Rogue rapier + hand crossbow? Worth it???

[Zotharius]

Hi everyone!

So my conundrum is this. I've been brainstorming a Swashbuckler Rogue14 / BM Fighter6 starting at 16 Dex, (Really my only stat of relevance to this topic lol)

For the longest time ive wanted to make some kind of rogue using a rapier and a hand crossbow using Crossbow Expert. I've just always thought it looked cool. Thing is... after noticing how much bonus action economy is going on here I'm wondering if it's really worth the feat. Rather than crossbow expert, I could use a shield for that yummy AC, or use 2 melee weapons and take Dual Wielding for more AC(Breastplate and shield still only get me to 18 AC, which when my DM rolls enemy attacks.. is scary). I do really like being able to be ranged or melee as desired, but I figure I can use either a heavy crossbow or longbow for that and just trade out as needed.

Whats everyone's opinion on this? And If I trade out between melee and 2h ranged weapons, should I still take Sharpshooter?

[JackPhoenix]

Problem with hand crossbow is that you still need two hands to reload it. You may be better off with a dagger, which can be thrown (though at lower range and damge than the crossbow shot) or used in melee.

[Lavaeolus]

Be aware: RAW the hand crossbow is a one-handed weapon... and "you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon" (Ammunition property). A DM might let it slide, and the initial wording of Crossbow Expert kind of implies that you're meant to bonus attack after hitting someone with a sword -- but it doesn't work out that way in practice. If you hit someone with a rapier and then try to attack with your crossbow, you're just going to fail because you can't load the thing.

The loading property, what you get to ignore, solely imposes a restriction against attacking with a crossbow multiple times in an action, bonus action, etc. -- so Crossbow Expert is very useful for a Fighter or Ranger who wants to use a crossbow but would rather not lose Extra Attack, but the other limitations caused by requiring ammo remain.

There are ways around this? Again, if your DM is fine with it you can bypass this; I'd be willing to turn the other way if someone really wanted to play rapier+crossbow. Otherwise, though, you could dip into Artificer, or maybe your DM will allow you to sheathe the rapier before making the crossbow attack (which I'm not sure is strictly allowed but is something of a hassle either way).

Pretty unintuitively, the general way of using Crossbow Expert's BA attack is to take advantage that, hey -- an attack with a hand crossbow is also an "attack with a one-handed weapon", so you could theoretically make an extra shot with it during a turn.

[Chaos Jackal]

Unfortunately, RAW this doesn't work. Crossbow Expert has been clarified to remove "loading" as in the restriction in attacks per action, not the need to use a free hand to reload a crossbow. You can use it to rapidly fire that hand crossbow, but you can't actually act like a drow. Which is quite unfortunate.

As far as your bonus actions are concerned in general, however, remember that a swashbuckler doesn't need to use Cunning Action in order to disengage, as long as you hit something. You're less pressed for bonus actions than most rogues.