Psionics

[carrdrivesyou]

Is there a good Psionics class comparison thread anywhere? If not, can someone give me the run down?

[Prime32]

For 3.5e psionics. Entries marked with a * are by Dreamscarred Press - third-party, but accepted at many games.

Full manifesters (lv1-9 powers)

Psion: Psionic equivalent of wizard/sorcerer. Int-based, receives bonus feats, and learns more powers than any other class. Specialises in a school like a wizard does, but it just adds more powers to the list they can learn. There are some specialisation-specific ACFs though, like Egoists being able to pick up the changeling's Minor Change Shape ability.
Wilder: Cha-based manifester with the ability to boost their powers' strength beyond normal. Also better at physical combat than a Psion.
Ardent: Wis-based manifester that selects a number of mantles as it gains levels, which are sort of like cleric domains - granting an ability and adding powers to the list you can learn. The maximum level of powers it can learn is based on manifester level, not class level, which means it plays unusually well with multiclassing (as long as you take the Practiced Manifester feat).
Erudite: Psionic equivalent of wizard. Very poorly written, and potentially game-breaking (especially with the rule that lets them use wizard spells as if they were powers).
Society Mind*: Wis-based manifester that can link creatures together into a "Worldthought Network", which allows sharing single-target effects between multiple creatures. Doesn't have many powers known, but can change them each time it rests.
Worldthought Medic*: Variant of Society Mind that's more focused on healing.
Formbound Spiritist*: Unique shapeshifter that "collects" forms, and gains various upgrades when manifesting astral constructs. Int-based, with a small but changeable power list similar to Society Mind.
Formbound Surger*: Cha-based variant of Formbound Spiritist that gets the shapeshifting, plus some wilder and druid abilities.


Partial manifesters

Psychic Warrior: Exactly what it says on the tin. Gets half-speed fighter bonus feats, and up to lv6 psionic powers (Wis-based).
Divine Mind: The most forgettable psionic class. Gets limited manifesting plus some weak auras.
Lurk: Sneaky class that gets the ability to apply special effects to their sneak attack. Manifesting is Int-based. Related to the Ebon Saint prestige class (which can make sneak attacks that steal someone's shape or memories).
Psionic Rogue: Basically a rogue that's been nerfed slightly, then had some psionic extras added on. Worse manifesting than Lurk (only up to lv5 powers rather than lv6), but tends to be stronger than Lurk or standard Rogue overall. Int-based.
Marksman*: Full BAB ranged specialist with 5th-level powers (Wis-based).
Thoughtsinger*: Bard variant that gets powers instead of spells, and sings telepathically.
Psionic Ranger*: Ranger variant that gets powers instead of spells.


Not manifesters

Soulknife: The weakest psionic class. Most of its class features revolve around... owning a weapon. It's not even a great weapon. Psychic Warrior has an ACF for summoning a weapon which does the concept better. It does let you enter the Soulbow prestige class though, which is decent.
Psionic Artificer: Not really a class, just a ruling that Artificers can create psionic items.
Psithief: Not really a class, but the Spellthief has both an adaptation and a feat by this name. The first allows stealing psionic powers, the second allows stealing power points and using them to manifest your own powers.
Monk: There's a Dragon magazine article which adds some psionic feats to their list of bonus feats.

Kalashtar Monk: Racial substitution levels for the "free 1pp/level" psionic race, letting them spend power points for minor bonuses.
Enlightened Monk*: Slight monk upgrade. Gets the psionic subtype and a few power points, catfall in place of Slow Fall, and some extra fighting style options similar to the ones in UA (but with mechanics related to psionic focus or expending power points).

Wizard/Sorcerer: The mental pinnacle spell briefly turns you into a psion with five powers known (all of them related to attacking minds), similar to how Tenser's transformation turns you into a quasi-fighter.
Binder: The vestiges Abysm, Arete and The Triad (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070119a) all grant psionic abilities while bound.
Halo Knight*: Paladin/binder-ish class. Full BAB, can enchant their weapon, and gets some buffs which they can temporarily share with allies.

[Ramza00]

Dreamscarred Press Psionics
9th level

Wilder: 9th level plus Wild Surge that can increase your ML by 6 by Class Levels, and this is prior to items and favored class bonus. Low Power Knows.
Wilder: A natural talent with psionics who channels emotion to wield uncontrolled power.
Psion: 9th level powers and lots of powers known.
Psion: A master of the mind, a seeker of knowledge of psionics.
Tactican: 9th level powers known, but less than a psion.
Tactician: Joining allies together into a single cohesive unit, the tactician learns how to turn strategy into reality with his combination of combat expertise and coordinating ability.
Vitalist: 9th level powers known, very few powers known but collective and there are ways to get more powers known.
Vitalist: Masters of healing energy, the vitalist links his allies into a collective that can share healing across any boundary, instead of reserving it for only himself.

6th level

Cryptic: Seeing reality as merely a variety of patterns joined together, the cryptic is capable of finding anything hidden, while at the same time hiding herself away, even in plain view.
Dread: The dread is the living embodiment of fear, using that powerful emotion to incapacitate enemies and strengthen himself.
Highlord: There are those who are meant to serve, and those who are meant to rule. A highlord stands proudly as one of the latter, joining minds together in a powerful network driven by his will and goals above all else. His true power shows itself when fighting alongside his allies, but if deprived of followers, the highlord can still fight by invading the minds of his enemies and briefly bending them to his will.
Psychic Warrior: A soldier who combines psionic power with physical prowess.
Voyager: The voyager’s psionic abilities are uniquely tuned towards the flow of causality. Throughout time, her future, past, and parallel selves reach out and lend their aid to the present-day voyager.

4th level

Marksman: Combining mental power with thrown or ranged attacks, the marksman is a deadly wielder of ranged weapons.
Soulknife (High Psionics): A warrior who creates a unique weapon out of mental energy. (Editor's Note: The High Psionics Soulknife is intended for campaigns where psionics is more prominent or powerful, or for when you want to give a bit of a boost to the Soulknife. Consult your DM.)
Note there is a Soulknife "main" variant without 4th level powers known.

Psionic but does not know have Powers Known

Aegis: 6th Level maneuvers and also other things depending on the customizations you pick. Has psionic power points. Takes 2 customization points to make it a Path of War 6th level maneuver class, you get 3 customization points at level 1. Furthermore more customization points means more path of war maneuvers known.
Surrounded by a protective suit of ectoplasm, the aegis customizes his astral armor to suit his personal taste and the circumstances of the moment. Where a soulknife always has the right weapon for the job, the aegis is always protected from danger.
Zealot: 9th level maneuvers and psionic power points.
Zealot: The zealot is a leader and motivator on the battlefield. By binding their allies into a single collective, they can share the might of conviction and zeal to lead their allies to victory and ensure that they do not fall against even the toughest of foes.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A point of note: psicrystals (psionic familiar equivalents) are gotten by a feat. The only class that gets one for free is the erudite.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The Mind's Eye Archive (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/psi) adds quite a lot of content. The Expanded Classes parts 1-4 introduces a number of alternate class features which vary from mediocre to very interesting to one that's almost mandatory (Substitute Powers). Psionics of Incarnum has the way cool Soul Manifester. Most of the prestige classes introduced there, like the ones in the published books, are mostly mediocre to unplayable with a few that don't make your character significantly worse at doing psionics.

[Psyren]

Erudite: Psionic equivalent of wizard. Very poorly written, and potentially game-breaking (especially with the rule that lets them use wizard spells as if they were powers).


Erudites are full (1-9) rather than partial but you got the rest of it correct.

You could also add a "psionic ACFs" category where some base classes can take options that make them into partial manifesters - notably Binder and Incarnate. And then there are psionic prestige classes as well.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Likewise, Pathfinder's psionics offers archetypes to add elements of the system to core classes

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Most of the prestige classes introduced there, like the ones in the published books, are mostly mediocre to unplayable with a few that don't make your character significantly worse at doing psionics.Conversely, the 3.5 constructor is a must-have for basically anyone with astral constructs (sans level 10, which isn't that great), and the crystal master is pretty neat for some fun tricks, abilities, and immunities.

[daremetoidareyo]

The hidden talent soulknife (minds eye acf) is a manifester because it's a psionic class with a power it can manifest.

[Nifft]

Adding to the list of base classes above, the playable psionic PrCs which I've seen tried were:

Thrallherd (XPH)
Illithid Slayer (XPH)
Elocator (XPH) - not played as a primary caster

War Mind (XPH, own progression)
Fist of Zuokon (XPH, own progression)


Things which look like they could be decent:

Anarchic Initiate (Comp Psi)
Sanctified Mind (Lords of Madness)
Iron Mind (Races of Stone)
Cerebremancer (XPH) or Psychic Theurge (Web), especially the latter thanks to Ardent progression
Soul Manifester (Web)
Sangehirn (Web)
Constructor (Web)
Meditent (Web)
Psychic Weapons Master (Web)
Quori Mindhunter (Magic of Eberron)
Quori Nightmare (Races of Eberron)


That's about... a third, maybe? ... of the PrCs published.

[Prime32]

Erudites are full (1-9) rather than partial but you got the rest of it correct.
Fixed. Started with them all in one list, then missed Erudite when I went back and divided them.

[Psyren]

Adding to the list of base classes above, the playable psionic PrCs which I've seen tried were:

*snip*

To add to this - what I really find interesting is all the magic PrCs printed with psionic "Adaptation" sections. I think there's some hidden gems there, and being more or less WotC-sanctioned improves your chances of actually being able to play one even if they need to be reworked somewhat. Examples of these include Anima Mage, Mindbender, Holy Scourge, Daggerspell Mage and Magical Trickster.

[ShurikVch]

Soulknife: The weakest psionic class. Most of its class features revolve around... owning a weapon. It's not even a great weapon. Psychic Warrior has an ACF for summoning a weapon which does the concept better.
Often-overlooked fact: in the AMF/Dead magic/Null zone, where shiny toys of martial characters losing their magical properties, and mages are mostly useless (unless they're minionmancers, or CheatersInitiates of Mystra), SK still able to get their Mindblade with a DC 20 Will save (and Will is a "good save" for SK)



War Mind (XPH, own progression)
Fist of Zuokon (XPH, own progression)
For "own progression", there are also:
Zerth Cenobite (Comp Psi)
Psionic Assassin (Secrets of Sarlona) - also, their own power list (rather than usual PsyWar)


Notes about "racial" psionics:

Duergar, Githyanki, Githzerai, Half-Giant, and Thri-kreen are all get "racial classes" in the Complete Psionic

Dragon #319 has races for the Dark Sun campaign setting; many of them got "Inborn Power": 3 power points reserve and ability to manifest some power - even if they're not of psionic class (DC is Cha-based unless class which uses different key ability)
Aarakocras: Elfsight
Dwarves: Vigor
Elves: Conceal Thoughts
Half-Elves: Psionic Charm
Halflings: Missive
Muls: Offensive Prescience
Pterrans: Burst
Humans are special: they can choose any 1st-level power (from Psion/Wilder power list); furthermore, at 5th character level, Humans get 3 power points again, and able to pick any 2nd-level power (from the same list); at 10th level - 5 more pp and 3rd-level power; at 15th - 7 pp and 4th-level power
Note: most of those races are have LA +1 (Aarakocra and Pterran - +2)

Unbodied (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/unbodied.htm) manifests powers as a 4th-level psion (telepath)

Rather interesting is monstrous class for Mind Flayer in the Savage Species: on the last level, it gets Mind Blast, Plane Shift and Astral Projection at-will; if DM will allow to switch its Psi-Like Abilities to Telepath manifesting from "Mind Flayer, Psionic" (XPH)...

"Psionic Ulitharid" (LoM) is manifests powers as a psion (telepath) of 13th level and - technically - playable, but [epic] from the 0th level (12 HD and LA +9)

[StSword]

For the sake of completeness, I wanted to mention Dreamscarred Press's nonpathfinder psionic classes, which can be found here (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/base-classes).

Psychic monk, psychic ranger, the Halo Knight which is kind of like a psionic Binder in that they cloak themselves in archetypal forms, a psychic Bard type, a psychic shapeshifter class, and a shapeshifter/summoner class.

And precursers to some of their Pathfinder classes like Marksman and Dread.

[Nifft]

For the sake of completeness, I wanted to mention Dreamscarred Press's nonpathfinder psionic classes, which can be found here (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/base-classes).

Psychic monk, psychic ranger, the Halo Knight which is kind of like a psionic Binder in that they cloak themselves in archetypal forms, a psychic Bard type, a psychic shapeshifter class, and a shapeshifter/summoner class.

And precursers to some of their Pathfinder classes like Marksman and Dread.

Those look ... incomplete.

The Halo Knight sounded really cool, so I opened it up, and tried to figure out how it works. It gets power points but no powers known? ... and I can't find anything to explain how the avatars are supposed to scale wrt/ the number in parentheses (do you get more? do they each do more? both?), and there's only one Tertiary Avatar on that class feature's list.

The Morphean link on that list leads to an empty page, which asks me to write the damn thing.

After that I stopped looking.

[RSGA]

Those look ... incomplete.

The Halo Knight sounded really cool, so I opened it up, and tried to figure out how it works. It gets power points but no powers known? ... and I can't find anything to explain how the avatars are supposed to scale wrt/ the number in parentheses (do you get more? do they each do more? both?), and there's only one Tertiary Avatar on that class feature's list.

The Morphean link on that list leads to an empty page, which asks me to write the damn thing.

After that I stopped looking.

From a quick look, the main use of power points is to keep the Anima Flare, Avatar Surge, and Avatar Share class features going for more than one round. The advancement of the avatars is accidentally hidden in the end of the Weapon Master avatar expandable text, which is also where the secondary use of power points for the class is, regaining your avatars. After the first free assumption of an avatar, you need to spend power points to reassume it with your focus and the points determine the level or levels once you get into the class far enough to have more than one avatar.

[Nifft]

From a quick look, the main use of power points is to keep the Anima Flare, Avatar Surge, and Avatar Share class features going for more than one round. The advancement of the avatars is accidentally hidden in the end of the Weapon Master avatar expandable text, which is also where the secondary use of power points for the class is, regaining your avatars. After the first free assumption of an avatar, you need to spend power points to reassume it with your focus and the points determine the level or levels once you get into the class far enough to have more than one avatar.

Thanks, that answers some of the problems.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

For a weirder option, the 3.0 version of Soul Knife was a psionic prestige class that's actually pretty interesting.

[StSword]

Those look ... incomplete.

The Halo Knight sounded really cool, so I opened it up, and tried to figure out how it works. It gets power points but no powers known? ... and I can't find anything to explain how the avatars are supposed to scale wrt/ the number in parentheses (do you get more? do they each do more? both?), and there's only one Tertiary Avatar on that class feature's list.

The Morphean link on that list leads to an empty page, which asks me to write the damn thing.

After that I stopped looking.

Sorry you had such a rough time with the site.

The Morphean would be the pre-pathfinder version of the Dread, psionicists who use fear as a weapon, who have been mentioned in this thread before, and are on the Pathfinder srd if you are curious.

[Nifft]

For a weirder option, the 3.0 version of Soul Knife was a psionic prestige class that's actually pretty interesting. There's another even better PrC version in the (allegedly canon) Dark Sun 3.5e appendix (http://athas.org/products/PrC1/documents/39).

Full BAB, 2 good saves, +9 equivalent enhancement over 10 levels, good skill list... only 2+Int skill points per level, but otherwise it's significantly better than the 3.5e base class.

Not quite as good as the 3.0e "own progression" PrC which (kinda-sorta) advanced manifesting, and got +5d6 sneak attack over 10 levels, and allowed you to embed powers which removed the saving throw, but hey.


Sorry you had such a rough time with the site.

The Morphean would be the pre-pathfinder version of the Dread, psionicists who use fear as a weapon, who have been mentioned in this thread before, and are on the Pathfinder srd if you are curious.

Oh so that wasn't the shape-shifter class.

Well, no worries.

[StSword]

Oh so that wasn't the shape-shifter class.

Well, no worries.

My apologies, the Formbound Surger would be the psionic shapeshifter class.

Formbound is a type of power they made up which allows you to imprint a form kind of like Ben 10, although it doesn't allow one to duplicate manifesting, spellcasting, spell like, or psi-like abilities.

The Morphean would be named, I believe, based on the idea of being walking nightmares.

[nijineko]

what about the archpsion and the official prestige class verison of the soulknife or the sangehirn or erbaurer?

[Psyren]

what about the archpsion and the official prestige class verison of the soulknife or the sangehirn or erbaurer?

Biffonacius linked the Mind's Eye Archive which is where you can find all these, so they were covered in that respect. I will say that the first two are 3.0 rather than 3.5, though they shouldn't require too many changes to work in 3.5.

Another 3.0 psionic PrC from Mind's Eye that shouldn't take too much effort to convert is a little-known gem called the Planar Vanguard (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031219a), which is a 9/10 manifesting PrC that eventually transforms their psicrystal into a demiplane.

[Malphegor]

I'll throw into this thread that while the Erudite has a bad rep for being overpowered due to the potential it could learn, it's essentially equivalent to being a wizard with feats and prc selection to be spontaneous (Alacritous Cogitation, Spell Mastery, Mage of the Arcane Order, etc), and in actual play it's not really especially more powerful than that unless you actively try to break things, especially as a lot of tricks that wizard could use aren't useable on the psionics end.

Baseline Erudite- bit weaker than a wizard imo on account of psionics being a much smaller power selection than arcane spells' weighty weight of weightfulness. Convert Spell To Power Erudite nudges it a bit more powerful than a wizard, but if you're not that big into optimisation like me, it's perfectly valid to streamline a 'Boy Scout' always prepared wizard build to a STP Erudite.

(I'll also note that the spell learning mechanics are... Intimidating. So assuming you have a willing person to learn spells off (put an ad in the paper... Since psionics is relatively a rarity in most settings (which makes stp appealing to make you compatible) people aren't necessarily going to be keen on the 'weird wizard' getting within touch spell range of them to mind meld their spells out), if you fail your checks, you cannot learn that power or spell until you hit your next level. So if you need a power in a hurry early on, you're going to need to prepare. Put some soft music on, light some incense, get every bonus you can to the spellcraft and psicraft checks, as failure means a LONG time without that power in your posession.)

[nijineko]

Biffonacius linked the Mind's Eye Archive which is where you can find all these, so they were covered in that respect. I will say that the first two are 3.0 rather than 3.5, though they shouldn't require too many changes to work in 3.5.

Another 3.0 psionic PrC from Mind's Eye that shouldn't take too much effort to convert is a little-known gem called the Planar Vanguard (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031219a), which is a 9/10 manifesting PrC that eventually transforms their psicrystal into a demiplane.

The official prestige version of the soulknife is not in the Mind's Eye articles though....

[Psyren]

The official prestige version of the soulknife is not in the Mind's Eye articles though....

That's because it's in the 3.0 Psionics Handbook, which was superseded by the 3.5 XPH.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

That's because it's in the 3.0 Psionics Handbook, which was superseded by the 3.5 XPH.Unfortunately, it was also a significant downgrade in so many ways it's not even funny.

The only benefit I can see is that you don't have to qualify for it, so you can take it at level 1. That's...pretty much it.

Well, the prereqs are pretty wonky, so entering it is awkward. But still, it's generally better than the base class soulknife.

[nijineko]

That's because it's in the 3.0 Psionics Handbook, which was superseded by the 3.5 XPH.

Uh, no, wrong again.

The official 3.5 version of the soulknife prestige class is what I'm talking about here. Not anything 3.0. It's a significant upgrade as a matter of fact.

[Psyren]

Uh, no, wrong again.

The official 3.5 version of the soulknife prestige class is what I'm talking about here. Not anything 3.0. It's a significant upgrade as a matter of fact.

I'm not aware of an official 3.5 prestige soulknife, where is that?

[Nifft]

I'm not aware of an official 3.5 prestige soulknife, where is that?

It's from Athas (Dark Sun), and you can find it here: http://athas.org/products/PrC1/documents/39

[nijineko]

Mini-history lesson, for the benefit of all of GitP.

Back when 3.5 came out, WotC had an Other Worlds page on their site (on the internet archive if you want to check it out) which listed the Official Sites of 3.5 versions of campaign worlds they declined to do themselves. Most people mistakenly think these sites are 3rd party, but they are not.

The difference is that the license between these Official Sites for 3.5 is one of Co-Ownership, thus everything they produce is co-owned by WotC. No other 3rd Party company or group has this co-ownership clause in their license. Thus the Official Sites are in fact 1st party content as per WotC ownership. This unique Official Site license is still ongoing, and does not end unless a 3rd party licenses the specific setting (such as happened with Ravenloft when it was licensed by SSS, thus ending the special Official Site status and license for the Kargatane site), or unless WotC someday releases a statement cancelling the special 1st party status and Official Site License of the Official Sites.

***

Having covered all of that, the official co-owned site for Dark Sun, Athas.org has a prestige class version of the Soulknife that is not only official, but also 1st party as per their special license. It is found in the Prestige Class Appendix - Volume I of their books. (Thank you, Nifft, for the link!)

***

Interestingly enough, even though WotC released a 4th ed version of Dark Sun, they did not cancel the Official Site status of Athas (probably because the Official Site License is only valid for 3rd edition material).

[Psyren]

Mini-history lesson, for the benefit of all of GitP.

Back when 3.5 came out, WotC had an Other Worlds page on their site (on the internet archive if you want to check it out) which listed the Official Sites of 3.5 versions of campaign worlds they declined to do themselves. Most people mistakenly think these sites are 3rd party, but they are not.

The difference is that the license between these Official Sites for 3.5 is one of Co-Ownership, thus everything they produce is co-owned by WotC. No other 3rd Party company or group has this co-ownership clause in their license. Thus the Official Sites are in fact 1st party content as per WotC ownership. This unique Official Site license is still ongoing, and does not end unless a 3rd party licenses the specific setting (such as happened with Ravenloft when it was licensed by SSS, thus ending the special Official Site status and license for the Kargatane site), or unless WotC someday releases a statement cancelling the special 1st party status and Official Site License of the Official Sites.

***

Having covered all of that, the official co-owned site for Dark Sun, Athas.org has a prestige class version of the Soulknife that is not only official, but also 1st party as per their special license. It is found in the Prestige Class Appendix - Volume I of their books. (Thank you, Nifft, for the link!)



Yeah, even assuming this bit of minutiae is truly "official", it's a bit churlish to dismiss somebody with "wrong again" for not knowing about it. It's reasonable to say that WotC owning something that uses their IP and publishing it themselves are still two different things, because "1st-party" refers to the act of publishing rather than the passive state of ownership.

[nijineko]

Yeah, even assuming this bit of minutiae is truly "official", it's a bit churlish to dismiss somebody with "wrong again" for not knowing about it. It's reasonable to say that WotC owning something that uses their IP and publishing it themselves are still two different things, because "1st-party" refers to the act of publishing rather than the passive state of ownership.

I honestly hadn't thought of it that way. Did that come across as insulting or something? There's nothing bad about being wrong. It's a normal everyday part of life. People should be happy to be told they are wrong, because that means they might learn something new, and even if the person saying they are wrong is mistaken, it's a chance to learn a new viewpoint, so still valuable. That's long been my view.

In any case, if you perceived insult, I sincerely apologize for the unintended side-effect.

***

I rather disagree on your definition of 1st party - because most companies do not self-publish. 1st party would then mean that all WotC material is actually 1st party of the publisher, and not the authors, and at best WotC would be a 2nd-party to their own stuff, since they didn't actually publish it.

If various Hasbro employees can write WotC owned material under contract, and have yet another company publish it and it still be considered 1st party, then Athas must also be considered 1st party because they are writing WotC owned material under contract. Unlike 3rd party, where the 3rd party owns rights to publish the material (for the duration of the license) and the 1st (or 2nd) party cannot publish any material for the duration of the license.

The Official Sites clearly matches the same conditions as Hasbro/WotC employees, even if they are not getting money for it, and does not match the conditions of a 3rd party license, such as the license with SSS for Ravenloft. WotC was not permitted to publish Ravenloft 3.x material during the license, but they can do so with Dark Sun and Athas, because it is co-owned.

Thus, ownership is much more significant to the 1st party / 3 party status than previously implied, imo.

So, I would like to ask if you have some authoritative source for the definition of 1st party, please? I would be very interested if you can prove me wrong!!! =D

[Psyren]

It came across as dismissive, yes. Apology accepted.

The publisher is found on the copyright page inside your sourcebook - 1st-party books will say that they were published by Wizards of the Coast, while 3rd-party will say they are compatible with 3.5 (or whichever other game) but published by someone else, e.g. Hyperconscious being published for D&D 3.5 by a third-party publisher, Malhavoc press.

Defining it further than that involves invoking legalities and case law that are not allowed under the rules of this forum, so I'll stop there.

[nijineko]

It came across as dismissive, yes. Apology accepted.

The publisher is found on the copyright page inside your sourcebook - 1st-party books will say that they were published by Wizards of the Coast, while 3rd-party will say they are compatible with 3.5 (or whichever other game) but published by someone else, e.g. Hyperconscious being published for D&D 3.5 by a third-party publisher, Malhavoc press.

Defining it further than that involves invoking legalities and case law that are not allowed under the rules of this forum, so I'll stop there.

And the Athas core book says something in-between....

Interesting! I like your point, thank you.