3.5 grappler build warforged juggernaut bear warrior help

[lordfalco]

Hi all, first headups on my dyslexia.

So i need to make a character and was thinking of a grappler warfoged juggernaut bearwarrior but i am not sure on few things like last levels and feats. we start at lvl 12 and lvl pretty decently quick

The character is a spiked (one of the reasons for warforgd juggernaut enxt to all the amasing immunities etc) warforged that can transform is a spiked robotic bear

Stats is dice roll based so cannot give those. primary is str and con

I can use all dnd 3.5 official material, erratas are a msut. pf1 in discussion with dm
Needed feats for prc: adamanite body (must be taken at lvl1, needed for warforged juggernaut), power attack, improved bullrush

lvl1 barbarian sprit bear (compelte champion, for improved grab) trapkiller feat: adamanite body
lvl2 fighter(for bonus feat) feat: power attack
lvl3 barbarian feat: improved bullrush
lvl4 barbarian
lvl5 warforged juggernaut
lvl6 warforged juggernaut feat: extra rage
lvl7 bear warrior
lvl8 bear warrior
lvl9 bear warrior feat:?
lvl10 bear warrior
lvl11 bear warrior (second bear form)
lvl12 warforged juggernaut feat:?
lvl13 warforged juggernaut
lvl14 warforged juggernaut
lvl15 ? feat:?
lvl16 ?
lvl17 ?
lvl18 ? feat:?
lvl19 ?
lvl20 ?


so from lvl 9 onwards i dont know which feats and from lvl 15 im not sure of class. should i cotninue 5 levels bear warrior for bigger size bear? more barbarian? soemthing else?

how can i msotly improve my grappling now? i will do msot if not all in rage/bear form

i enver made a grpapler before, my party has a butload of magic but no tank. so with the ac and high ap from all lvls (except fighter, only a puny d10) i can tank and mostly take out an enemy caster, also this character sounds fun:)

Thank you for helping me:)

[Gorthawar]

Hi, like the idea a lot. Here are some of my thoughts.

1. Make sure you are on the same page as your DM concerning the rules of a warforged turning into a bear. Don't want any surprises.
2. Grapple is generally not that recommend. At higher levels the opponent either get too big and it takes a whole lot of optimising to keep up or they outright ignore it by virtue of freedom of movement. Even worse with heart of water available as a 3rd level spell that lasts all day.
3. Warforged Juggernaut requires a BaB of +5 to enter so you will need one more level before you can enter.
4. Bear Totem Barbarian from unearthed arcana level 5 gives an extra +4 on grapple checks. That might come in handy as a later level.
5. 3-4 levels of warshaper look pretty nice.
6. The Warforged Juggernaut gets a lot of boni on charging and bullrushes. You could focus on those more and just use your strength, size and the improved grab the bear form gives you for grapple and focus the rest of your build more on those alternative attack modes. Take lion barbarian to grab pounce, a second fighter level to get the dungeon crasher alternative class feature and the shocktrooper feat and you're set to dish out a lot of damage.
7. If you manage to grapple a wizard for example after your team dispelled his or her protection the mage slayer feat will be very good.
8. Getting some tome of battle classes into the build never hurts. There is a stance that deals construct damage on every successful grapple check and thicket of blades is brilliant for any tank. Also pairs very well with mage slayer.

Good luck.

[lordfalco]

Hi, like the idea a lot. Here are some of my thoughts.

1. Make sure you are on the same page as your DM concerning the rules of a warforged turning into a bear. Don't want any surprises.
2. Grapple is generally not that recommend. At higher levels the opponent either get too big and it takes a whole lot of optimising to keep up or they outright ignore it by virtue of freedom of movement. Even worse with heart of water available as a 3rd level spell that lasts all day.
3. Warforged Juggernaut requires a BaB of +5 to enter so you will need one more level before you can enter.
4. Bear Totem Barbarian from unearthed arcana level 5 gives an extra +4 on grapple checks. That might come in handy as a later level.
5. 3-4 levels of warshaper look pretty nice.
6. The Warforged Juggernaut gets a lot of boni on charging and bullrushes. You could focus on those more and just use your strength, size and the improved grab the bear form gives you for grapple and focus the rest of your build more on those alternative attack modes. Take lion barbarian to grab pounce, a second fighter level to get the dungeon crasher alternative class feature and the shocktrooper feat and you're set to dish out a lot of damage.
7. If you manage to grapple a wizard for example after your team dispelled his or her protection the mage slayer feat will be very good.
8. Getting some tome of battle classes into the build never hurts. There is a stance that deals construct damage on every successful grapple check and thicket of blades is brilliant for any tank. Also pairs very well with mage slayer.

Good luck.



point 1 we are. trough bear warrior i can be a metalic bear with spikes. sicne bear warrior bear form msotly gives direct stats and says attacks as bear of that size, so its not the druid wildshape in that sense.
for point 2. my dm is not so cheesy on enemies to have them always get those spells(big safe i guess for me), size is an issue hence maybe lvl 10 bear warrior for another size increase (huge instead of large bear, sadly 4 dead levels then)
3. thanks small miscalculation:)
4. ok thank you didnt knew that one ws different:)
5. hmmi need to look in that one, good suggestion:)
6. i on porpuse try to avoid the bullrush and msotly duingeoncrasher and lion totem, that kind of cheese the dm does not like (cause he played that before and knows how op it can be for non magic)
7 and 8, ok mage slayer feat, need to figure what book it is and the tome of battles i need to chekc better thank you for those advices to:)


Thank you for the advice, i will look into the feats and the stances etc:)

[liquidformat]

Mage Slayer is from complete arcane (also miniature handbook but that is older), you can also look at pierce magical concealment and pierce magical protection from the same book but they aren't as powerful.

I personally dislike bear warrior and even more so if you go beyond level 1 it just isn't worth the return in investment, primeval from frostburn though more costly to get into has much better class features.

Besides that you could look at frenzied berserker from complete warrior it does give some nice benefits and is quite cheap to enter. Also going Fist of the Forest from Complete Champion is another great choice, it gives you good increases to unarmed damage and con to ac. If you are going into FotF there is City Brawler from Dragon#349 pg92 gives you improved unarmed strike and two weapon fighting in exchange for proficiency with martial weapons, medium armor, and shields.

[ShurikVch]

Fierce Grappler PrC (Dragon #295): Great Grappler - 2nd-level CF - allow to grapple creatures who're two categories larger; and the only thing it would cost you is the Stunning Fist feat and 5 ranks in Escape Artist

If DM would allow to use 3.0 sources (and ignore 3.5 update), then Animal Lord (Bearlord) from Masters of the Wild is allow to take forms of firstly Black, Brown, and Polar Bears, then Dire Bear, and finally - Legendary Bear (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/legendaryAnimal.htm) unlimited times/day; also allow to summon 1d3 Bears 1/day (later - 2/day, even later - to summon Dire Bears); and that class even has divine spellcasting (1st-4th levels, unique list); also, prerequisite feats allow you to Turn and Rebuke Animals

[lordfalco]

3.0 sources that are updated we need to use updated verison. i do try to avoid magic spellcasting for the character sicne we have enough anyway and tis not a fully minmaxed campaign, going to see if i can find draogn amgazine number 295 but also need to ask, if its in the compendium its ok else i need to check with dm.

a frenzied berserker does not sound like he can grapple cause of frenzy means u attack.

[ShurikVch]

3.0 sources that are updated we need to use updated verison.
The problem with the 3.5 version of the class is WotC subjected it to "sledgehammer treatment": almost all worthwhile features were either removed altogether, or nerfed into uselessness
Granted, "as is" class could be a bit too powerful (Birdlord was a super-scout in any environment which include birds), but they even made Sharklord incapable to breath underwater! (What's it, "LandShark (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bulette.htm)lord"?)
I. e. 3.5 Animal Lord is not so much update of 3.0 PrC, as just a different class with the same name and vaguely similar theme



i do try to avoid magic spellcasting for the character sicne we have enough anyway and tis not a fully minmaxed campaign
Its spellcasting wasn't neither overly powerful, nor the main attraction point - just one more feature
Besides the Freedom of Movement, Lesser Restoration, and Cure spell line, there are very little especially useful spells - they're either low-level staples (like Alarm or Purify Food and Drink), or highly situational gimmicks (like Invisibility to Animals or Animal Growth)



a frenzied berserker does not sound like he can grapple cause of frenzy means u attack.
Grapple (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple) is a special attack; this special attack is still attack (you're rolling attack for grapple check); thus, by grappling, your PC is still attacking enemies

[Gorthawar]

I understand the apprehension towards a pouncing uebercharger. However, grappling is very binary at high optimisation levels as well. Things you can grapple have pretty much lost already and if you can't grapple there is potentially not much else you can do. Given that the bear form only get you to large (Even the dire bear at lvl 10 is just large) you can grapple creatures only up to huge size anyways. A quick look at the SRD shows that unless you want to grapple dragons for most monsters that size a check of +40ish should be sufficient. Assuming 15-16 starting strength (you're rolling after all) +3 levels, +4 item and +16 bear form that puts you at 38 strength with a +14 grapple bonus. So with BaB +12, Str +14, improved grapple +4, large size +4 you're not that far off.
If you take a level of ranger or the track feat which gives you another use of the survival skill you already use for trap finding you might qualify for nature's warrior which gives you another +4 and the valuable constrict mechanic you're almost there. The last couple of levels and feats you can use for some more flexibility in your build to go beyond just grappling.

[lordfalco]

looking at some of the feedback i think i go with the following:

lvl class feats notes
1 barbarian adamantium body complete champion bear totem and trapkiller (caus eof trapkiller no unearthed arcane bear totem)
2 fighter power attack for bonus feat
3 barbarian improved bullrush
4 barbarian trapkiller activates
5 barbarian 2nd rage
6 warforged juggernaut extra rage
7 warforged juggernaut
8 bear warrior first bear form
9 bear warrior mage slayer
10 bear warrior scent
11 bear warrior
12 bear warrior pierce magical protection large bear form
13 warblade allows for 3rd initator, 3 maneaveurs, wall of blade, action before though and mountain hammer(for a stone dragon requirment for stance) 1 stance, the constrict stance
14 warforged juggernaut
15 warforged juggernaut track I alrdy got scent and high survival, this can help the party I hope
16 warforged juggernaut
17 warshaper
18 warshaper ? Still open slot
19 warshaper
20 warshaper



this way i only got at lvl 18 a feat open but thats not a biggie i guess,




I. e. 3.5 Animal Lord is not so much update of 3.0 PrC, as just a different class with the same name and vaguely similar theme

things as this wont fly with dm, 3.5 supercedes 3.0 and is a no go to use 3.0
0
looking at items i wasthinking of weapon a Battlefist with smoking enchament (neasiated) and hopefull a greater anchoring. second has higher priority, can this be wildclasped in a way so i cna use the enchaments on my bear paw?

this way im grpaling, got some decent damage aswell with cc mostly vs spellcasters. the anti mage bear XD

the spieks etc can ofc get enchaments aswell for damage bonus.

[lordfalco]

(Even the dire bear at lvl 10 is just large)

i tohugh the dire bear made you huge.

[Gorthawar]

*snip*
12 bear warrior pierce magical protection large bear form
13 warblade allows for 3rd initator, 3 maneaveurs, wall of blade, action before though and mountain hammer(for a stone dragon requirment for stance) 1 stance, the constrict stance.
*snip*

Looks quite good. The first level of warblade only gives access to a level 1 stance even though you're initiator level 7 and qualify for level 4 maneuvers. There are 3 options I can think of.

A. Take the martial stance feat at lvl 15 and get the crushing weight of the mountain stance then.
B. Take the warblade level at lvl 5 which gives you lvl 2 maneuvers and then take the martial stance feat at lvl 12.
C. Take the track feat at lvl 12 and take a level of nature's warrior at lvl 13 to get serpents coil (+4 grapple and constrict)

The diamond mind maneuvers like action before thought are great but concentration is not a class skill for you and raging doesn't allow concentration anyways.

Whichever option you go with above I think a level in nature's warrior will be a better choice than warshaper level 4. Fast healing 2 doesn't seem that attractive at level 20 to me anymore.

Enjoy.

[lordfalco]

Looks quite good. The first level of warblade only gives access to a level 1 stance even though you're initiator level 7 and qualify for level 4 maneuvers. There are 3 options I can think of.

A. Take the martial stance feat at lvl 15 and get the crushing weight of the mountain stance then.
B. Take the warblade level at lvl 5 which gives you lvl 2 maneuvers and then take the martial stance feat at lvl 12.
C. Take the track feat at lvl 12 and take a level of nature's warrior at lvl 13 to get serpents coil (+4 grapple and constrict)

The diamond mind maneuvers like action before thought are great but concentration is not a class skill for you and raging doesn't allow concentration anyways.

Whichever option you go with above I think a level in nature's warrior will be a better choice than warshaper level 4. Fast healing 2 doesn't seem that attractive at level 20 to me anymore.

Enjoy.

damn i forgot of rage and cpncentration:( so 1 maneavior open, prob will be an iron heart then.
how come warblade only gets lvl 1 stance? i cannot find that at all:(

[Gorthawar]

It's the same for all three martial classes. The wording is something like you begin play with one level 1 stance. No ifs or buts. Of course if your table plays it differently all the better.

Edit: oh and iron heart surge is very good.