Help increasing CR of direwolf

[Snig]

Hey guys. Any wizards out there know how to properly increase the CR of beasts? I'd like to summon a CR2 direwolf with conjure animal, but I want to make sure it's balanced.

https://i.ibb.co/611Qbkc/Screenshot-20200531-151031-Chrome.jpg (https://ibb.co/CMMLvfp)

[JNAProductions]

Go to the DMG. Look at the building monsters section. Use that.

Alternatively, find a CR 2 monster similar to a Direwolf, and reskin.

Are you having any particular troubles building it?

[Snig]

Go to the DMG. Look at the building monsters section. Use that.

Alternatively, find a CR 2 monster similar to a Direwolf, and reskin.

Are you having any particular troubles building it?

I looked at the DMG but the hit points seemed way off on their chart. They list 71-85 for a cr1. Direwolf is cr1 with 37 hit points.

I thought about reskinning the allosaurus or sabre tooth tiger but I'd rather keep the iconic abilities and skills of the direwolf. I was thinking of just increasing its it die by one which would give it an extra 5 hit points and somehow increasing its damage? Maybe 3d8 instead of 2d8?

[Theodoric]

Yeah, the DMG's stats for CR calculation are way off. Here (http://blogofholding.com/?p=7283)'s a useful blog post to help you get proper CR-appropriate stats.

[Asisreo1]

The DMG's rules are actually extremely accurate for alot of monsters. Abilities and features boost defensive and offensive CR in ways you might not expect.

For example, the basic orc. Their HP is 15 which is far off from the chart but let's see how things stack up.

Defensively, the CR of orcs are 1/8. Their HP and AC fit exactly there.

Offensively, however, they are CR 2 because they have an effective average damage per round of 11 which puts them at CR 1 but their +5 bonus boosts them to CR 2.

When they take the average, that doesn't work as well with the fractional CR. They actually take the median of the list of CR's between the maximum and medium. This median is actually also the mean for integer CR, but it's different for rational numbers.

So with this formula, Orcs land in the CR 1/2 territory. CR is still an approximation and a exp value giver but you can at least rest assured the formula works with monsters in the monster manual.

[Asisreo1]

I looked at the DMG but the hit points seemed way off on their chart. They list 71-85 for a cr1. Direwolf is cr1 with 37 hit points.

Defensively, they're CR 1/4. But offensively, these puppies are WILD!

Their average DPR is 10 which lands them at CR 1 initially but they boost up to CR 3 offensively with their attack bonus! Apply the median and you get CR 1.

[JackPhoenix]

I looked at the DMG but the hit points seemed way off on their chart. They list 71-85 for a cr1. Direwolf is cr1 with 37 hit points.

Dire Wolf has defensive CR of 1/4 (37 hp and 14 AC) and offensive CR of 2 (10 average damage and effective +6 to hit thanks to Pack Tactics). That averages out to CR 1.


I thought about reskinning the allosaurus or sabre tooth tiger but I'd rather keep the iconic abilities and skills of the direwolf. I was thinking of just increasing its it die by one which would give it an extra 5 hit points and somehow increasing its damage? Maybe 3d8 instead of 2d8?

Let's see, Dire Wolf is squishy for its CR with average AC, doesn't have exceptional damage, but it's got good chance to hit. Bumping up Str will give it +1 to hit and damage, if you add another damage die it'll have +7 to hit and 15 average damage (it'll also increase the save for prone, which doesn't influence CR). That means OCR of 3. If you adjust defensive values to something closer to DCR 1... about double its HP, perhaps add a point of AC to bring its DCR to CR 2.... you'll have CR 2 Direr Wolf.

[HappyDaze]

Let's see, Dire Wolf is squishy for its CR with average AC, doesn't have exceptional damage, but it's got good chance to hit. Bumping up Str will give it +1 to hit and damage, if you add another damage die it'll have +7 to hit and 15 average damage (it'll also increase the save for prone, which doesn't influence CR). That means OCR of 3. If you adjust defensive values to something closer to DCR 1... about double its HP, perhaps add a point of AC to bring its DCR to CR 2.... you'll have CR 2 Direr Wolf.

And every Circle of the Moon Druid at Level 6 now has a new favorite form in the Direr Wolf. Just wait for Level 9 when you can go for the Direst Wolf!

[Snig]

Dire Wolf has defensive CR of 1/4 (37 hp and 14 AC) and offensive CR of 2 (10 average damage and effective +6 to hit thanks to Pack Tactics). That averages out to CR 1.



Let's see, Dire Wolf is squishy for its CR with average AC, doesn't have exceptional damage, but it's got good chance to hit. Bumping up Str will give it +1 to hit and damage, if you add another damage die it'll have +7 to hit and 15 average damage (it'll also increase the save for prone, which doesn't influence CR). That means OCR of 3. If you adjust defensive values to something closer to DCR 1... about double its HP, perhaps add a point of AC to bring its DCR to CR 2.... you'll have CR 2 Direr Wolf.

I appreciate your input. Could you maybe just clarify what exactly you would do to bring it to CR2? Are you saying just give it plus one AC and that should do the trick?

[Asisreo1]

I appreciate your input. Could you maybe just clarify what exactly you would do to bring it to CR2? Are you saying just give it plus one AC and that should do the trick?
I think giving it an extra battle feature would make it more interesting. Give it avoidance but only dex saves, that's roughly the same increase in effective AC, call it unnaturally speedy and that should be good.

You can also give it a harder bite or a multiattack claw but it's already punching above it's weight.

You don't want to just pump HP or AC on it as it just means the fight is the same but a longer slog.

[Snig]

I think giving it an extra battle feature would make it more interesting. Give it avoidance but only dex saves, that's roughly the same increase in effective AC, call it unnaturally speedy and that should be good.

You can also give it a harder bite or a multiattack claw but it's already punching above it's weight.

You don't want to just pump HP or AC on it as it just means the fight is the same but a longer slog.

I like the idea of avoidance. Just to clarify this is for my Shepherd Druid conjure animal spell. I want to limit it to 2 direwolves (story reasons and keep down on bodies on the field.). So cast as a level 3 spell I can summon two CR1 animals or one CR2. So I'd summon the two direwolves. Then cast as a level 5 spell, I can summon 4 direwolves (don't wanna do that) or two CR 2 beasts.

Comparing it to the allosaurus which is a CR2, had a +6 to hit for 2d10+4, and can has pounce, for 1d8+4 then do the 2d10+4 at advantage as a bonus action. Also it's got 51 HP.

[JackPhoenix]

I appreciate your input. Could you maybe just clarify what exactly you would do to bring it to CR2? Are you saying just give it plus one AC and that should do the trick?

I just did: Increase Strength and add one damage die to increase attack bonus to +6 and damage to 3d6+4, add 1 AC (either natural or Dex, doesn't really matter, though Dex increase has more implications which don't change CR) and about double its HP to bring it into the 71-85 bracket for CR 1. That would be 4 extra hit dice and +1 Con.

The resulting Direr Wolf will be tougher than other CR 2 animals, but with lower average damage. It retains its good attack bonus, and all the abilities it had. The DC for prone will also increase.

You can go for something squishier with higher damage, I guess, if you want to make it more similar to other animals... lower HP increase, either add second attack and retain the original damage, or bump up what it has by another die. I can't make the calculations now, though, to give you better numbers.


I think giving it an extra battle feature would make it more interesting. Give it avoidance but only dex saves, that's roughly the same increase in effective AC, call it unnaturally speedy and that should be good.

You can also give it a harder bite or a multiattack claw but it's already punching above it's weight.

You don't want to just pump HP or AC on it as it just means the fight is the same but a longer slog.

It's for a PC summon, so I wouldn't worry too much about it being tougher than average. Extra damage would be more of a problem in that case.

[Snig]

Here is what I had in mind, but I'm not sure how it stacks up..

- increase its HD by one, bringing it from 37hp to 43hp

- add an extra d8 to it's bite attack bringing it from 2d8 to 3d8.

- increase its strength by 1, bumping it's attack from +5 to +6, and +4 to damage vs +3. Also it's trip DC would go to 14.

Comparing it to the allosaurus giant boar, polar bear and saber-tooth tiger, it seems to be right in line.

Let me know what you think.

[EggKookoo]

- add an extra d8 to it's bite attack bringing it from 2d8 to 3d8.

That's d6, though, right?

You could consider giving him multiattack and let him make two bites, rather than increasing the damage from a given bite.

[Snig]

That's d6, though, right?

You could consider giving him multiattack and let him make two bites, rather than increasing the damage from a given bite.

Yes your right, it is a d6. I misread that.