An old (Second edition) idea made new again. Gray Necromancy.

[Duke Malagigi]

In the spirit of my first thread on necromancy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=830680) I bring you a new topic for discussion, Gray Necromancy.

Gray Necromancy

Today we will be covering a branch of the necromantic arts known as Gray or Neutral Necromancy. Such spells cover every thing from autopsy magic to undead creation spells. For this purpose I have added a few spells to the arcane necromancy spell list and even developed one of my own. I have even modified some spells to fit the category better.

Arcane Gray Necromancy so far

0 level spells.
None

1st level spells.
Corpse Analysis
Necromancy (Gray)
Level: Clr 1, Drd 1, Sor/Wiz 1

Deathwatch
Necromancy (Gray)
Level: Clr 1, Drd 1, Sor/Wiz 1

2nd level spells.

Command Undead
Necromancy (Gray)
Level: Sor/Wiz 2

3rd level spells.

Speak with Dead
Necromancy (Gray)
Level: Cleric 3, Drd 3, Sor/Wiz 3

4th level spells.

Animate Dead
Necromancy (Gray)
Level: Clr 3, Death 3, Death Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 4

5th level spells.

None.

6th level spells.

Create Undead
Necromancy (Gray) [Evil]
Level: Clr 6, Death 6, Evil Death Drd 6, Evil 6, Sor/Wiz 6

7th level spells.

Control Undead
Necromancy (Gray)
Level: Sor/Wiz 7

8th level spells.

Create Greater Undead
Necromancy (Gray) [Evil]
Level: Clr 8, Death 8, Sor/Wiz 8

9th level spells.

Astral Projection
Necromancy (Gray)
Level: Clr 9, Sor/Wiz 9, Travel 9

Deathwatch
Necromancy (Gray)

Level: Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 30 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped emanation
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Using arcane power or that of your god, you can determine the condition of creatures near death within the spell’s range. You instantly know whether each creature within the area is dead, fragile (alive and wounded, with 3 or fewer hit points left), fighting off death (alive with 4 or more hit points), undead, or neither alive nor dead (such as a construct).

Deathwatch sees through any spell or ability that allows creatures to feign death.

Corpse Analysis
Necromancy (Gray)

Level: Clr 1, Drd 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 5 ft.
Target: One dead creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: none
Spell Resistance: No

Using hair, tissue or blood samples you can determine the precise cause and time of death of one individual. This spell also reveals the amount of force used by the assailant. It can also be used to determine how many times the victim was struck before death and find self defense wounds, if any exist.

Material Component: A drop of blood, a half square inch of skin or a single strand of hair. Neither prevents raise dead or resurrection.

Speak with Dead
Necromancy (Gray) [Language-Dependent]

Level: Clr 3, Drd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 10 ft.
Target: One dead creature
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: No

You grant the semblance of life and intellect to a corpse, allowing it to answer several questions that you put to it. You may ask one question per two caster levels. Unasked questions are wasted if the duration expires. The corpse’s knowledge is limited to what the creature knew during life, including the languages it spoke (if any). Answers are usually brief, cryptic, or repetitive. If the creature’s alignment was different from yours, the corpse gets a Will save to resist the spell as if it were alive.

If the corpse has been subject to speak with dead within the past week, the new spell fails. You can cast this spell on a corpse that has been deceased for any amount of time, but the body must be mostly intact to be able to respond. A damaged corpse may be able to give partial answers or partially correct answers, but it must at least have a mouth in order to speak at all.

This spell does not let you actually speak to the person (whose soul has departed). It instead draws on the imprinted knowledge stored in the corpse. The partially animated body retains the imprint of the soul that once inhabited it, and thus it can speak with all the knowledge that the creature had while alive. The corpse, however, cannot learn new information.

Indeed, it can’t even remember being questioned.

This spell does not affect a corpse that has been turned into an undead creature.


Okay people, what do you think so far?

[Duke Malagigi]

So is anyone else interested in this subject?

[Mewtarthio]

So, what is Gray Necromancy? How is it different from regular Necromancy?

[Maerok]

So, what is Gray Necromancy? How is it different from regular Necromancy?

Exactly! Gray = Obscure! :smallbiggrin: Mission accomplished. :smallcool:

[Duke Malagigi]

So, what is Gray Necromancy? How is it different from regular Necromancy?

Gray necromancy is necromancy that neither directly benefits the living, harms the living or damages the undead.

[YuanTi]

Its an interesting idea, what did 2nd Edition do with it?

An Idea I had is to raise a person from the dead as an intelligent (corpeal) type of undead, which completely remembers its previous life, and is the same person. But not evil Undead like a Vampire/Lich.

[Duke Malagigi]

Its an interesting idea, what did 2nd Edition do with it?

Mostly the same as mentioned in this thread but with one difference. White, Gray and Black necromancy had alignment tendancies. White tended to be Good, Gray necromancy tended to be Neutral and Black necromancy tended towards Evil. Also if a Good character cast animate dead one too many times they could eventually turn Neutral. Repeated casting of the same spell however, couldn't turn its user Evil by its self. You had to actually comit Evil acts to be an Evil necromancer in 2nd Edition. Animate dead on its own didn't count.


An Idea I had is to raise a person from the dead as an intelligent (corpeal) type of undead, which completely remembers its previous life, and is the same person. But not evil Undead like a Vampire/Lich.

That sounds interesting, if the subject is willing.

[Duke Malagigi]

This link (http://gctm.free.fr/add/necromant/dark%20art.html#Spell%20Selection%20for%20the%20Wi zard) will give you further insights on to the differences between White, Gray and Black necromancy in 2nd Edition.

[Duke Malagigi]

Examples of Gray Necromancy using role models.

Mrs. Gogol
Mrs. Cake
Herbert West
Orcus
The whole CSI team

[bosssmiley]

Gray necromancy is necromancy that neither directly benefits the living, harms the living or damages the undead.

So hardly D&D necromancy at all then? :smallconfused:

From your cited cited grey necromancers post it seems that the school you posit has more in common with D&D Divination than with the shamblydead D&D Necromancy we all know and love. Exception to your list (and a probable mis-inclusion): Orcus. The Big Red O is pure, old school 'flesh dessicating, agonised souls and skulls galore' Necromancy, he's no mere morally ambiguous scholar of the macabre.

Which sort of begs the question: why a new school? Just flavour up a dual-specialist non-evil Diviner/Necro PrC...

[puppyavenger]

I believe he means that grey necromancy is the summoning of undead.
and necromancy means divination so maybe 2 ed staid truer to it's etymology.

[Duke Malagigi]

So hardly D&D necromancy at all then? :smallconfused:

From your cited cited grey necromancers post it seems that the school you posit has more in common with D&D Divination than with the shamblydead D&D Necromancy we all know and love. Exception to your list (and a probable mis-inclusion): Orcus. The Big Red O is pure, old school 'flesh dessicating, agonised souls and skulls galore' Necromancy, he's no mere morally ambiguous scholar of the macabre.

Which sort of begs the question: why a new school? Just flavour up a dual-specialist non-evil Diviner/Necro PrC...

First I'm bringing back an old 2nd Edition idea. Second, Orcus both uses Gray and Black Necromancy, not just one of them.

[Duke Malagigi]

I believe he means that grey necromancy is the summoning of undead.
and necromancy means divination so maybe 2 ed staid truer to it's etymology.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Also in 1st Edition, there were no schools, only subtypes. They were abjuration, conjuration, divination, enchantment, evocation, illusion, necromantic, transmutation and possession. Guess which spell was under the last one.

[Sebastian]

So hardly D&D necromancy at all then? :smallconfused:


Hardly 3rd edition D&D necromancy maybe, but in 2nd edition necromancy, (like many other things) was more interesting that its 3rd edition cousin, it was the study and manipulation of life energy in general and it was not automatically evil, so while rare you could have a workable good necromancer. Also its spells were a little more varied then. The very few healing arcane spells in d&d for example were of the necromancy school.

[Duke Malagigi]

Hardly 3rd edition D&D necromancy maybe, but in 2nd edition necromancy, (like many other things) was more interesting that its 3rd edition cousin, it was the study and manipulation of life energy in general and it was not automatically evil, so while rare you could have a workable good necromancer. Also its spells were a little more varied then. The very few healing arcane spells in d&d for example were of the necromancy school.

As were all divine healing spells and reincarnate.