advice for a good +1 weapon enhancement in 3.5 d&d

[the_tick_rules]

i'm trying to think of a good +1 to round off a melee weapon design I have. Currently I have +5 collision, wounding (yes I know some will say go +1 then use magic weapon spell, it's not happening). I'm having a hard time deciding on what to do with the remaining +1. I'm looking for something melee focused so I'm looking for something that makes the weapon hit harder or more often. I like psychokinetic which adds +1d4 force but I'm not the biggest fan of the standard action activation time, I'm trying to find something with no activation or at least swift. Desiccating is nice it adds +1d4 against anything alive or 1d8 against plants or something water-based like a water elemental.

[Aracor]

My personal favorite is Spell Storing, but you need to have a source to fill it. If you can get your friendly neighborhood sorcerer or wizard to fill it with Combust, that's a lot of damage that you can set off once per fight.

[Khedrac]

I am a fan of Sacred - but if you don't think you will be fighting undead or evil outsiders then its not worth it.

If you know what you will be fighting, then Bane is good.

Ghost Touch is a requirement for melee fighters, but I prefer to have that on a backup weapon (usually a polearm, as it's usually worth carrying one of them too) as it is a waste against most foes.
(On the other hand, the time I passed my ghost touch glaive to the party centaur and cast sheletered vitality on him was one of those times when the DM just skipped the entire section of the module which was full of ghosts...)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Magebane (CA) costs a +1, you get the Bane property (+2 higher enhancement, +2d6 damage) against any opponent with arcane spellcasting, or spell-like abilities from an arcane spell list. Which is a pretty hefty portion of the monsters you'll face, especially in the higher levels. This also allows you to overcome DR/Epic if it puts the enhancement bonus to +6 or higher.

Consider dropping Collision and getting Marrowcrushing (BoVD), it's a +3 and it makes the weapon do an additional 1 Con damage per hit, with no verbiage saying anything is immune like Wounding has.

Wrathful Healing (Enemies and Allies) costs a +3, and heals the wielder for half of all the damage dealt by the weapon. That's all the weapon's damage, not just the base dice, so sneak attack, power attack, anything that adds to your damage also makes it heal you for more when you hit.

Not an enhancement price, but OA has the Displacement ability for +100k which gives you continuous Displacement (as the spell) while wielding it. Anything that uses vision that doesn't have true seeing gets a 50% chance to miss you with every attack.

[the_tick_rules]

Magebane (CA) costs a +1, you get the Bane property (+2 higher enhancement, +2d6 damage) against any opponent with arcane spellcasting, or spell-like abilities from an arcane spell list. Which is a pretty hefty portion of the monsters you'll face, especially in the higher levels. This also allows you to overcome DR/Epic if it puts the enhancement bonus to +6 or higher.

Is that how it works? I'm familiar with bane and contemplating it but I didn't know if you combined a +5 weapon with a bane that would bypass epic. It does count as +7 I just never thought of it from that perspective.

[Troacctid]

Bloodfeeding can store charges each time it deals damage and release them to deal a chunk of extra damage on a hit. Vicious is a strong damage enhancer at +2d6 damage for only +1, and also combines well with bloodfeeder. Earthbound gives a +2 to attack and damage if both the wieder and the target are touching the ground. Whirling lets you use the weapon to make Whirlwind Attacks.

[eyebreaker7]

I might be missing something but what about just plain old acid or fire? Deals extra damage and is great when you run into trolls or something like them.

[Darrin]

Enfeebling (+1, Book of Exalted Deeds): 1d6+2 Str damage on a crit, no save, and the damage stacks.

Smoking (+1, Lords of Darkness): Provides a 20% miss chance on command, usually cheaper than a minor cloak of displacement.

Torturous (+1, Ghostwalk): Fort save DC 12 vs. 1 round of stun. It's a low DC, but it triggers on every hit, so there's no daily or use limit.

[the_tick_rules]

I might be missing something but what about just plain old acid or fire? Deals extra damage and is great when you run into trolls or something like them.

Don't those require a standard action to activate? Those work but I'm trying to find something that is continuous or at least a swift action.

[eyebreaker7]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but they are a normal thing. You can "turn it on/off" I think though.

[Troacctid]

Don't those require a standard action to activate? Those work but I'm trying to find something that is continuous or at least a swift action.
They can be toggled on or off as a standard action. Once they're on, they stay that way until you toggle them off again.

[eyebreaker7]

One thing I just thought of that might matter, do you have to "turn it off" when you sheath it?

[Kelb_Panthera]

I might be missing something but what about just plain old acid or fire? Deals extra damage and is great when you run into trolls or something like them.

Eh, if you're going that way, go for psycokinetic. It's only a d4 but nothing is resistant to it, to the best of my knowledge. You can always beat down the troll until he won't get up for a while and just set him on fire.

[Troacctid]

One thing I just thought of that might matter, do you have to "turn it off" when you sheath it?
I mean, if you think it would damage the sheath, sure? Otherwise I don't see any reason why it would be a problem.

[darkdragoon]

Dessicating is similarly 1d4 but very rarely resisted.

Magebane

[Firechanter]

If you have at least one Martial Discipline Stance, the Discipline property is fantastic. +1 price gives what, +3 To Hit?
Awesome because in 3.5 you can trade any amount of BAB for damage but attack bonuses are hard to come by.

[Vizzerdrix]

I am a huge fan of warning and eager. Sometimes it is better to go first instead of hitting harder.

Other fun options are Sudden Stunning, Vampric, and any of the enchantments that will get you an elemental.

[NotASpiderSwarm]

Currently I have +5 collision, wounding (yes I know some will say go +1 then use magic weapon spell, it's not happening).
Feel free to ignore this, but:

+1 with +4 bonuses isn't just better than +5 due to GMW. Yes, GMW makes the + irrelevant, but even in a party without that, bonuses are generally better than an additional +1 AB/+1 Dam. That's because enemy AC scales worse than your to-hit, so additional attack bonuses tend to give you no benefit, while even something like flaming, which is pretty bad, at least gives +3.5 damage. If you do need +AB for whatever reason, look into Aptitude from Tome of Battle. If you are always in a Devoted Spirit stance, a +1 Devoted Spirit Flaming Longsword is a +3 cost weapon with +4 to-hit and 1d6+1(4.5) bonus damage. A normal +3 weapon has only +3 to-hit and +3 bonus damage. Even if you don't have GMW, +5 is just not that good compared to the wild abilities you can get otherwise.

[Biggus]

There's a pretty thorough list here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?445736-Saving-from-WOTC-Forum-The-3-5-Weapon-Special-Abilities-thread). Lists them by usefulness also, although of course that's their opinion.

[Troacctid]

Feel free to ignore this, but:

+1 with +4 bonuses isn't just better than +5 due to GMW. Yes, GMW makes the + irrelevant, but even in a party without that, bonuses are generally better than an additional +1 AB/+1 Dam. That's because enemy AC scales worse than your to-hit, so additional attack bonuses tend to give you no benefit, while even something like flaming, which is pretty bad, at least gives +3.5 damage.
Your first attack is easy to hit with, but your iteratives are going to be at -5 and -10. They'll need the help.

[skunk3]

I would go with Magebane. For a +1 property it's easily one of the best. Yeah, it only is effective vs. certain enemies but it offers tremendous value.

[Firechanter]

I would go with Magebane. For a +1 property it's easily one of the best. Yeah, it only is effective vs. certain enemies but it offers tremendous value.

Yup. I'm generally very fond of Bane weapons, but the big draw of Magebane is that it procs exactly against the one type of enemy that you absolutely, positively, need to go down fast.

[Troacctid]

Yup. I'm generally very fond of Bane weapons, but the big draw of Magebane is that it procs exactly against the one type of enemy that you absolutely, positively, need to go down fast.
Wow, no respect for divine casters, huh?

[Firechanter]

XD
Yeah well, being servant of a god will always be second best to being a god.
;)

[the_tick_rules]

I would go with Magebane. For a +1 property it's easily one of the best. Yeah, it only is effective vs. certain enemies but it offers tremendous value.

I'm thinking between that and evil outsider bane. someone else said hey if you are facing someone epic the +5 weapon and +2 enhancement from the bane would equal +7 and allow that to bypass epic. I hadn't thought of that.

[Khedrac]

A thought, if you are not sure what to put into the last available + to make your weapon +10 equivalent then don't - there are better things to put on your weapon than that last +1 which would push it epic (over 200,000gp) with it.

Look over the list of fixed price enchantments, and start with:

Everbright (MIC, p34) +2,000gp
For some reason the linked list of abilities puts this at 1*, the lowest rating. It is, however, the cheapest way to make your weapon immune to corrosion and rust (which includes acid) making this the single most important ability to put on your weapon!

Spellblade (PGtF, p120) +6,000gp
- budget-price spell-storing

Sudden Stunning (DMGII, p261) +2,000gp
Push your Charisma and this quicly becomes broken in a lower-op game as the DC scales!

Sizing (MIC, p43) +5,000gp
If you think you will be changing size much

Hideaway (MIC, p36) +2,000gp
More a case of personal preference.

Yes, you can add all five of these abilities for 17,000gp - which is less than the increase fom +9 to +10 (19,000gp).

See the list Biggus linked for more.

[Firechanter]

That's very good advice. I always make sure to have some of these on my weapon, starting with Everbright unless the weapon is glassteel or something similar anyway.

Another excellent fixed-price pick is Spell-Eating (hope I got the name right), but that one's fine on armour spikes iirc.

[ericgrau]

I'm really surprised there aren't better +1 enhancements out there.

If the only other options are niche abilities and taking reduced damage to avoid resistance, then pick shocking or frost and be done with it. 1d6 that's resisted 5% of the time is better than 1d4 that's resisted 1% of the time. Even during that 5% it'll be far from ending your adventuring career due to the other +9 in enhancements on your weapon. Likewise bane and magebane are super hard passes. Unless your DM has clearly told you that a campaign will be mostly a specific type of foe, don't do it as it will be less damage on average. You need a minimum of 25% of a specific foe type just to break even. You're willing to sacrifice damage to overcome uncommon resistances but then want to add enhancements that are very commonly ignored? It makes no sense.

But surely there must be a +1 ability somewhere out there in 50 books that does better than 1d6 of damage on average? No? I agree spell storing is much better if you have a caster buddy. I agree torturous and similar abilities might be nice. Even if you need to fish for 1s on saves from the enemy, it could average out better than a little more damage.

I can understand why the_tick_rules might not want GMW. Most of all he said no, so don't push it. 2nd most of all it isn't always available. You need a caster buddy for that. Even if you have one, he may not want to do it, or he may want to use other buffs or other spells in general. Even if he has lots of spell slots or you give him expensive pearl(s) and a lesser rod of extend, too many buffs make you vulnerable to dispel. Often GMW is a good idea, but it's not so cut and dry. It isn't a free +1 to +4 that you're wasting by not putting your enhancements in abilities. It's the difference between +1 to +4 and whatever other buff you might get, which could be a pretty small difference or the other buff may even be better in certain situations. The party caster(s) should feel no obligation to provide GMW, not just because he can do whatever he wants, but even when he's trying to be a team player and simply wants to pick a different style. The real question then is do you want more damage per hit or do you want to hit more often. Maybe +4 and +6 in damage enhancements could be slightly better. But again, it's a minuscule difference if it's not worse. So who cares. GMW is not an essential correction for basic optimization. It's a nice small optional tip and nothing more, and a tip which is more relevant to tell to mages than to fighters who might not be able to get it. And I do mention it myself when suggesting spell lists, but it's just one small option.

[the_tick_rules]

I understand the efficiency of the greater magic weapon method but it does create a vulnerability of being dependent on a caster to do it for you if you can't cast it yourself, which the character design can't do. It does create a vulnerability to stuff like anti-magic fields or dispel. But a big reason is I just don't like the appearance. Everyone has to draw a line where legal cheese just doesn't feel right in theatrics. You look at the most powerful characters in the game they all have at least +4. Elminister has the magical power to have pretty much anything he wants and he uses a +5 weapon. Though to be fair I assume a part of it is making the characters not a chore to fight. I did a if it's not epic it's ok gear setup using the multiple enchantment rules from MIC. Dozens of abilities, you would need a chart to remember them all. Having enemies or allies as such would be tedious.

[Ramza00]

If you have at least one Martial Discipline Stance, the Discipline property is fantastic. +1 price gives what, +3 To Hit?
Awesome because in 3.5 you can trade any amount of BAB for damage but attack bonuses are hard to come by.

Oh nifty. It is amazing how you can know a book backwards and forwards to the point you feel like you mastered it.

Except you "really" forget about 20% of the book and the gems it may contain. I will see if I can get my DM to allow this for Pathfinder / Path of War.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong but they are a normal thing. You can "turn it on/off" I think though.

One thing I just thought of that might matter, do you have to "turn it off" when you sheath it?
So I am going to say that this type of rule following just saps the fun out of the game and I think the DM should ignore some rules in a way that I consider "streamlining."

But if you want to go technical. The damage maxes out at 1d6 and thus 6 damage correct? Thus if the item has a hardness of 6 would not take any hitpoint damage per the item. Thus you just need a sheathe which is hardness of 6.

Leather only has a hardness of 2 so it will not work, but any of the metals, bone or stone has a hardness of 6 or higher.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?300451-Compendium-of-Materials-Hardnesses-amp-HP!

Furthermore Races of Stone has dwarvencraft properties which increases the hardness of an item by 2 and hitpoints of 10. Dwarvencraft is effectively masterwork + that also stacks with any additional magic weapon enhancement. A dwarvencraft weapon costs 600 gp more than a standard weapon of its type. Dwarvencraft armor and shields cost 300 gp more than standard armor and shields.

Likewise the Spell Compendium (also in Deities and Demigods / Magic of Faerun / Eberron Campaign Setting, D&D means it is in the d20srd .) has a 6th level spell called Hardening. It is permanent with no material cost for the older versions of the spell while Spell Compendium gives it a material cost of 50 gp per 10 cubic feat / level (thus 50 gp.) While a 6th level spell is hard for a player to grab until lvl 11 to 20 it would be reasonable to expect if you go into a city there will be wizard crafters and one of the things they do even for "non magical weapon and armor" they will be crafting mundane items and then hardness boosting them and selling the improved item at a small profit.

Yadda, yadda, yadda the standard action to activate or deactivate after pulling the item from the sheath is a tax that should be streamline away for it just slows the game down and is less fun. If your DM insists on it, point out to her / him that there are material ways to answer said tax and for the sake of play just pay the extra money for Hardening or Dwarvencraft or carrying a "Heavy" sheath around and do not pay the extra actions for standard actions at the start of combat are useful.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Ghost Touch is a requirement for melee fighters, but I prefer to have that on a backup weapon (usually a polearm, as it's usually worth carrying one of them too) as it is a waste against most foes.Ghost touch is, indeed, a waste, and it's a waste for everyone. Just get a weapon crystal that grants ghost touch.

Also, it turns your weapon into a touch attack, so that +5 is most definitely a complete waste of money.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I understand the efficiency of the greater magic weapon method but it does create a vulnerability of being dependent on a caster to do it for you if you can't cast it yourself, which the character design can't do.

If you're not limited by books, and it seems like you're not, the tooth of leraje from Tome of Magic gives you a GMW effect that gives you the +5 once per day for 20 hours. It also happens to follow the formula for a 1/day item producing greater magic weapon at its caster level to the letter. Might see if your GM will allow you to acquire one or use it as precedent to create a custom item. I like a war mask.

Alternately, if you're psionic you can get a tatoo of metaphysical weapon with a capacitor and transducer per this article. (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031225a) Getting the power points to use it more than once in a while could prove tricky if manifester arrows rub you the wrong way or you're the only psionic character in the party without being an actual psionicist.

Worst case; there's always potions, expensive though that may be if you want to use them frequently.

If all of that fails and you don't have any ranks in UMD then you do indeed have no way to garner the effect without being a caster.



It does create a vulnerability to stuff like anti-magic fields or dispel.

Dispel; yes. AMF; no. That vulnerability already exists in your magic weapon no matter what.


But a big reason is I just don't like the appearance. Everyone has to draw a line where legal cheese just doesn't feel right in theatrics.

This one's not even cheese. It's just an alternate strategy. You don't have to do it if you feel like it's not your style but it's in no way taking advantage of fuzzy rules to garner an unintended effect.


You look at the most powerful characters in the game they all have at least +4. Elminister has the magical power to have pretty much anything he wants and he uses a +5 weapon.

The example characters of that sort were largely adapted from 2e characters. A lot of the other examples were made -very- quickly to the point that many that were created as examples of prestige classes aren't actually legal. Finally, they're created to match a certain baseline of mechanical competence rather than to be as powerful as the system will allow them to be so that they don't utterly and absolutely crush any PCs the DM may throw them at. They really shouldn't be taken as an example of how things -should- be done.


Though to be fair I assume a part of it is making the characters not a chore to fight. I did a if it's not epic it's ok gear setup using the multiple enchantment rules from MIC. Dozens of abilities, you would need a chart to remember them all. Having enemies or allies as such would be tedious.

Indeed. Now imagine trying to run an artificer to the limits of what the system allows.

Anyway, even if you don't use GMW, it's still better to have a myriad of special abilities rather than simply more enhancement bonus unless you're relying on lots and lots of attacks or normal use of power attack to do most of your damage so that either every swing matters or you need attack bonus to trade away. If you expect that your primary and haste granted attacks are the only ones that're gonna hit reliably then you really want those hits to -hurt-. You're better off with things like ghost touch, holy, blindsighted, etc that either let you target more reliably or improve damage or get past special defenses and so on.

The only real advantage to a +5 enhancement bonus is simplicity. There's no "if; then" aspect to it, there's no need to activate or deactivate, you don't have to worry about any resistances that you didn't already have to worry about anyway, etc. You just hit a bit more reliably and do a little more damage. I can see the appeal in that if you already have a whole host of other details you have to worry about.

[Troacctid]

But surely there must be a +1 ability somewhere out there in 50 books that does better than 1d6 of damage on average? No?
Sure there is. Vicious. 2d6 extra damage. Well, technically 3d6.

[Techwarrior]

technically 3d6.

Is there a good way to abuse the self harm aspect of that property? I have a terribly awesome idea for an NPC for my players to fight.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Is there a good way to abuse the self harm aspect of that property? I have a terribly awesome idea for an NPC for my players to fight.Have you been playing Nova Drift (https://isthereanydeal.com/game/novadrift/info/#/) by any chance?

Also, decent amounts of hardness (like, say, enhancing your unarmed strike with enhancement bonuses; also works well with the explosive ranged weapon property, if it's also got throwing) will block that brand of damage so it's a non-issue. Fast healing and regeneration heal it up pretty well, as well.

All in all, most of the +Xd6 weapon properties are handily replaced by a weapon crystal with several weapon crystal properties stacked on it (via the stacking rules in the MIC).

[Troacctid]

Is there a good way to abuse the self harm aspect of that property? I have a terribly awesome idea for an NPC for my players to fight.
It's a great combo with the bloodseeking property because you get a blood point for each living creature you damage, so it essentially charges twice as fast. Also combines well with the crusader's furious counterstrike ability and/or the Stone Power feat. Maybe Pain Mastery, although getting up to 50 damage is tough. Monster-wise, some of the ushemoi from MM5 power up when they take damage.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Is there a good way to abuse the self harm aspect of that property? I have a terribly awesome idea for an NPC for my players to fight.

Masochism spell from BoVD. Every 10 points of damage they take, they get another +1.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Add morphing and sizing?