Champion hunter

[Symbiot]

So my DM thinks my build is starting to look a bit op. We are running through Mad mage and are currently level 9. We have standard points buy. So here i what i have so far
Half orc
Str 16
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 13
Cha 8
Level 1 fighter great weapon fighter
2 fighter, action surge
3 fighter, champion
4 fighter, feat pole arm master
5 fighter, extra attack
6 ranger
7 ranger
8 ranger, hunter, horde breaker
9 fighter, great weapon master
I get 2 attacks s per action, 1 on an enemy within range (10ft with pole arm) due to horde breaker, i get either a d4 from pole arm master or d10 bonus attack from great weapon master, and a aoo if someone moves intoor leaves threat range. Crit on 19 i have access to hunters mark for additional d6 damage per attack if cast.
Majority of rounds im getting all 5 attacks off hitting maybe 3. If i do crit i get savage attack so 3d10. This woth reroll all 1 and 2 on damage dice.
I say its on par of our sorc can cast fireball doing 8d6 - 10d6 to an area. His argument is he can only do it 7 times a day were as i gan have 5 attacks a round.
I would like to know peoples thoughts as i dont want to break our game.
Cheers
Sym

[Aaron Underhand]

Looks strong, but not game breaking.

Remember the horde breaker attack requires the second target to be within 5ft of the first target. Intelligent enemies will split up, and no guarantee that even animals will all be that close. Also your attack roll is based off a 16 (+3) whereas you could have +5. And the criticals don't get the +10 static damage from GWM. That said I believe Horde Breaker is generally underrated.

Hunter's mark loses you a bonus action attack, and another one when the enemy falls, plus you cannot get all attacks against that enemy (horde breaker means one attack on a different target). If your attacks hit for 15 then you probably only break even in the second round, and if the enemy drops and you move the mark each turn it's probably a net loss.

Remember you defense is compromised by lack of shield, and your hit probability by that +3. Compare with 3 levels of Barbarian, and reckless attack/rage, or straight fighter with an extra ASI and say battlemaster precision attack, used when needed. I haven't run the numbers as there are so many assumptions to make, but in actual play I'd expect the differences to be minor.

As a martial you need to be that good, because the casters are bending reality around you...

Once on each of your turns when you make a weapon attack, you can make another attack with the same weapon against a different creature that is within 5 feet of the original target and within range of your weapon.

[LudicSavant]

So my DM thinks my build is starting to look a bit op. We are running through Mad mage and are currently level 9. We have standard points buy. So here i what i have so far
Half orc
Str 16
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 13
Cha 8
Level 1 fighter great weapon fighter
2 fighter, action surge
3 fighter, champion
4 fighter, feat pole arm master
5 fighter, extra attack
6 ranger
7 ranger
8 ranger, hunter, horde breaker
9 fighter, great weapon master
I get 2 attacks s per action, 1 on an enemy within range (10ft with pole arm) due to horde breaker, i get either a d4 from pole arm master or d10 bonus attack from great weapon master, and a aoo if someone moves intoor leaves threat range. Crit on 19 i have access to hunters mark for additional d6 damage per attack if cast.
Majority of rounds im getting all 5 attacks off hitting maybe 3. If i do crit i get savage attack so 3d10. This woth reroll all 1 and 2 on damage dice.
I say its on par of our sorc can cast fireball doing 8d6 - 10d6 to an area. His argument is he can only do it 7 times a day were as i gan have 5 attacks a round.
I would like to know peoples thoughts as i dont want to break our game.
Cheers
Sym

You're not breaking the game, characters can get a lot stronger than this. Especially full spellcasters, who are capable of a lot more than just casting a basic Fireball.

Also, OAs only work if your enemies choose to move a certain way. And Horde Breaker only works if your enemies line up adjacent to each other and are both in range of your weapon. If you're getting that almost every round, it's likely because of your DM's choice of tactics.

[Tes]

Honest question - what does PAM do for you other than the reaction Attack?

Uses for your Bonus Action:
Hunters Mark, move Hunters Mark to new Target, GWM procc, Action Surge

Do you feel like it has been worth a Feat considering GWF with a Maul would be a thing?

Singletarget assuming all hits, ignoring GWM -5/+10

Glaive with PAM:
Opener
2 Attacks, Hordebreaker Attack, Reaction Attack, Cast Hunters Mark
4D10 (22) + 4D6 (17.5) + 4x3STR = 51.5 avg
Turn 2
2 Attacks, Hordebreaker Attack, Reaction Attack, PAM Bonus Attack & Hunters Mark up
4D10 (22) + 1D4 (2.5) + 5D6 (17.5) + 5x3STR = 57avg

Maul (+2 STR for ASI)
Opener
2 Attacks, Hordebreaker Attack, Cast Hunters Mark
6D6 (21avg) + 4D6 (14avg) + 3x4STR = 47 avg
Turn 2
2 Attacks, Hordebreaker Attack, GWM procc & Hunters Mark up
8D6 (28avg) + 4D6 (14avg) + 4x4STR = 58 avg


Note: Mace/Greatsword is more damage than Greataxe even as Champion Half Orc until you get Crits on 18s
Maul pulls ahead overall taking into account:
+1 to Hit, Rerolling 1&2s, Action Surge, Bonus Action unavailable sometimes, Reaction Attack unavailable sometimes
Even if you can't procc GWM


Given how many conditions are attached to all your damage, something like an Oath of Vengeance Paladin can easily match you (Having permanent Advantage on demand 1/Short Rest and with Smites & Haste vs your Actionsurge) and leaves you behind if he crits to Smite off and pulls ahead of you at 11 with Improved Divine Smite. On 11 a Pure Fighter with PAM would have 5 Attacks a turn with no strings attached, Battlemasters can turn a lot of those near misses into hits with a +10 to damage riding on it. Sorlocks with Quickened EB and Hex up do more than you at 120 ft range.
And as you mention correctly, Fireball is a thing.
Under less restrictive conditions than Hordebreaker + Hunters Mark it still does more than you against 3 targets even taking DC into consideration. I like your build, looks like a fun take to build a gishy Fighter without EK. But without a way to generate permanent Advantage for yourself from someone else in the party (Wolf Barbarian or something like that) it's really a lot less damage than it looks. Considering how often you'll miss those +10 hits if your try to go for them.

[firelistener]

Your fighter/ranger is very well optimized, so the DM is correct in perceiving a noticeable power difference. However, it's not game-breaking at all. Your character is horrendously vulnerable to charisma saves, which there are plenty of in the Mad Mage campaign. Then there's damage resistance, assuming you don't have a magic weapon (but I would guess that you do), which can lower your damage output considerably. Also, you can only activate your Reaction once per round, so the DM can have enemies slide past you just fine if they have the high AC ones try to tank your attack of opportunity first. You're also heavily susceptible to disadvantage. As DM, I'd probably try to get you with blindness or magical darkness, or just plop high AC enemies next to you and have them that the Dodge action, making attacks of opportunity if you try to move away from them.

[LudicSavant]

Another thing, you only have a +3 Strength, so without a consistent source of advantage those GWM attacks will be quite inaccurate.

In fact, with Hunter's Mark, Great Weapon Fighting style, no advantage, and those 5 attacks of yours, an enemy would need to have an AC of 13 or less in order for you to deal more damage with GWM than if you had just taken a +2 to Strength. Accuracy is pretty important for average damage, especially if you're adding bonus dice (like from hunter's mark). New players often overestimate GWM because they just look at the damage increase, but not the lost accuracy. It's a good feat, but OP? Nah.

Also, you're a frontliner without especially good mobility skills, so enemies should be able to kite you. And you're a frontliner with an unimpressive AC since you don't have a shield or any other particularly effective defense boosters beyond your plate armor.

Also, you have a spin-up time. You can't target someone with Hunter's Mark on the same turn that you get a GWM or PAM bonus action attack.

[Symbiot]

Thanks for the input. I agree most is situational. Our party consists of a forge cleric a sorc a barb and a paladin so i tend to be 2nd line. And running mad mage its generally small rooms and corridors so the grouping is pretty tight on mobs. I generally is hunyers when its a boss not just mobs when 4 potential d6 is better than a d4+3, pam gives me the aoo when enter range. We play flanking as an optional rule so we sometime gain advantage.
As i said thanks for the imput i will speak with the GM and see what he says as i want to keep the game fun for all.

[LudicSavant]

We play flanking as an optional rule so we sometime gain advantage.

That's probably a bigger balance issue than anything your character build has.

[Jerrykhor]

DM: Your build is OP!
You: Thanks, i know how to play the game. Also, flanking rules.
DM: But its doing too much damage!
You: I know right? Isn't it awesome?