggested there would be a second effect some time in the future.

Lien passed out immediately.

In real life, puncture poisons build increase rate of damage for about a minute, then slowly decrease the rate.

On TV, poisoning has a series of stages with vague periods of time to progress from one to another.

IMHO, we're clearly working with something like a TV variant of the rules. For example: there's a range of failures on the DC roles that determine the time each effect takes to happen.

[Algeh]

I just noticed that in the third panel Durkon is frowning and facing in a different direction from the others, and after that we see the other five members of the Order re-corporealize on the ledge, but not Durkon.

It’s probably nothing, just coincidence - can’t fit every character in every strip - but does anyone thing Durkon might have gone to try to talk to one of the members of Team Evil?

I know this is from pages and pages ago, but I'm just catching up on this thread, and it seemed like a good point not much discussed yet. Since Durkon, as far as I can tell, also wears either armored boots or regular boots, we also can't tell from Belkar's comments whether or not he's present. We also haven't seen Minrah on the ledge yet, who would be the most likely second character to go off with Durkon. Of course, we've only had a few panels so far, but it seems like Durkon would usually be casting True Seeing to help search at this point.

[tawnyterror]

I'm not articulate enough to discuss plot elements so I will say one thing- I love that V wears "ridiculous little wizard slippers".

[KorvinStarmast]

I am not sure if this is an artifact of how the drawing tries to depict depth, but I recall Go boards being square, and the Go board between Elan and Hinjo looks to be rectangular. (9 squares left to right, and it seem to be 10 or 11 deep)

NVM, just zoomed it up and counted again. 9 x 9.

[BaconAnger]

I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been keeping up with the forum theories very well, so I'm super willing to bet I'm not the first to say this, but... I'd like to admit I'm pretty excited to meet who I'm pretty sure are War and Pestilence, from the scene where they kidnapped O-chul.

And maybe the new death lady? who beat the old death in a wet t-shirt contest? IIRC?

[InvisibleBison]

And maybe the new death lady? who beat the old death in a wet t-shirt contest? IIRC?

You don't become Death if you beat Death in a contest, you get to stay alive.

[factotum]

You don't become Death if you beat Death in a contest, you get to stay alive.

Depends. In Piers Anthony's "Incarnations of Immortality" series, where entities like Death and Mother Nature are actually humans who take the jobs on for a while, the way to become Death is actually to kill your predecessor. (The main character in the first book is about to commit suicide when the old Death appears, and he's so horror-struck that he shoots Death instead of himself, thus becoming the new incarnation of Death).

[Ron Miel]

Can we be sure Death actually lost the wet T-shirt contest? Maybe the judge was Tsukiko.

[danielxcutter]

Can we be sure Death actually lost the wet T-shirt contest? Maybe the judge was Tsukiko.

Why would -

*googles "Wet T-Shirt challenge"*

OH. Well, to be fair Tsukiko isn't really into girls...

[Fyraltari]

Really? Because I heard she did both.
It’s actually not that hard to tell when they’re just a skeleton.

[danielxcutter]

Really? Because I heard she did both.
It’s actually not that hard to tell when they’re just a skeleton.

I think she said it's hard to tell because it was just bones, actually?

[Fyraltari]

I think she said it's hard to tell because it was just bones, actually?

Nope, she said "It's hard to tell when they're just a skeleton (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)" which considering how long she spends in the company of the living dead sounds like a lie.

[danielxcutter]

Nope, she said "It's hard to tell when they're just a skeleton" which considering how long she spends in the company of the living dead sounds like a lie.

Well, her usual "children" are more fleshy types like wights...

Actually, what skill would be relevant? Heal?

[Fyraltari]

Well, her usual "children" are more fleshy types like wights...

Actually, what skill would be relevant? Heal?

Isn't animating skeletons where every necromancers start?

[danielxcutter]

Isn't animating skeletons where every necromancers start?

I mean, you usually don't really care about what gender they were before dying, and you can also make zombies with that spell just fine. Considering her tastes, she might have started with those.

[Fyraltari]

I mean, you usually don't really care about what gender they were before dying, and you can also make zombies with that spell just fine. Considering her tastes, she might have started with those.

She clearly is into skeletons, though.

[danielxcutter]

She clearly is into skeletons, though.

Hmm, point taken.

[Peelee]

Nope, she said "It's hard to tell when they're just a skeleton (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)" which considering how long she spends in the company of the living dead sounds like a lie.

Unless it is hard to tell when they're just a skeleton. Maybe it's easy to tell if you see skeletons drawn by a talentless hack of a sketch artist (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0339.html).:smallamused:

[Fyraltari]

Unless it is hard to tell when they're just a skeleton. Maybe it's easy to tell if you see skeletons drawn by a talentless hack of a sketch artist (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0339.html).:smallamused:

It's true that even the most observant (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html) may have trouble with them.

[danielxcutter]

It's true that even the most observant (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0431.html) may have trouble with them.

I mean, Tsukiko is literally incapable of seeing highly visible doors. I wouldn't be surprised if such a weakness also extended to not being good at noticing things like that.

[Fyraltari]

I mean, Tsukiko is literally incapable of seeing highly visible doors. I wouldn't be surprised if such a weakness also extended to not being good at noticing things like that.

I meant Redcloak needing the necklaces, I wasn't making fun.

[danielxcutter]

I meant Redcloak needing the necklaces, I wasn't making fun.

I didn't think you were. And now I just realize that could have been taken as you saying I was unobservant.

Still, even if Redcloak is not an expert on the undead, I don't think it's terribly easy to tell either way.

[Fyraltari]

I didn't think you were. And now I just realize that could have been taken as you saying I was unobservant.

Still, even if Redcloak is not an expert on the undead, I don't think it's terribly easy to tell either way.

Isn't Redcloak supposed to have a very high Wis making him very perspective? Yet he is unable to differentiate the skeletons even though they'd have varying heights and cranial features*. Because as Peelee pointed out this is a stick webcomic. Which also explains why Tsukiko can't tell the difference between a male and female skeleton.

http://www.gallifreyannewsroom.com/oldsite/Guess%20who%20modelled%20for%20the%20skulls%20in%2 0Doctor%20Who%20episode%20Heaven%20Sent..._files/image001.jpg
https://s2.qwant.com/thumbr/0x380/d/1/b3d27a9b6be7c51b431572e8ce2cd526597353c95a962b0f3c 5999b9146062/Crane2.png?u=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2F wikipedia%2Fcommons%2F3%2F37%2FCrane2.png&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=1

[Peelee]

I wasn't ven aware that Peter Capaldi was dead.

[danielxcutter]

I didn't know there was someone named Peter Capaldi.

Also, there is a difference between male and female skeletons, but I don't think it'd be easy to tell at a glance even for an undead expert like Tsukiko.

[factotum]

AFAIK, the main difference between male and female skeletons isn't the skull, it's the pelvis--the woman's skeleton will have a much wider hole in the middle to make room for babies to make their way out.

[Fyraltari]

I wasn't ven aware that Peter Capaldi was dead.
He's not, the BBC just needed his skull for Doctor Who for a bit.

AFAIK, the main difference between male and female skeletons isn't the skull, it's the pelvis--the woman's skeleton will have a much wider hole in the middle to make room for babies to make their way out.
Yes, I was just using the skull pictures to show that one does not need to be an expert to be able to tell two unrelated skeletons apart.

As for determining a skeleton's anatomical sex, a look at the tailbone is more than enough.
https://s2.qwant.com/thumbr/700x0/5/a/ac48d220a531499268080e8901eddd24bb826d438c758d0bd6 47beb8254e7b/55858.jpg?u=http%3A%2F%2Fvoer.edu.vn%2Ffile%2F5585 8&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=1

[Peelee]

https://s2.qwant.com/thumbr/700x0/5/a/ac48d220a531499268080e8901eddd24bb826d438c758d0bd6 47beb8254e7b/55858.jpg?u=http%3A%2F%2Fvoer.edu.vn%2Ffile%2F5585 8&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=1

Nice pelvic bowl. [/gabe]

[Rogar Demonblud]

AFAIK, the main difference between male and female skeletons isn't the skull, it's the pelvis--the woman's skeleton will have a much wider hole in the middle to make room for babies to make their way out.

Well, it's really that the pelvic bones form more of a cradle to help carrying the weight of the baby safely and more comfortably. Hence the phrase 'child-bearing hips'.

[Snails]

Well, it's really that the pelvic bones form more of a cradle to help carrying the weight of the baby safely and more comfortably. Hence the phrase 'child-bearing hips'.

Safe for the baby, but I am not sure how comfortable that is for the mother.

While your point is mostly true, the bigger factor is the engineering compromise between being an upright walker who has to carry the weight of bladder and intestines and baby, and having a space big enough for a baby with an enormous head to pass through.

Quadruped females generally have a much easier time giving birth, in comparison.

Male human hips can be optimized for running and walking. It is one of the reasons that men are faster runners. (But, weirdly enough, women do just as well as ultra-marathoners.)

[Rogar Demonblud]

That's more about endurance, not speed.

[Fyraltari]

Safe for the baby, but I am not sure how comfortable that is for the mother.

While your point is mostly true, the bigger factor is the engineering compromise between being an upright walker who has to carry the weight of bladder and intestines and baby, and having a space big enough for a baby with an enormous head to pass through.

Quadruped females generally have a much easier time giving birth, in comparison.

Male human hips can be optimized for running and walking. It is one of the reasons that men are faster runners. (But, weirdly enough, women do just as well as ultra-marathoners.)

That compromise is why humans are born ridiculously prematurely compared to other animals. Seriously a foal can walk the day it is born, it take us years to do so. Being born unfinished is also part of why human children are much more subject to external influences than adult.

[Emanick]

Isn't Redcloak supposed to have a very high Wis making him very perspective? Yet he is unable to differentiate the skeletons even though they'd have varying heights and cranial features*. Because as Peelee pointed out this is a stick webcomic. Which also explains why Tsukiko can't tell the difference between a male and female skeleton.

This is a bit subjective, but I'd consider being able to tell the difference between male and female skeletons a Knowledge (anatomy) check, or maaaaaybe a Heal check if I'm feeling generous (perhaps having 5 ranks in Heal would give a synergy bonus to the Knowledge check or something). Identifying the sex of a skeleton, especially one from a different species, seems like it would have more to do with Intelligence than Wisdom. Redcloak is smart, of course, but identifying the sex of a skeleton is an applied skill, not a wholly intuitive one, so I'm not sure his raw intelligence would be enough. Even Tsukiko might not know the difference if she'd simply never bothered to learn - which would certainly be very odd, but I suppose it wouldn't be the first time she was willfully blind to certain features of the undead.


He's not, the BBC just needed his skull for Doctor Who for a bit.

Thank you for referencing my favorite episode. My favorite episode of what? Of anything, really.

[Fyraltari]

This is a bit subjective, but I'd consider being able to tell the difference between male and female skeletons a Knowledge (anatomy) check, or maaaaaybe a Heal check if I'm feeling generous (perhaps having 5 ranks in Heal would give a synergy bonus to the Knowledge check or something). Identifying the sex of a skeleton, especially one from a different species, seems like it would have more to do with Intelligence than Wisdom. Redcloak is smart, of course, but identifying the sex of a skeleton is an applied skill, not a wholly intuitive one, so I'm not sure his raw intelligence would be enough.
I never said Redcloak could tell the skeletons’ sexes at a glance just that he could be expected not to have to rely on pendants to tell them apart because, were this not a stick comic, the skeletons wouldn’t be identical.

Even Tsukiko might not know the difference if she'd simply never bothered to learn - which would certainly be very odd, but I suppose it wouldn't be the first time she was willfully blind to certain features of the undead.
I personally find it funnier to imagine that she feels the need to hide her bisexuality but is completely open about being a corpse******.

[bunsen_h]

Isn't animating skeletons where every necromancers start?

Xykon started with his dead pet dog "Barky".

[Jasdoif]

Nope, she said "It's hard to tell when they're just a skeleton (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)" which considering how long she spends in the company of the living dead sounds like a lie.Well, her usual "children" are more fleshy types like wights...

Actually, what skill would be relevant? Heal?Probably the Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm) category corresponding to the creature's original type; that would cover knowledge of how/if sexual dimorphism applies to a particular kind of creature in a way that can be determined from their skeletal structure, and a skeleton would retain the original creature's skeletal structure.

[danielxcutter]

Probably the Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm) category corresponding to the creature's original type; that would cover knowledge of how/if sexual dimorphism applies to a particular kind of creature in a way that can be determined from their skeletal structure, and a skeleton would retain the original creature's skeletal structure.

So... Knowledge(local) then, since that covers humanoids.

[brian 333]

Profession: Forensics Analyst
Profession: Physician
Knowledge: Anatomy (Human, Demi-human, Humanoid)

This isn't the farthest digression from the comic I've seen, but it's in the top ten. (One could argue that it has to do with Belkar's tracking skill...)

[Schroeswald]

Profession: Forensics Analyst
Profession: Physician
Knowledge: Anatomy (Human, Demi-human, Humanoid)

This isn't the farthest digression from the comic I've seen, but it's in the top ten. (One could argue that it has to do with Belkar's tracking skill...)

Oh come on, there were probably at least ten more off topic digressions in the past year.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Profession: Forensics Analyst
Profession: Physician
Knowledge: Anatomy (Human, Demi-human, Humanoid)

Why not Knowledge: Nature?

[Jasdoif]

Nope, she said "It's hard to tell when they're just a skeleton (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html)" which considering how long she spends in the company of the living dead sounds like a lie.Well, her usual "children" are more fleshy types like wights...

Actually, what skill would be relevant? Heal?Probably the Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm) category corresponding to the creature's original type; that would cover knowledge of how/if sexual dimorphism applies to a particular kind of creature in a way that can be determined from their skeletal structure, and a skeleton would retain the original creature's skeletal structure.So... Knowledge(local) then, since that covers humanoids.If the "crypt-thing" (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html) in question was originally a humanoid, yes. That probably shouldn't be taken for granted, though.

[danielxcutter]

If the "crypt-thing" (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html) in question was originally a humanoid, yes. That probably shouldn't be taken for granted, though.

Hmm, true. Even with a reasonably high Int, though, between the requirements of Mystic Theurge and common investments like Spellcraft and Concentration, I suppose she might not have put (sufficient) ranks into the relevant Knowledge skill regardless.

[Dion]

Oh come on, there were probably at least ten more off topic digressions in the past year.

I dont know. This one seems unusual because it’s still about the comic and not about Star Wars.

[Peelee]

I dont know. This one seems unusual because it’s still about the comic and not about Star Wars.

Imean, if you map Roy, Haley, Elan, Durkon, V, and Belkar to Han, Luke, Chewbacca, Kenobi, C-3PO, and R2-D2; and Redcloak and Xykon to Tarquin and Vader; and the canyon to the Death Star, then it's more or less recreating the first movie.

[Schroeswald]

I dont know. This one seems unusual because it’s still about the comic and not about Star Wars.

It may be more unusual than normal but its not farther away than Star Wars (which its been so long since we discussed, next comic I'll probably bring us over to it).

[ebarde]

The characters being stick figures isn't just a out of universe way of portraying them, it's literally how they see themselves in universe too. Probably a part of why Nale's extremely makeshift switcheroo worked, since just glueing facial hair on someone would be extremely noticeable.

[Syncrogti]

Imean, if you map Roy, Haley, Elan, Durkon, V, and Belkar to Han, Luke, Chewbacca, Kenobi, C-3PO, and R2-D2; and Redcloak and Xykon to Tarquin and Vader; and the canyon to the Death Star, then it's more or less recreating the first movie.

So Does this make the MITD either Jabba the Hut, or the trash compactor creature?

[Peelee]

So Does this make the MITD either Jabba the Hut, or the trash compactor creature?

Jar Jar Binks.:smalltongue:

[Jasdoif]

So Does this make the MITD either Jabba the Hut, or the trash compactor creature?Probably one of the Jawas, if facial features are any indication.

[Rogar Demonblud]

There is a distinct lack of UTINIIIII!!!!

[Quizatzhaderac]

... were this not a stick comic, the skeletons wouldn’t be identical.Well, pretty much every fictional depiction has identical skeletons. It looks like medieval artists tended to draw skeletons in variety. The modern exceptions all tend to be cutesy and/ or ironic.


If the "crypt-thing" (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html) in question was originally a humanoid, yes. That probably shouldn't be taken for granted, though.It's pretty easy to identify an assembled primate skeleton from anything else. I won't say it is or isn't easy to tell between a human versus other great apes, but I strongly doubt undead apes are near as likely as undead sapient humanoids.

[Grey Watcher]

While he dismisses the MITD's question about getting the decoys to look like Xykon, he had to have made SOME effort to find bodies that would match Xykon on at least broad categories like height and build. It's possible that they're similar enough that he can't tell QUICKLY, which is an important factor in the heat of battle.

As for Tsukiko, it could be as simple as the creature was wearing a funeral shroud or something and Tsukiko realized her error when they disrobed. (It's "hard to tell" because skeletal undead lack cues like facial hair). So it's a much more understandable mistake if Tsukiko could only see the crypt keepers face at first.

Overthinking one off gags is fun!

[Peelee]

While he dismisses the MITD's question about getting the decoys to look like Xykon, he had to have made SOME effort to find bodies that would match Xykon on at least broad categories like height and build. It's

Height: Medium
Build: Calcium

I can underthink just as hard as you can overthink!

[KorvinStarmast]

Jar Jar Binks.:smalltongue:
*Thweeeeeeeeeet!*

Referee voice:

*That's Binksing; a two minute minor. Into the penalty box you must go*

[Peelee]

*Thweeeeeeeeeet!*

Referee voice:

*That's Binksing; a two minute minor. Into the penalty box you must go*

Exsqueeeeeze me, wesa warriors! Wesa got a grand army. That's why you no likin' us, mesa thinks.

[KorvinStarmast]

Exsqueeeeeze me, wesa warriors! Wesa got a grand army. That's why you no likin' us, mesa thinks. At this point, the little league ump looks over at your parents and says "Take him home, he's been ejected from the game." :smallfrown: (What makes it reallly hurt is that you're the coach). :smalleek:

[Jasdoif]

If the "crypt-thing" (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html) in question was originally a humanoid, yes. That probably shouldn't be taken for granted, though.It's pretty easy to identify an assembled primate skeleton from anything else.See, you're taking "she was talking about an assembled primate skeleton" for granted.


That's why you no likin' us, mesa thinks.That's where we're plateauing? Sounds like a pain in the butte....

[Dion]

At this point, the little league ump looks over at your parents and says "Take him home, he's been ejected from the game." :smallfrown: (What makes it reallly hurt is that you're the coach). :smalleek:

dad [throwing beer can at umpire’s head] No! You’re the dooku!

Also, the medallions might have been to tell the three new skeletons apart from each other, not to distinguish them from Xykon.

[overthinking is fun!]

[Syncrogti]

OK so I recall a conversation about whether the Gate would really be hidden behind a door at all. Where did that discussion lead?

It does seem likely, (given I know nothing about the person who created it), to make the doors a diversion and the Gate somewhere else.

[brian 333]

Kraggor believed in strength and toughness. Logically, then, the true test is to defeat all of the monsters in Monster Hollow before the gate will appear.

[Dion]

OK so I recall a conversation about whether the Gate would really be hidden behind a door at all. Where did that discussion lead?.

Haley hung a lampshade on the idea back in comic 1198.

The characters have been wrong before, of course. But I can’t think of any cases in the comic where a main character has provided some exposition on a plot point only to discover later later that they were wrong.

Elan... maybe. Haley... never.

[Quizatzhaderac]

See, you're taking "she was talking about an assembled primate skeleton" for granted.Okay, so I'll start by asserting that asserting that Tsuiko should be able to easily tell if it was or wasn't a properly assembled primate skeleton.

I'll dismiss a non-humanoid primate as unlikely.

For an improperly assembled skeleton I'll require a specific 3.5e example. It wouldn't be remotely the weirdest monster, but I think undead putting the undead back together wrong requires five specialty bards. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalocalypse).

As to being the properly assembled skeleton of a non-primate, and that she was fine with that, well you got me there. For getting someone on the internet to admit being wrong you hereby win 42 Internets.


I can underthink just as hard as you can overthink!Is underthink the philosophy of drow?

[Jasdoif]

I'll dismiss a non-humanoid primate as unlikely.Unfortunately, the type categories make a mess of things here....offhand I can think of aberrations, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, and outsiders that are extremely human-shaped but not actually Humanoid (and call for different subcategories of Knowledge). I don't know if those would/should count as primates....


As to being the properly assembled skeleton of a non-primate, and that she was fine with that, well you got me there.Admittedly this might stem from my first thought the first time I read "crypt-thing" (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0700.html) being Warcraft III's crypt fiends; but the specific use of "crypt-thing" seems strange if she was talking about something as presumably common as a human(oid) corpse's skeleton.

[bunsen_h]

Unfortunately, the type categories make a mess of things here....offhand I can think of aberrations, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, and outsiders that are extremely human-shaped but not actually Humanoid (and call for different subcategories of Knowledge). I don't know if those would/should count as primates....

I was going to make a joke about "ape-descended life forms" (http://www.takenotewriting.com/a-wholly-remarkable-book-the-hitchhikers-guide-to-the-galaxy/), but on checking the W'pedia article on primates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate), I see that it covers a lot more territory than that -- lemurs, tarsiers, and such. Many are not remotely human-shaped.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Unfortunately, the type categories make a mess of things here....offhand I can think of aberrations, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, and outsiders that are extremely human-shaped but not actually Humanoid (and call for different subcategories of Knowledge). I don't know if those would/should count as primates....3.5 apes are listed as animals, and I can't think of a single example of a humanoid or monstrous humanoid that isn't sapient, so I'm going to say all humanoids are sapient.

As for the other human shaped things, I think most of them are human enough shaped that one should be able to tell the sex from the skeleton as with humans. For example Cecilia's hips are proportionately larger than every male's.

As for the definition of primate I'd say internal skeleton, upright, two legs, two arms (not wings). For a more technical definition I'd also insist on mammalian traits (mammaries, hair, womb), but those things are nigh impossible to determine from a skeleton of an unidentifiable skeleton.