PDA

View Full Version : Optimization Abjuration Wizard for Dungeon Crawl



Enderasha
2020-05-28, 03:32 PM
I typically DM, but a Roll20 group has been taking a break between campaigns and trying some new stuff. A non D&D one shot and some other players DM'ing mini adventures. I'm getting to play so I wanted to make something interesting. This will be a LEVEL 10 somewhat dungeon crawl tomb raiding adventure. I am expecting a need for combat capability and out of combat utility. We get 1 rare magic item and 2 uncommon magic items.

At first I was looking at Treantmonks "Cockroach build - Yuan-ti Paladin of the ancients 7 / Warlock 1 / War Mage 2 to be virtually unkillable. AC 23 (25 with shield of faith) and 30 with that plus the shield spell; magic resistance on saves and damage; really high saves, and booming blade reactions

I started having second thoughts. It is fun in concept but feels a little cheesy and for a less experienced DM throwing a character like that in there might be a bit much. Also, not convinced the character has enough 'bite' in it to encourage things to try prying open the tin can especially if he's that hard to hurt.

So I thought, if I want to wade into melee but be different I'd like to try something different and go Abjuration wizard. So my question here is which of the following two builds do you think would be more fun in a dungeon crawl and play nice with an unknown group make-up.

Build 1 - Deep Gnome Hexblade 1 / Abjuration Wizard 9
Caster level 9 (1 level 5 slot) with 1 short rest slot
Feats - Svirfneblin Magic to recharge Ward, War Caster
Pros - Armor of Agathys / Arcane Ward shenanigans. While having some important battlefield control spells active like Banishment/Slow/Hypnotic Pattern or even Animate Objects it makes it really painful to take shots at me; Hexblade Curse
Cons - I always feel dirty taking a dip into hexblade, drinking deep the cheese that is the front loaded class. Losing a level 5 spell slot for the adventure

Build 2 - Deep Gnome Grave Cleric 1 / Abjuration Wizard 9
Caster level 10
Feats - Svirfneblin Magic to recharge Ward, War Caster
Pros - Healing magic, Circle of Mortality actually lets me help people out in a pinch and could very likely fulfill the healing needs of the group so the cleric or druid (if someone picks one) really only needs to worry about emergencies or revivifying and can spend time buffing.
Guidance; and two level 5 spell slots
Cons - Some less offense and no Armor of Agathys abuse

Build X - If another class or domain for cleric would work better here as a one level dip I'm open to options. I've seen support for the Forge Domain here and there. This might do more in terms of benefiting myself specifically

I understand straight 10 levels of Abjuration gets the perk for counterspell and dispel magic. In this case I explicitly wanted to multiclass for armor proficiency even if it isn't the perfect plan.

kaervaak
2020-05-28, 03:49 PM
If Eberron is on the table then Mark of Warding Dwarf Artificer 1/ Abjuration wizard 9 is amazing.

Mark of warding dwarf gives you battle axe and war-hammer, +2 con +1 int and adds Armor of Agathys to your spell list.

Artificer gives you heavy/hand cross-bow, medium armor, shields, and Con save proficiency plus 2 cantrips (Guidance!) and an expanded spell list that includes cure wounds and faerie fire. Plus thieve's tool proficiency that increased with guidance and mark of warding's warder's intuition (+2d4). Artificer levels round up for spell casting progression, so you won't lose anything (except 1 level delay on learning spells of a new level) from taking the 1 level dip.

Dualswinger
2020-05-28, 08:41 PM
If you're gonna go warlock, take a second level. The Armor of shadows invocation basically lets you recharge your arcane ward for free! :)

Enderasha
2020-05-28, 09:25 PM
The Svirfneblin magic feat does that via infinite Nondetectiom. If I went the Armor of Agathys route I didn’t want to miss out on 5th level spells for this adventure since I don’t expect to level up for a while. It also lets me do the infinite ward recharge in the non Armor of Agathys/warlock builds

Enderasha
2020-05-28, 11:08 PM
Also worth noting the Mage Armor trick only works if you aren’t wearing armor. You can’t cast it at all if you’re wearing some so this is far less useful of an option if I’m looking to wear armor as part of the build.

LudicSavant
2020-05-28, 11:22 PM
Also worth noting the Mage Armor trick only works if you aren’t wearing armor. You can’t cast it at all if you’re wearing some so this is far less useful of an option if I’m looking to wear armor as part of the build.

[Citation needed]

The rules for invalid spell targets suggests that you can cast a spell even if you choose an invalid target, it just won't do anything. But that doesn't actually matter for recharging the ward; the ward only cares if you cast an Abjuration spell.



A spell specifies what a caster can target with it: any type of creature, a creature of a certain type (humanoid or beast, for instance), an object, an area, the caster, or something else. But what happens if a spell targets something that isn't a valid target? For example, someone might cast charm person on a creature believed to be a humanoid, not knowing that the target is in fact a vampire. If this issue comes up, handle it using the following rule.
If you cast a spell on someone or something that can't be affected by the spell, nothing happens to that target, but if you used a spell slot to cast the spell, the slot is still expended. If the spell normally has no effect on a target that succeeds on a saving throw, the invalid target appears to have succeeded on its saving throw, even though it didn't attempt one (giving no hint that the creature is in fact an invalid target). Otherwise, you perceive that the spell did nothing to the target.

Enderasha
2020-05-29, 06:04 AM
Fair enough. The concept of valid targets invalidating a spell outside of charm person is not one that has come up often for me. Charm person starting with “you attempt” seemed different than “You touch a willing creature who isn't wearing armor”. I would definitely defer to people here and if a DM was cool with that it sounds like it would work. I know the combo has existed for a while but typically in those builds I read the character was actually using the mage armor.

I was opting for Svirfneblin Magic as a feat to do the same thing since it is a way to get free ward recharge without two levels of warlock and losing 5th level spells for the adventure. nondetection returning 6 hp an action refills the ward in 1/3 the time. Minor but not insignificant.

Since I’m taking two feats and this adventure has a limited level cap I will likely use a headband of intellect as one of my magic items.

Eldariel
2020-05-29, 07:13 AM
You can always just Ritual Cast Alarm to recharge the Ward, so that isn't that much of an issue. Of course, it's quicker to burn spell slots.

Enderasha
2020-05-29, 07:24 AM
The alarm option is available to all builds at 12 ward health per hour, fairly slow. All builds can burn slots to charge it in and out of combat.

This build would have at will nondetection at 6 health per action so free and faster without a second warlock spell level as identified as the other way to do it.

The issue is if I was doing this and wanted to dip for amor proficiency what would be the best way to do it hence the two options I posted. Warlock gives the Armor of Agathys shenanigans and cleric is just generally considered a good dip but the question is domain. Open to other options too

diplomancer
2020-05-29, 08:23 AM
I second the Mark of Warding dwarf with 1 artificer dip. I've been testing one, and it's powerful and fun. Paladin of my party was surprised when I called him "squishy".
The extra castings of Mage Armor, Alarm, and Arcane Lock, together with your Armor of Agathys, means that you will usually be able to easily recharge your ward. At low levels, Mage Armor on you is a better choice than Scale Mail. Once you get Breastplate, you can still cast it on a party member or even on your familiar. A Moon Druid in the party will be very grateful for it.

Eldariel
2020-05-29, 08:30 AM
Cleric isn't bad. The cost of Wis hurts your stats but Wis is a good stat to have anyways so that's not all that. Cleric doesn't lose any casting on this level and all Clerics get all the proficiencies you might want (Medium Armor, Shield). If you wanna fight, you can always go Dex (or Shillelagh for Wis even) and go to town

Good options include:
Knowledge: It gets the parts you care about and makes you godlike at two Knowledges (Int caster with Expertise is pretty good). A dungeon might easily include stuff where Knowledges matter a bunch.
Grave: It's not a bad choice at all. Spare the Dying as a bonus action makes it worth casting and kinda free, and while you'll never be much of a healer, getting to maximize your Healing Word (or even Familiar'd Cure Wounds) on downed allies isn't entirely without merit.
Order: It's a nice bonus for something like Haste (or a heal spell) if you're of such inclination. Cast it on an ally already in melee and give them two free whacks for the first round of the spell.
Forge: Getting to wear a +1 Heavy Armor isn't bad if you have a turtle inclination (even without the prerequisite str it just means you move slower)
Nature: If you, for whatever reason, wanna go Con/Int/Wis fighter I guess?


Honestly, any of those is fine. I'd lean towards Order for the combat benefits myself but I'll admit that Grave has a nice ring to it as well. Hexblade...well, depends on the Magic Missile reading. If DM goes your way, that can be real nice; if not, it's cool but not necessarily better than a Cleric especially since giving up a second 5th level slot is kinda major. Of course, Armor of Agathys + Abjurer's Ward is always strong and as a Wizard you have plenty of ways to make them hit you. It's worth noting that Wizard 10 would make you a lot better at fighting magic though.

Ultimately, for meleeing specifically I think Hexblade dip is the strongest but I do think you are offensively more powerful if you go e.g. Order Cleric and have more utility with e.g. Knowledge Cleric (or straight Abjurer 10).

Enderasha
2020-05-29, 08:35 AM
I’m not sure we’re playing with Eberron content sadly. With that and Ravnica and Wildmount being entirely different settings we’ve steered clear.

I like where that build idea was going. It does give up on the at-will abjuration ward recharge I was gaming for (filling up the ward in 24 seconds as opposed to long slow rituals) but it does sort of pull in the warlock armor of Agathys gimmick with no caster progression penalty.

Enderasha
2020-05-29, 08:40 AM
I do acknowledge abjurer 10 is very strong. Since this is a short run game and I’ve been dying to try the infinite abjurer’ award gimmick for a while it seemed good. I also wanted to get a bit beefier and the Hexblade porcupine route is saucy, and the cleric domains provide pretty significant gameplay boosts for a party.

Also with it being a dungeon crawl and traps will likely happen having a free shareable 22 health shield I can protect the rogue or anyone else with is nice since I can refill it half a minute later.

Regarding the Order domain commanding attack type ability it does require actively targeting party members with spells. I’m not saying that is impossible but I’m wondering if in combat when I’m almost entirely a wizard how often I’ll be triggering that when doing controlling/offensive magic. I plan to play more as a CC debuff caster holding onto strong concentration spells making me a juicy target.

diplomancer
2020-05-29, 09:57 AM
I’m not sure we’re playing with Eberron content sadly. With that and Ravnica and Wildmount being entirely different settings we’ve steered clear.

I like where that build idea was going. It does give up on the at-will abjuration ward recharge I was gaming for (filling up the ward in 24 seconds as opposed to long slow rituals) but it does sort of pull in the warlock armor of Agathys gimmick with no caster progression penalty.

I'd say Eberron content is well-balanced, better balanced than either Ravnica (for sure) or Wildmount (very possibly). It had extensive playtesting with the Wayfarer's Guide, and the more overpowered things (like the warforged) were nerfed with Rising from the Last War.

Mark of Warding Dwarf Abjurer is crazy good and fun, but not overpowered. The artificer dip is worth it more for the shield proficiency and the bunch of useful 1st level spells you can prepare (5 with Int 20), freeing up a lot of your Wizard spell preparations, and the not slowing spellcasting is just gravy. Armor proficiency is nice, but oddly enough your companions or your familiar will benefit more from it, since it frees up your free Mage Armor casting. The thieves' tools proficiency is also very helpful. With a 14 dex, you're about as good as a Rogue with 20 dex but no expertise. You are also BETTER at disarming traps than the Rogue, unless he took expertise in Investigation (in which case it's about a tie at 10th level if the Rogue has 16 int, but still advantage you, by a half-point).

For a dungeon crawl, that's a hard to beat package. Even the extra casting of Arcane Lock will probably find a good use beyond recharging your ward. (and honestly, I think it's far less cheesy than the Deep Gnome Hexblade 1/Abjurer 9)