PDA

View Full Version : Saira's Guide to Dealing with Broken Characters



TheNerdQueen
2020-05-30, 09:25 AM
Hello everyone! Since I have made a guide on soft broken characters, and have played many myself, I thought I should make a guide on how to deal with broken characters!


Types of Broken Characters

Okay, so this is important. There are different types of broken characters. I'm not talking about soft and hard broken, though that is important. I'm talking about the players that play them. Not everyone breaks characters for the same reason. Everyone has heard, or even worse, played with those people who only care about the spotlight. Those annoyances that want to rush in combat, that want to overshadow everyone else. I'll call them the glory hounds. Although they are the most famous, glory hounds are not the only type of broken player (broken player means the person who plays a broken character). For example, there are people who see breaking characters as a puzzle, like me. For these people, making the characters themselves is fun, and is an exercise in skill and intelligence. These people aren't as hungry for the spotlight, and are usually more cooperative. Other people make broken characters because they don't like combat. For these people, characters that are really good at killing things make combat end quicker, allowing them to get to the parts they like better faster.


What does this mean?
This means that some of these players are more easily dealt with then others. For now, I shall separate these people into two categories: cooperative and uncooperative. Cooperative players are willing to work with the DM in order to fix some of the problems that their characters might cause, and try to fix them on their own. Uncooperative players don't do this, and instead will bask in their character's overpowered-ness.


Why does this matter?
Because this radically changes how you deal with them. Let's start with cooperative players. As counter intuitive as it seems, adding in more power might be a good idea. After all, cooperative does not mean that they are willing to abandon their character. Adding more power to the rest of the group, such as giving them magic items, may help to balance the power of the group so that the OP character doesn't always grab the spotlight. Beware of going too far in the other direction though. I'll give you an example. The most OP character I have ever made, and my favorite to play, is a seven to nine winged tiefling arcane trickster named Kiera. Now, this is one OP character. Non-concentration flight from level one, a familiar to give constant advantage, and an adorable appearance all add up to one creepy, yet effective character. She is so fun to roleplay. Now, she was also the most powerful of the group by far, as she is an excellent example of a soft broken character (I'll put a link to her character sheet if asked). Therefore, she was not an easy character to reign in. The second DM that I played this character with (with permission) was not very good with preparation and rules, but could weave up a good story. So, sometimes she didn't realize what she was doing. For example, one time she put in these crazy valuable things, sapphire dice and an ivory and jade chess set. Now, these things were worth a fortune, especially with the 4th level characters we were playing. Now, this might seem like a disaster waiting to happen, and I admit she could have planned this better. As I revealed my plan for the money, the buying of magic items, she personally asked me to not buy any OP magic items for myself. I am a cooperative player, so I agreed. By doing this, she inadvertently made it possible to balance out the power level of the group. Now, the adventure got cut short by COVID19, so we never saw the ramifications, but this is a good example. After all, DnD is all about having fun. It doesn't matter if the entire party is OP, as long as everyone is having fun. Note: this strategy works much better with hard broken characters then soft broken ones (please read my guide on that) because hard broken characters rely on stats. Soft broken ones don't. A soft broken character is broken because of the player's craftiness, not on the stats of their characters. It still helps, but the soft broken characters will probably still be a bit more powerful then the rest of the party because of this.


What if they are uncooperative?
Uncooperative broken players are a massive pain, just like any rogue that steals from other members of the party just because "I'm a rogue, its what I'm supposed to do" (Michael, stealing from the artificer will get you blown up one day, I swear it). Now, this is where you use the one true rule of broken characters: EVERY CHARACTER has a weakness. Yes, even that sorcerer with the 16 armor class. Yes, even that druid with the rodent army capable of blinding her enemies without being near them. Yes, even that sorcadin with the 23 armor class that can deal 100 damage in one round (at least, so I've heard). Every character, yes EVERY character has a weakness. The sorcerer against an archer with perfect aim, or against a tank in a small room will have serious trouble. The druid against a good AOE spell that gets rid of her animals just becomes a normal druid. The sorcadin against the spellcaster that has the height advantage, so that they can't hit him. It doesn't matter what the character is, every character has a weakness. Of course, a clever player will find a way to avoid these situations, but sometimes it can't be helped (for them at least). Although it might be cruel, exploiting a weak spot in a character or player is often effective. Conversely, every semi-well built character has a strength. Making an encounter where some of the other players in your party shine is also quite nice.


Still need help!
Here is an example problem: On PC is causing problems due to how OP they are. Let's call this player Bob, and his character Joe. First step: observe player behavior. Is this person trying to force everything onto their strong points, even if it is better to let someone else take control? If so, Bob might be a glory hound. Yaaay. Try to gauge how Bob would react to different solutions. Next, talk to him. Privately let him know that there is a problem. If he is willing to work with you on this, then he is cooperative, if not, he is uncooperative. After this, employ a strategy listed above, or a custom one. Every player is different.


Is there a problem?
This may be hard to believe, but sometimes OP characters aren't a huge problem. Let's talk flying races. First of all, if you can't handle flying, make sure that you won't be running any campaigns past 5th level. Next, any person that is playing a flying race will likely have a strength score of 8. Why? Simple, because flight is most useful on ranged attackers. Let me fully explain. A flying race means giving up certain things, like a feat, or special proficiencies. Take a look at the winged races. Right now, there are only two: the winged tiefling, and the aarakocra. I'm only counting races with permanat flight, so Aasimar are not included. Notice how none of them have an ability increase towards strength or constitution. The winged tiefling has either int and dex or cha and int. The Aarakocra has wis and dex. These are clearly meant for spellcasters and archers, the two main types of squishy characters. Characters with high strength scores are often melee fighters, as that is where strength based weapons are most effective. Flying won't do any good there. Now, why is this important? Because flying characters can't take other people with them. Essentially, they can't save the day by themselves. Use this to your advantage.

Another way to look at these characters is as more options. Sure, some problems and puzzles will be utterly ineffective against flying characters or the like, such as most problems involving deep pits, but these characters open up new puzzles and challenges. What if a flying character is blinded by something, and so another character has to direct them through an obstacle course? You didn't have that option before. What I'm saying is that not all OP characters are a bad thing, or a problem that has to be fixed. If you have any more suggestions or arguments, please list them in the comments!

Innate
2020-05-31, 06:08 AM
It's important to me personnel to find what I consider to be the optimal character build, and while I like to work in a few dips for multiclassing to do that (perhaps arguably that doesn't help out that often in 5e), I don't really care if I have great magical items during gameplay. I want my character's stats to be high not even so much for the benefits that provides during gameplay, but in that it makes my character feel more "special". After I put the build together, only then to I start to weave a history and personality for the character.

I think that GM's should ban players that actively work against their party members (or at least severely punish them through game play). This can apply even for situations where certain party members constantly overshadow other players (hello Planar entity that takes offense to the actions of such party member and decides to teach them a lesson). The entire purpose of the game for me is to develop a cooperative spirit among the players and if I had to downplay my character to do so I would.

However, I think that GM's can bend whatever rules they want to help accomplish this, and what your GM stated about not taking magic items can easily be woven into the gameplay (perhaps as an agreement the character makes with the Gods to avoid some type of horrible outcome). In my view, the easiest way to deal with repeatedly uncooperative players is to simply remove them from the group permanently - that's the best long term option for helping to ensure that everyone else maximizes the enjoyment that this game can provide.

Aside from the above though, I think that all characters should be encouraged to create the most OP characters that they want (according to the rules, and sometimes even just according to the GM's rules) and then this can be balanced out as required during game play.

BloodSnake'sCha
2020-05-31, 07:38 AM
I have to say that my groups work just like you described (we have no glory hounds).

The DM usually tell me and a few other not to break the game too much and sometime pot a limit.

I usually get almost non relevant magic items for my characters in this DM game and I am fine with it as I don't need them(I usually bring a controller type of a character, I prefer my allies buffed as much as possible).
Usually I control most of the battle as my friends hack and slash the enemies.

Another player also like to break characters, when I run a game with him playing I know I can count on him not breaking the game too hard even without asking him not to do so.


And BTW, I actually played a sorcdin with 23 AC and a 100 damage attack potential (I also added a 1 warlock(Hexblade) level and considered taking some bard(Whisper)).
I used my smite two time and played him from level 1 to 11.

I just made him broken for fun, I made a rule that he will only smite on a crit and with elven Accuracy and Hexblade curse I got only two crits from level 1-11(the dice didn't like him).
He also always got hited by crits(the dice really didn't like him).

This character became a gag in my group. He is Dirk the undieing paladin (Dirk the Paladin was his full name, very lawful). Because he needed 7 rounds in a boss battle with minions when he is stuck alone to drop down. The only time he rolled death saves.

MrStabby
2020-05-31, 12:31 PM
I dont think that magic items are a good way of managing the spotlight, not at all. It just means that the spotlight moves from one player to a magic item rather than from one character to another. Maybe it's just me, but I would prefer to feel that my character is awesome, rather than my character was lucky enough to find awesome loot.

I think a better way is adjusting the campaign composition such that all players are equally powerful. If one is dominating fights with fireball, adjust the relative number of fire resistant enemies. If one is doing massive damage with abilities like divine smite and overshadowing other players then add more chaff enemies to encounters or change enemies from being armoured to being tough.

Let someone be awesome for doing acid damage against the Sodium elementals for example rather that doing resisted fire damage or whatever.

BloodSnake'sCha
2020-05-31, 01:55 PM
I dont think that magic items are a good way of managing the spotlight, not at all. It just means that the spotlight moves from one player to a magic item rather than from one character to another. Maybe it's just me, but I would prefer to feel that my character is awesome, rather than my character was lucky enough to find awesome loot.

I think a better way is adjusting the campaign composition such that all players are equally powerful. If one is dominating fights with fireball, adjust the relative number of fire resistant enemies. If one is doing massive damage with abilities like divine smite and overshadowing other players then add more chaff enemies to encounters or change enemies from being armoured to being tough.

Let someone be awesome for doing acid damage against the Sodium elementals for example rather that doing resisted fire damage or whatever.

Isn't the item part of the character?
What is the legendary Smith without his name bearing hammer?
Half a man.
What is a knight without his named sword?
An insult to the enemy he fight without his named sword.
A mage without his staff?
Just a regular old man with a big name.

A tool can be famous and powerful, but what will happen if a regular guy will use the hammer, sword and staff from before?

They will not craft legendary stuff. They will not become the knight and will not become a mage.

The tools name and fame are highly connected to the users.
Your sword may be a big part of your power, your staff may be a better caster then you. But without you wielding them they worth noting.

The questions about may not be the perfect ones to deliver my point, they are just the best way I found to order my thinking process.
It is like the old question:
Who is the killer, the sword or the one who used it?

TheNerdQueen
2020-05-31, 01:58 PM
I dont think that magic items are a good way of managing the spotlight, not at all. It just means that the spotlight moves from one player to a magic item rather than from one character to another. Maybe it's just me, but I would prefer to feel that my character is awesome, rather than my character was lucky enough to find awesome loot.

I think a better way is adjusting the campaign composition such that all players are equally powerful. If one is dominating fights with fireball, adjust the relative number of fire resistant enemies. If one is doing massive damage with abilities like divine smite and overshadowing other players then add more chaff enemies to encounters or change enemies from being armoured to being tough.

Let someone be awesome for doing acid damage against the Sodium elementals for example rather that doing resisted fire damage or whatever.

Thats what the magic items thing is trying to accomplish. What I'm trying to say is that making the other characters as powerful as the problem character is a possible solution. Magic items just boost the power of everyone else. If the magic item doesn't do that job though, and just shifts the spotlight, then yes, that is not a good solution.

TheNerdQueen
2020-05-31, 02:01 PM
It's important to me personnel to find what I consider to be the optimal character build, and while I like to work in a few dips for multiclassing to do that (perhaps arguably that doesn't help out that often in 5e), I don't really care if I have great magical items during gameplay. I want my character's stats to be high not even so much for the benefits that provides during gameplay, but in that it makes my character feel more "special". After I put the build together, only then to I start to weave a history and personality for the character.

I think that GM's should ban players that actively work against their party members (or at least severely punish them through game play). This can apply even for situations where certain party members constantly overshadow other players (hello Planar entity that takes offense to the actions of such party member and decides to teach them a lesson). The entire purpose of the game for me is to develop a cooperative spirit among the players and if I had to downplay my character to do so I would.

However, I think that GM's can bend whatever rules they want to help accomplish this, and what your GM stated about not taking magic items can easily be woven into the gameplay (perhaps as an agreement the character makes with the Gods to avoid some type of horrible outcome). In my view, the easiest way to deal with repeatedly uncooperative players is to simply remove them from the group permanently - that's the best long term option for helping to ensure that everyone else maximizes the enjoyment that this game can provide.

Aside from the above though, I think that all characters should be encouraged to create the most OP characters that they want (according to the rules, and sometimes even just according to the GM's rules) and then this can be balanced out as required during game play.

Yes, players that actively work against the party should absolutely be banned if possible. However, sometimes you can't ban players. I don't know if adventure's league can ban players, for example. And I agree that all players should try to make the most OP characters they can for funsies. However, some people are better at it than others. This is if there is one player that is a problem because of their character. Everyone being OP is not an issue. One person being significantly more powerful than anyone else may be. *Cough* Mary Sue *Cough*

krazedkoi
2020-05-31, 04:19 PM
I’m grateful that you mostly discuss how to work *with* cooperative optimizers!

As a DM I am incredibly fortunate to have the players I have. They are all very good at building really strong characters, but are also the sorts of players who make bad choices because of RP reasons.
If someone is outshining the group, nobody complains when I level the playing field.

My methods are similar to yours
1. Use the environment to restrict the strongest character or benefit characters that have been so far overshadowed
2. Design encounter compositions in such a way that the strongest character has either a counter (someone who is a significant threat or otherwise nullifies whatever is their biggest advantage) or so that it allows other party members to do their thing
3. NPC or World interactions that make every player feel relevant and included.
4. Traps or challenges that highlight a specific skill or ability possessed by other party members. Sure that one guy is a combat monster and pretty good a “stuff” because he has good stats, but he’s a medium creature and that’s a very small crawl space!
5. Magic items - I don’t mind doing this. Usually I’ll give flavourful magic items to the majority of players and stronger, more “useful” items to the characters who feel the weakest in the current game state.

TheNerdQueen
2020-06-01, 08:49 AM
I’m grateful that you mostly discuss how to work *with* cooperative optimizers!

As a DM I am incredibly fortunate to have the players I have. They are all very good at building really strong characters, but are also the sorts of players who make bad choices because of RP reasons.
If someone is outshining the group, nobody complains when I level the playing field.

My methods are similar to yours
1. Use the environment to restrict the strongest character or benefit characters that have been so far overshadowed
2. Design encounter compositions in such a way that the strongest character has either a counter (someone who is a significant threat or otherwise nullifies whatever is their biggest advantage) or so that it allows other party members to do their thing
3. NPC or World interactions that make every player feel relevant and included.
4. Traps or challenges that highlight a specific skill or ability possessed by other party members. Sure that one guy is a combat monster and pretty good a “stuff” because he has good stats, but he’s a medium creature and that’s a very small crawl space!
5. Magic items - I don’t mind doing this. Usually I’ll give flavourful magic items to the majority of players and stronger, more “useful” items to the characters who feel the weakest in the current game state.
Thank you! I try my best! These are the exact methods I would recommend! The biggest issue it to make it seem that this was the plan all along, and that I'm not favoring any one player. But thats part of being a DM.