Tanky Celestial Tomelock?

[athorod]

So, I wanted to play a hexblade tomelock with crossbow expert feat to be quite tanky in melee when we're going to play Storm King's Thunder.

But for some reason my DM won't let me play Hexblade (he wants us to play goodie-two-shoes and doesn't think the hexblade fits what he has in mind).

So then I thought I'd make a celestial tomelock instead. But I want him to be ok in melee, because the rest of the party seems to be quite squishy as well.

My best idea right now is to take variant human with medium armor feat and 8-14-14-10-12-16 (standard array). Then I will get OK armor class at least. I'll run around with a dagger until I'll reach 3 where I can take Shillelagh and green-flame and/or booming blade. Or perhaps it's better to take crossbow expert at 4th? But then I'll have low cha for a while... I'm not too keen on pact of the blade since it'll limit the versaility and the eldritch blast often will be a better choice anyhow.

If I was to multiclass, I would have to stay with the first class until I've chosen the subclass (says our DM) and find a mentor for the new class. I'm not sure I want to go three levels into another class before becoming a warlock - or the other way around. Will also have to meet the stats requirement with standard array. And I initially would like to stay single class, but I suppose I could be persuaded to go multiclass.

I'm sorry if I'm rambling a bit in this post, but I hope I get my point across. Is there a way to build a tanky celestial warlock who is quite good in melee without having to use more than 1 feat?

[Cyclops08]

why go with crossbow when you have Eldritch Blast?
and you might as well go 4 levels to get the +2 stat upgrade before you multiclass (you're at 3 already).

[athorod]

Not to use crossbow, but to cast eldritch blast in melee without disadvantage (with crossbow expert feat).

I think I would have gone another class, then warlock x.

But I might just settle for vhuman and medium armor. Unless I can manage taking hits without medium armor and shield.

(Quite new to 5e, so I might be missing something). 😊

[Joe the Rat]

This is basically the build I used for Randal - save that he is Fiend rather than Celestial. The key thing here is that you can use a shield - that's a healthy bump to your AC. It does make hand-space tricky (I grabbed warcaster, and used my wooden staff focus for my shillelagh target).

If you are not restricted on sources, adding Booming Blade and GFB to your arsenal will help. Booming is probably most relevant, since it will help you be "sticky" - opponents are less likely to move away from you. As they are both cantrips, you can Shill and Blade (in that order) in the same turn. You can wait until 3rd to grab a blade cantrip with your tome, alongside shillelagh. If you need to conserve cantrip space early, forgo weapons altogether and just spam Sacred Flame in melee. It's Dex Save based, so there are no penalties for using with adjacent enemies.

If you are really going to spend most of your time in melee, you can discount EB focus - Pick one at most for your first invocations (Repelling is crazy utility). Likewise, Hex should be a later-game pickup - you'll only be landing one attack roll in melee, ever, and if you go the SF route, you won't be making any melee attack rolls. Use Armor of Agathys as your 'every fight' spell - you lack a the kill-heal or renewable thp of Hex or Fiend, and this gives you both defense and offense, as well as taking advantage of being at "modest" AC. If you don't have the space for it (known or for slot use), use that extra invocation from not loading up on Blast mechanics to grab Fiendish Vigor, so you have a thp buffer at the start of each fight.

If you prefer more violence in your offense, get yourself a minion - Flaming Sphere is a one-fight, save-for-half burning battle buddy. You get to bump one creature every round for damage, and enemies who remain adjacent at the end of their turns end up making rolls. Position behind an adjacent opponent and BB - they either stay and burn (save for half), or move and thunder. This also gives you something to do with your bonus action when you aren't dropping heal dice. You'll retire this for the Fire Giants, but bring it out again when Frost is in play. I would cast this as an either/or with AoA.

I'm pushing fire effects, since you get to add your Cha Mod to fire (and radiant) damage at 6. If you are feeling extra plucky, drop EB altogether, sacred flame as your opening option, dip a level of Sorcerer, and use firebolt as your primary ranged. It's good for everything except fire critters, where you can bust out your free radiant damage cantrip (giants have crappy Dex saves).

[CheddarChampion]

If you don't mind the level delay, Fighter or Paladin 1/2 are a good way to start out.
Fighter 1 gets you armor, shields, Con saves (good for concentration), defensive fighting style, and second wind. Action Surge at level 2.
Paladin 1 gets you armor, shields, lay on hands. Paladin 2 gets you two spell slots and divine smite.

V. Human would let you start with 14/10/14/10/10/16 for paladin/fighter or 10/14/14/10/10/16 for fighter. You could also get Crossbow Expert as your level 1 feat.

Half Elf could be good too: 16/10/14/10/10/16 or 10/16/14/10/10/16.

[CTurbo]

Before Hexblade existed, I play a Vhuman Fiend/Tome Warlock that took Moderately Armored at level 1 for a respectable AC of 17/18. I played it like a normal warlock, I just wasn't afraid of being in melee.

[Evaar]

Is there a way to build a tanky celestial warlock who is quite good in melee without having to use more than 1 feat?

See the top post, first build on this thread:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds

It is exactly what you describe.

[1Pirate]

The problem OP has with Ludic's build(which is AWESOME btw, had loads of fun playing with one), is that it requires 2 feats, Warcaster and Moderately Armored. The shield is going to gimp your V, S spells without Warcaster.

[cZak]

Currently using LucidSavant's Celestial Tomelock build @6th level
It doesn't really come on-line until level three when you get the cantrips to cover your bases, but once you get there... It's Golden

Play the character as a Controller/debuffer that primarily stands back and supports the group; Repelling blast, Thorn whip, Misty visions, etc... The dwarf EK & 1/2ling Storm herald enjoy when I knock/drag enemies back in their reach

But if something gets in my face? Half-plate & a shield is very respectable for AC. Shillelagh & Hex are a serious reminder that I am NOT a squish... When I add on Green flame blade, more. MORE, I say!

Thought of multiclassing Divine sorcerer (thematic) for campaign reasons, but the delays just seem too painful; @7? Level 4 spells (and this just continues..., @8? ASI
I'm almost convinced 'straight class Warlock' seems the way to go. The options you bring to the table are just SO damn handy. The spot light may not be on you, but you WILL be making significant contributions

*I may(…) take Agonizing blast at level 7, or 9... damage is just not required of me. The opportunities other Invocations present are just so much more; Book of Ancient secrets, Misty visions, Mask of many faces, Devil's sight, et al on & on

[1Pirate]

Yeah, I found I wanted to keep that build straight Warlock through(campaign only went to level 11 though). You'll want Celestial Resistance as soon as possible(not only do you get tankier, your tanks become even bigger tanks) and then 11 is your 3rd Spell slot which is a big deal.

[Derijh]

I liked LucidSavant's Celestial Tomelock enough to base a character around his outline. I deviated from it a bit, in that I started off as an Aasimar and never took the moderately armored feat.

I ended up keeping a low AC so that I could be hit each round. I used my actions to cast bladeward and movement to provoke as many attacks of oppurtunity as I could each round. This allowed me to zap all the bad guys with Armor of Agathys - worked better at late tier 2 and early tier 3 levels.

[athorod]

Thanks for your excellent replies.


If you are feeling extra plucky, drop EB altogether, sacred flame as your opening option, dip a level of Sorcerer, and use firebolt as your primary ranged. It's good for everything except fire critters, where you can bust out your free radiant damage cantrip (giants have crappy Dex saves).

Would I get anything more from dipping to sorcerer? I could get firebolt from my book cantrips?
Ie. take cantrips like:
1st: Eldritch blast+Booming Blade
3rd: shillelagh, firebolt, ?
4th: green-flame

[athorod]

The problem OP has with Ludic's build(which is AWESOME btw, had loads of fun playing with one), is that it requires 2 feats, Warcaster and Moderately Armored. The shield is going to gimp your V, S spells without Warcaster.

I am pretty sure you can double the arcane focus staff as a quarterstaff.

[Joe the Rat]

Would I get anything more from dipping to sorcerer? I could get firebolt from my book cantrips?
Ie. take cantrips like:
1st: Eldritch blast+Booming Blade
3rd: shillelagh, firebolt, ?
4th: green-flame

bunch more cantrips, a couple of daily 1st level spell slots, and a rider depending on your warlock flavor. The natural armor of a Dragon Sorcerer (13+Dex) is less important to your armored build, but the extra hit point, language, and "dragons are relatively good listeners" trait can be handy. But that's about getting firebolt a level early for an "avoid eldritch blast altogether" plan.

[1Pirate]

I am pretty sure you can double the arcane focus staff as a quarterstaff.

Requires DM fiat, but that still doesn't help with Verbal & Somatic only spells like Eldritch Blast.

[Kane0]

Would a dwarf be better for you if you’re looking for med armor prof?

[da newt]

Non-hexblade warlocks do not get shield proficiency.

With the DM's ruling that MC dips require 3 lvls and a mentor for the second class, many options are off the table.

V.Human w/ the Mod Armored (+1 DEX) feat is probably your best bet (w/ 14 DEX). At lvl 1 you should be able to afford scale mail and a shield for 18AC (or a chain shirt for 17AC and no stealth DISADV).

If you really want to be a tanky caster maybe there is a Cleric Domain that will make you happy?

[Willie the Duck]

My best idea right now is to take variant human with medium armor feat and 8-14-14-10-12-16 (standard array).
Just a reminder, Moderately Armored feat will net you another +1 Str or Dex to this.


Would a dwarf be better for you if you’re looking for med armor prof?
Hill dwarves get no specific benefit to medium armor, and Mountain dwarves are lacking a shield (making them a pretty marginal tank, and honestly making me think that the target concept is a 'semi-solid' 17 AC wizard or the like).


V.Human w/ the Mod Armored (+1 DEX) feat is probably your best bet (w/ 14 DEX). At lvl 1 you should be able to afford scale mail and a shield for 18AC (or a chain shirt for 17AC and no stealth DISADV).

Another option is a Goblin, which has good synergy with Booming Blade.


If you really want to be a tanky caster maybe there is a Cleric Domain that will make you happy?

The cleric is the intuitive option for tanky caster. War, Tempest, and Arcana being the options that seem the most logical to me for the OP's situation. I'm assuming, however, that they are wanting to play a warlock as their primary priority.

[da newt]

Goblin's BA disengage and hide are fun (especially on a skirmisher), but I'm not sure I'd classify that as 'tanky.'

Tortle maybe ...

A high DEX w/ armor of shadows and armor of agathys can work pretty well in melee (but I'd want a shield to tank).

Also, why can't you create a "goodie-two-shoes" hexblade warlock? Have the patron be a good weapon like a moonblade, and the PC has a good alignment or something...

[LudicSavant]

Currently using LucidSavant's Celestial Tomelock build @6th level
It doesn't really come on-line until level three when you get the cantrips to cover your bases, but once you get there... It's Golden

Play the character as a Controller/debuffer that primarily stands back and supports the group; Repelling blast, Thorn whip, Misty visions, etc... The dwarf EK & 1/2ling Storm herald enjoy when I knock/drag enemies back in their reach

But if something gets in my face? Half-plate & a shield is very respectable for AC. Shillelagh & Hex are a serious reminder that I am NOT a squish... When I add on Green flame blade, more. MORE, I say!

Thought of multiclassing Divine sorcerer (thematic) for campaign reasons, but the delays just seem too painful; @7? Level 4 spells (and this just continues..., @8? ASI
I'm almost convinced 'straight class Warlock' seems the way to go. The options you bring to the table are just SO damn handy. The spot light may not be on you, but you WILL be making significant contributions

*I may(…) take Agonizing blast at level 7, or 9... damage is just not required of me. The opportunities other Invocations present are just so much more; Book of Ancient secrets, Misty visions, Mask of many faces, Devil's sight, et al on & on


The problem OP has with Ludic's build(which is AWESOME btw, had loads of fun playing with one), is that it requires 2 feats, Warcaster and Moderately Armored. The shield is going to gimp your V, S spells without Warcaster.


See the top post, first build on this thread:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds

It is exactly what you describe.


I liked LucidSavant's Celestial Tomelock enough to base a character around his outline. I deviated from it a bit, in that I started off as an Aasimar and never took the moderately armored feat.

I ended up keeping a low AC so that I could be hit each round. I used my actions to cast bladeward and movement to provoke as many attacks of oppurtunity as I could each round. This allowed me to zap all the bad guys with Armor of Agathys - worked better at late tier 2 and early tier 3 levels.

I'm happy to see that so many people have been enjoying it!

[Throne12]

Does your DM allow UA because if you go pact of blade theres the Eldritch Armor invocation that say As an action, you can touch a suit of armor that isn’t being worn or carried by anyone and instantly don it, provided you aren’t wearing armor already. You are proficient with this suit of armor until it’s removed. So after killing an enemy with better armor you can just up grade.