Looking for some build advice.

[EndocrineBandit]

I havent played in a couple of years, and I'm a tad rusty on the contents of the books.. so im approaching the hive-mind for wisdom.

I want to build a bardsader, ecl 11, pretty much everything 3.5 is allowed, 3pp is a case by case basis.


Im looking at bard4 crusader 7 but nothing is set in stone, 28 point build and I'd like to use dfi to give extra sonic or force damage.

The campaign is taking place in Wa if that makes any difference.

[MicHag]

While having no experience with this kind of build, some random comment:

Divine Bard for Full Plate casting

Feat suggestions:
1- Extra Music/Melodic Casting, DFI
3- Song of the Heart
6- Song of the White Raven
9- Lingering Song

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Can you begin play with a level adjustment bought off (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm)?

To change the damage type of DFI you need to be a half-dragon or to have Draconic Heritage. That means either spending two feats to get Dragontouched and that, or taking one level of the Dragonblood Sorcerer racial substitution level. A level of Sorcerer isn't necessarily bad, you can get utility spells like Nerveskitter and Benign Transposition, and you can use wands of Sorcerer spells like Wraithstrike and Wings of Cover, so have a weapon with one or more wand chambers. If you can take two flaws having to spend two feats on that is less painful, but you'll probably still want to use a Sorcerer dip and spend those on other feats. If you can use Prestige Bard (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeBard) that may be a better route.

You can wear a mithral breastplate or take Battle Caster (CA) with mithral full plate, or use Divine Bard (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantDivineBard) . The Savage Bard variant further down that page is also highly recommended. A mithral buckler or light shield has no arcane spell failure chance, or you can dip a level of Spellsword (CW) to avoid it with a mithral heavy shield.

With Melodic Casting you'll never need to stop inspiring. You can stack DFI and non-DFI Inspire Courage with Lingering Song and/or a Harmonizing weapon (MIC), or just get Leadership for another Bard (make that one get DFI and dip Sorcerer and you do the non-DFI inspiration).

You definitely want the feat Song of the Heart (ECS), the spell Inspirational Boost (SC), and a Badge of Valor (MIC), plus Song of the White Raven of course. Wild Cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) is highly recommended, especially if you can get a Fleshraker dinosaur or maybe a cool mount (easier if you're small size). An Eternal Wand (MIC) of Hound of Doom (CW) is a cool item that's comparable to Drizzt's panther figurine.

[Gruftzwerg]

I havent played in a couple of years, and I'm a tad rusty on the contents of the books.. so im approaching the hive-mind for wisdom.

I want to build a bardsader, ecl 11, pretty much everything 3.5 is allowed, 3pp is a case by case basis.


Im looking at bard4 crusader 7 but nothing is set in stone, 28 point build and I'd like to use dfi to give extra sonic or force damage.


If the classes ain't set into stone, maybe I can inspire you with my El Mariachi build (see signature)?
He is also a musical combatant like the bardsader, but with a different approach (focus on crossbows, passive healing, assasination).
Maybe you'll find a few interesting ideas there.

[EndocrineBandit]

Probably wont be using much in the way of heavy armor, the bard is mostly for DFI really. Level adjustment buy off will be a thing and im aware that my early feats are going to be tied up. I will look at the mariachi build when I get off work later tonight im finishing up my lunch break right now. Meant to get back to people sooner but I forgot to click 'stay logged in'.

Anyways, I want to take advantage of the swift inspire courage with white raven maneuvers, and I will be acting as a support/tank which is why I was thinking bardsader.


We allow any spontaneous caster to apply for draconic heritage and not just sorcerer, so I'd like to avoid a single level dip in something if possible

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you want to max out Inspire Courage, you'll generally be using your swift action to cast Inspirational Boost, your standard action to start inspiring, and your immediate action (taking the next turn's swift action) to activate the Badge of Valor. Reducing the action to start inspiring to a swift action throws that off and will either exclude on of your +1's, or delay starting it for an extra round. Unless you can swing spending your move action to start inspiring instead of a swift action, but that's up to your DM and may set a bad precedent.

[EndocrineBandit]

Song of the white raven allows me to use inspire courage while using a white raven maneuver, so I'll have no issues getting it off

[PoeticallyPsyco]

For personal DPR, I've seen Two Weapon Fighting recommended in conjunction with Bardsader. Specifically, combining the Aura of Chaos stance (to make your dice explode if you roll max), two whips (for both 3x reach and small dice to take advantage of Aura of Chaos), and Oversized TWF to be able to wield a second whip in the first place. If you want to focus on support instead, Aura of Triumph provides some healing with each hit you get off, so TWF and whips is still probably your best bet for maximizing that.

More generally, the Music of Creation ACF lets you trade Inspire Competence for a bonus feat from a list that includes Song of the Heart, which is great for Inspire Courage/Dragonfire Inspiration. The other must-have feat is Words of Creation, which straight up doubles the total bonus of Inspire Courage.

[EndocrineBandit]

I'm not at all worried about person dpr, but if I were gonna use whips I'd rather get exotic weapon proficiency[nagaika] from savage species, light weapon and deals lethal damage, can do pretty much anything a whip can do unless it's that Indiana Jones prestige class, I cant recall the name of it. It's taking place in the orient, and I think I would rather just use a crossbow and discipline weapons, rather than investing more feats into weapons. Ita going to be a supporting tank, have enough heavy hitters on the team I'm just wanting to help them hit harder and be hit less often. Still wanting to build a bardsader, I'm just on the fence about feats, races, and the such. I dont want any potentially game breaking cheese such as what would come from the aura of chaos[that's the one that let's you roll another damage die on a roll of a 1 or something like that, yeah?] Because it would ruin the fun for everyone involved.

[EndocrineBandit]

After thought. If whips provoked aoo in threatened spaces that would be a really useful lockdown build. Something for me to keep in mind later.

[DrMartin]

Maybe you know of this build already, but one of my characters had this as their cohort and it was almost more fun to play than the main character itself (a psion shaper):

The A-Game Paladin (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?445134)

it requires a bit of setting things straight /talking with your GM fluff-and-mechanic wise but nothing major, and it is crazy fun. At level 11 you have just qualified for 3rd level spells so you are a singing knight with really good inspire courage and inspire greatness, that can cast haste and a bunch of other wizard spells. There is a bit of leeway in the build, feat wise, so maybe you could manage to squeeze in DFI as well

Also...




The campaign is taking place in Wa if that makes any difference.

What is Wa?

[EndocrineBandit]

Wa is the land of the Oriental Adventures.

[crankykobold]

As has been mentioned, to change the energy type of dfi you need draconic heritage. I recommend Amethyst btw. You can take one level of sorcerer, or the feat dragontouched to qualify. A route I would offer is one level of Dragon Fire Adept. It gives dragontouched as a bonus feat and several of the invocations are very useful. Magical insight for unlimited detect magic/identify, See the unseen for darkvision and see invisible, enduring exposure, or draconic knowledge if you want to use knowledge devotion. Also spamable breathweapon + entangling exhalation at low levels is super sweet.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I'm not at all worried about person dpr, but if I were gonna use whips I'd rather get exotic weapon proficiency[nagaika] from savage species, light weapon and deals lethal damage, can do pretty much anything a whip can do unless it's that Indiana Jones prestige class, I cant recall the name of it. It's taking place in the orient, and I think I would rather just use a crossbow and discipline weapons, rather than investing more feats into weapons. Ita going to be a supporting tank, have enough heavy hitters on the team I'm just wanting to help them hit harder and be hit less often. Still wanting to build a bardsader, I'm just on the fence about feats, races, and the such. I dont want any potentially game breaking cheese such as what would come from the aura of chaos[that's the one that let's you roll another damage die on a roll of a 1 or something like that, yeah?] Because it would ruin the fun for everyone involved.


After thought. If whips provoked aoo in threatened spaces that would be a really useful lockdown build. Something for me to keep in mind later.

The other main advantage of whips is that as a Bard you're already proficient in them. No need for a feat.