Character build help

[jendar41]

Hi everyone. Longtime lurker, first post. I am an experienced 5e player about to start a new campaign. The campaign will be a modified west March style (just one group meeting regularly, but gritty realism rules, little focus on the central town, and a heavy focus on hexcrawl exploration).

I’ve kind of lost my muse on what type of character I want to play and am looking for suggestions or build ideas I haven’t thought about. In five years this is the first campaign where I have rolled an array that I can use better than the standard (we do one roll with the standard array as a fallback). My stats are 16, 16, 15, 15, 14, 7. Oddly, this has kind of paralyzed me cause I feel like I want to play something to take advantage of all the stats, but all the ones I can think of seem taken by others in the party.

The party consist of a rogue (swashbuckler), artificer (not sure what type), cleric (life domain), and paladin (oath of ancients).

Any thoughts? Warlock seems like it might fit well, but I’m a bit hesitant to EB 99% of the time, and a melee warlock seems out of place as it looks like we have a pretty crowded front line already. I don’t need the most OP build, and tend to really enjoy versatility more than power, though I do like having at least one thing that I am the “best” at in the group.

I welcome your suggestions and thoughts. Thanks!

[BloodSnake'sCha]

A monk can fit well with those stats.
So does barbarian.

Even a strength barbarian monk work will work well with the stats you rolled.

[jendar41]

A monk can fit well with those stats.
So does barbarian.

Even a strength barbarian monk work will work well with the stats you rolled.

True, and I’ve always been intrigued by a monk, but I am worried the group is lacking in arcane ability. Though I admit I have almost no familiarity with the artificier class, so I am not sure whether that fills the arcane gap in the party.

[Dork_Forge]

With stats like that some of the more MAD things come online, you could go for a naked Barbarian, some kind of Monk or a Gloomstalker Ranger. Another thing to consider is multiclass options, you could take the role of primary caster (presumably the life cleric will focus on buffing and healing and an Artificer doesn't get much casting done in a day)and mix together something like a Wizard and a Sorcerer (metamagic mixed with a big spell list/ritual casting/arcane recovery).

Your stats are good enough that you can choose whatever race interests you the most rather than by what stats you think you need, so if there's ever been a racial ability you thought was neat or you have a race to check off your list, now's the time!

[da newt]

YuanTi Bard
Hobgoblin Wizard (Iron Wizard - Ludic's build)
Gnome Druid
Bugbear Monk

With that party composition and those stats, you are free to do anything, but counterspell/dispell magic/teleport and AoE will probably be the most beneficial for the team.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Lore Bard, Str and Dex 15 and 16 depending on race, Con 15, Int 7, Wis 14, Cha 16, plan to take Resilient (Con). Go with something like a Tiefling (preferably winged) for Int +1, Cha +2, or Yuan-Ti Pureblood for Int +1, Cha +2, or a Half-Elf for Str or Dex +1, Int +1, Cha +2, or Satyr for Dex +1, Cha +2, or anything else that gets +2 Cha and +1 to one of your odd-numbered stats. Pick a background that looks cool and gets skills you want.

[RingoBongo]

Here's one idea: half elf glamour bard

Pushes Charisma to 18 and evens out those 15s. I'd dump strength unless you're playing with variant encumbrance rules, then I'd probably reconsider.

And their level 3 ability is pretty neat in being able to help move allies into more advantageous positions. Lore bard is also pretty cool with cutting words. Each provides a way for you to find an avenue of being good at a thing without stepping on another's toes.

Other option:

With those stats you could also get away with pretty much anything, even some different/ interesting multiclass builds. Since you said your parties frontline is full up, I'd look into a caster (or multiple caster classes). If multiclassing casters, I think a little dip 1-2 in cleric for heavy armor and access to bless would be quite handy and it wouldn't delay spell slots progression. Also, a little divine dip is an interesting flavor to give a character... Like their favored by the gods but religion doesn't necessarily plays a big role in their life pursuits.

[Keravath]

With gritty realism, you will want options that will do damage without consuming spell slots so that at least some of the encounters will allow you to conserve spell slots.

You could face an entire week of encounters before getting a long rest. Short rest resources will come back overnight.

If you want a wizard option then ...
1 knowledge cleric / X evoker wizard can work well (or any other wizard but evokers are cool).

If you want a short rest option with single target damage
Battlemaster fighter with Xbow expert and sharpshooter - add a couple levels of warlock for devils sight if you are variant human and want to see in the dark

Another short rest option
X shadow monk/2 or 3 warlock (warlock is optional but devils sight goes well with darkness and you have the stats to support it - human variant and pick up mobile is one option)


Pure warlock will only have 2 spell slots/day up to level 10 ... which makes them a very limited arcane support class. Wizards will have more spell slots but will have to ration them.

With your stats, unusual options like wizard/warlock open up too.

You could also go with something like bladesinger wizard with a dash of rogue thrown in for a very mobile casting type with some melee ability probably using shadow blade if in dim light/darkness.

Sorlock would also be an option - hexblade+ sorcerer of choice.

2 hexblade + bard would also be an option - for the grim reality long rests - agonizing blast might come in very handy.

[jendar41]

With gritty realism, you will want options that will do damage without consuming spell slots so that at least some of the encounters will allow you to conserve spell slots.

You could face an entire week of encounters before getting a long rest. Short rest resources will come back overnight.


That is my thinking behind warlock, as I’ll get 2 spells every day versus having to ration. But spamming EB seems boring. Every unique warlock build I’ve thought of in the past involves melee, which I guess I could still do while keeping EB for whenever I can’t get close enough. Is there a good way to make an archer warlock build that outdamages EB? I don’t need to be OP, but don’t want to waste feats just to deal less damage.

What about an archer wizard or a wizard whose cantrips equal the damage an archer can bring to the table. I’ve always wanted to play an archer type character and this is the first campaign where another character is not playing one. I’d do ranger otherwise but again think the group needs some arcane power.

Also thinking maybe a mountain dwarf abjuration wizard would be fun with the blade cantrips.

[jendar41]

Lore Bard, Str and Dex 15 and 16 depending on race, Con 15, Int 7, Wis 14, Cha 16, plan to take Resilient (Con). Go with something like a Tiefling (preferably winged) for Int +1, Cha +2, or Yuan-Ti Pureblood for Int +1, Cha +2, or a Half-Elf for Str or Dex +1, Int +1, Cha +2, or Satyr for Dex +1, Cha +2, or anything else that gets +2 Cha and +1 to one of your odd-numbered stats. Pick a background that looks cool and gets skills you want.

I played a lore bard in the last campaign to level 8 and loved it. Had thought about it again, but am worried won’t have enough spells with gritty realism and no good regular action ability. Is there a way to make a good melee or archer lore bard with my stats, or would I have to go valor?

[RingoBongo]

Is there a way to make a good melee or archer lore bard with my stats, or would I have to go valor?

Swords bard can use bow for their flourishes... And you get them back on short rest at 5. At that point they are very similar to a battle master fighter, just with very specific "maneuvers"

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I completely overlooked the gritty realism part. In that case I'll strongly suggest Celestial Warlock, since otherwise all your healing is per-long-rest. Get Fiendish Vigor and between encounters you can spam it until you roll max. Get Book of Ancient Secrets so you can ritual cast utility spells when needed, be sure to get Spare the Dying as one of your book's cantrips. Go Half-Elf for Str 15, Dex 15+1, Con 16, Int 7+1, Wis 14, Cha 16+2. Plan to take Inspiring Leader at 4th level, and once you have Celestial Resistance you can still use Inspiring Leader after a fight to refresh everyone's temp hp instead of resting.


I played a lore bard in the last campaign to level 8 and loved it. Had thought about it again, but am worried won’t have enough spells with gritty realism and no good regular action ability. Is there a way to make a good melee or archer lore bard with my stats, or would I have to go valor?

Maybe dip Warlock 2 (take Bard at 1st for the skills), to use Eldritch Blast and have two short rest spell slots.

[CTurbo]

Half Elf gets you either 16 Str, 16 Dex, 16 Con, 7 Int, 16 Wis, 16 Cha or 16 Str, 16 Dex, 16 Con, 7 Int, 14 Wis, 18 Cha

I could see something fun like a Zealot Barb with some Bard or Warlock levels or just take a couple of Barb levels and be a Bard or Warlock

2 levels of Monk or Barb for unarmed defense would be fun to add to any caster build.

or you could min max the stats and make a Mountain Dwarf Barb with 18 Str, 15 Dex, 18 Con, 7 Int, 15 Wis, 14 Cha



So many fun possibilities here. You could literally multiclass anything together here like Monk/Paladin. It's also a good opportunity to play a heavy armor caster.

Deep Gnome Abjurer with a level of Forge/Nature/Tempest Cleric for heavy armor. 15 Str, 16 Dex, 16 Con, 18 Int, 14 Wis, 7 Cha


I would have trouble picking BECAUSE there are too many options lol. The last time I had a spread like that I did make a Zealot Barb with some Lore Bard levels and a Long Death Monk with some Warlock levels.

[Keravath]

That is my thinking behind warlock, as I’ll get 2 spells every day versus having to ration. But spamming EB seems boring. Every unique warlock build I’ve thought of in the past involves melee, which I guess I could still do while keeping EB for whenever I can’t get close enough. Is there a good way to make an archer warlock build that outdamages EB? I don’t need to be OP, but don’t want to waste feats just to deal less damage.

What about an archer wizard or a wizard whose cantrips equal the damage an archer can bring to the table. I’ve always wanted to play an archer type character and this is the first campaign where another character is not playing one. I’d do ranger otherwise but again think the group needs some arcane power.

Also thinking maybe a mountain dwarf abjuration wizard would be fun with the blade cantrips.

A hexblade melee (GWM/Polearm Master) or hexblade archer (Xbow Expert/SS) will outdamage Agoinizing blast. You might want a level of fighter in the latter case for the archery fighting style. However, without the feats, it is very hard to keep up with Agonizing blast since it is a decent baseline that goes to three attacks at level 11 and four at 17. However, when you pick up lifedrinker at 12 this tends to help compensate.

You can use a hand crossbow with hexwarrior (cha to attack/dam) but you can't create one with improved pact weapon. This is a problem because Thirsting blade only gives you an extra attack with your pact weapon. Unless your DM house rules it, you would have to choose a hand crossbow and bond with it to make it your pact weapon before Thirsting blade would apply.

Melee hexblades don't have that problem.

You would also likely want constitution saving throw proficiency in order to help maintain concentration on spells when you are hit. Both of these builds tend to be single target damage dealers rather than arcane support. However, one thing to consider is whether bow spam or glaive spam are really any different from EB spam? You roll a d20 to hit, you roll your damage, EVERY class that relies on attacks follows the same process whether it is EB, a bow or a sword ... so I am not sure why folks find it less boring to roll a d20 for a bow than for EB.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Maybe you don't need spells at all? Go Fighter with Arcane Archer, use goblin so you can hide as a bonus action and attack with advantage, Str 16, Dex 16+2, Con 15+1, Int 7, Wis 15, Cha 14, plan to get Shapshooter and Resilient (Wis).

[Sorlock Master]

Hi everyone. Longtime lurker, first post. I am an experienced 5e player about to start a new campaign. The campaign will be a modified west March style (just one group meeting regularly, but gritty realism rules, little focus on the central town, and a heavy focus on hexcrawl exploration).

I’ve kind of lost my muse on what type of character I want to play and am looking for suggestions or build ideas I haven’t thought about. In five years this is the first campaign where I have rolled an array that I can use better than the standard (we do one roll with the standard array as a fallback). My stats are 16, 16, 15, 15, 14, 7. Oddly, this has kind of paralyzed me cause I feel like I want to play something to take advantage of all the stats, but all the ones I can think of seem taken by others in the party.

The party consist of a rogue (swashbuckler), artificer (not sure what type), cleric (life domain), and paladin (oath of ancients).

Any thoughts? Warlock seems like it might fit well, but I’m a bit hesitant to EB 99% of the time, and a melee warlock seems out of place as it looks like we have a pretty crowded front line already. I don’t need the most OP build, and tend to really enjoy versatility more than power, though I do like having at least one thing that I am the “best” at in the group.

I welcome your suggestions and thoughts. Thanks!

Gritty realism? Hex crawl?

Ranger is a good pick.

Of course you could always go with a fun pick. Like... Owl Bear Man.

[Hal]

I'm currently running a hexcrawl exploration campaign. If the game is going to focus heavily on the wilderness exploration part, you might find you'll get a lot of mileage out of either a Ranger or a Druid. A lot of people complain about the Ranger's class features, but if you're spending a lot of time in the wilderness, they really do shine.

Druid won't have the same exploratory benefits, but their spellcasting makes up for it, along with wildshape scouting. If you're worried about healing due to the Gritty Realism elements, the Circle of Dreams will give you some backup in that regard as well.

[jendar41]

However, one thing to consider is whether bow spam or glaive spam are really any different from EB spam? You roll a d20 to hit, you roll your damage, EVERY class that relies on attacks follows the same process whether it is EB, a bow or a sword ... so I am not sure why folks find it less boring to roll a d20 for a bow than for EB.

You know that is a good point. Thinking further it is probably not so much the “spamming” issue but more of a been there, seen that issue. I’ve played with warlocks and we had one in a past campaign, so I’d rather bring a unique angle. A melee (celestial tomelock maybe for rituals too) with EB as a backup would at least be a new angle for our group, as would a bladelock archer.

[jendar41]

I'm currently running a hexcrawl exploration campaign. If the game is going to focus heavily on the wilderness exploration part, you might find you'll get a lot of mileage out of either a Ranger or a Druid. A lot of people complain about the Ranger's class features, but if you're spending a lot of time in the wilderness, they really do shine.

Druid won't have the same exploratory benefits, but their spellcasting makes up for it, along with wildshape scouting. If you're worried about healing due to the Gritty Realism elements, the Circle of Dreams will give you some backup in that regard as well.

FYI if I were to play a ranger, the DM already mentioned he would probably replace natural explorer with something else (perhaps expertise in survival or nature), as he felt that would negate a lot of the fun for him. I’ve always been intrigued by a gloomstalker, but am still worried we need that arcane power. Same with a monk. Maybe I just need to accept that would bring a fun and unique challenge to the group.

[Tes]

Well combining the info I'd assume this means like every Hex is just 1 Encounters?

Depending on how many Hexes the party travels per day Short Rest classes could be bonkers, normal or just plain bad. I'm pretty much assuming Long Rest classes will take a hit. Spellslot based ressources being scarce and Ritual Spells always being available makes Wizard or Tomelock worth looking at with the current party comp.

To make good use of those stats, something unusual like Warlock + Warwizard maybe? Wizard Spell Slots, Cantrips & Rituals + Warlock Spell Slots & Cantrips for utility so you can keep busy. Maxing INT and CHA seems very doable with your stats. War Wizard for the Reaction (that blocks non cantrips if used), but any sort of Full Caster+Warlock flavor would work.

[Throne12]

If you cant think of anything or cant make up your mind. Just roll for everything there are 13 classes so roll a d20 reroll anything above 13 or just remove the last class you played and roll a d12. Then roll for race and sudclass.

[Aaron Underhand]

Artificer is a half-caster, you do need a full arcane caster. Here's a suggestion:

I played a vHuman Lore Bard, who started with the healer feat, and took a 1 level dip in Wizard at level 2 (character reasons)

1 Healer is a fantastic feat, even for gritty realism. Everybody gets up... even if only at 1 hp. PLUS - all the partty get to use spell slots on non-healing options

2 Bard song of rest adds to everyone's healing again

3 Wizard spells give you shield for defense and magic missile when you really must hit and damage

4 Familiar, and with luck most other 1st level rituals to eek out those spell slots

5 Lore Bard skills - face if you need to be, survival, scout, or knowlege

6 Take Moderately armoured at 4th for defense - leave STR or Dex odd for that (you could put 7 in STR)

Don't worry about damage output. at 7th level if you need to take Fireball (The other spell should always be counterspell) Thunderwave and Shatter are OK before then, and Hypnotic Pattern takes over at character level 6. Once you get 5th level spells Animate Objects pretty much solves damage output for good.

Basically this character gets the healing and the ritual spells as additional resource pools to spell slots, and the ability to pick more bard spells as the first level slots can be covered by wizard spells.

[Keravath]

Artificer is a half-caster, you do need a full arcane caster. Here's a suggestion:

I played a vHuman Lore Bard, who started with the healer feat, and took a 1 level dip in Wizard at level 2 (character reasons)

1 Healer is a fantastic feat, even for gritty realism. Everybody gets up... even if only at 1 hp. PLUS - all the partty get to use spell slots on non-healing options

2 Bard song of rest adds to everyone's healing again

3 Wizard spells give you shield for defense and magic missile when you really must hit and damage

4 Familiar, and with luck most other 1st level rituals to eek out those spell slots

5 Lore Bard skills - face if you need to be, survival, scout, or knowlege

6 Take Moderately armoured at 4th for defense - leave STR or Dex odd for that (you could put 7 in STR)

Don't worry about damage output. at 7th level if you need to take Fireball (The other spell should always be counterspell) Thunderwave and Shatter are OK before then, and Hypnotic Pattern takes over at character level 6. Once you get 5th level spells Animate Objects pretty much solves damage output for good.

Basically this character gets the healing and the ritual spells as additional resource pools to spell slots, and the ability to pick more bard spells as the first level slots can be covered by wizard spells.

Lore bard is a great class to play. However, I'd usually combine it with a level or two of hexblade. The wizard is cool, especially for the first level rituals and spells known but hexblade gives medium armor+shields+ shield spell which is a massive boost to AC along with a short rest spell slot (2 if you go to level 2) which could be very useful in a gritty realism game. Hexblade is also based off charisma and I just find it offers a bard much more than a wizard level.

If the character really wants a familiar it could take a third level in warlock for either pact of the tome for first and second level rituals or pact of the chain for improved familiars.