Grave Cleric Bored, in Game; Please Advise

[Dakeen]

I am playing a grave cleric in a game wherein there seems to be a certain unwritten rule, that encourages the minimalisation of actual “role-playing” during the game session in favour of swiftly killing as many things, as possible, so as to gain levels faster. Ventures beyond actual combat are usually limited to supply runs and info gathering in the most expeditious way possible. All the role-playing that leads to character reveals and development seem to be limited to player driven and monitored POST-game RP. WhichI do not have time for (schedule conflicts). So...as a grave cleric, who is not the party face, I am actually starting to find our gaming sessions boring because the only “action” I get is buffing and healing a bunch of min-maxed PCs in battle.

Which brings me to the thought that, maybe I should multi-class my grave cleric with a class that will actually allow me to be more active in battle. Anybody have any suggestions?

[Foxhound438]

Which brings me to the thought that, maybe I should multi-class my grave cleric with a class that will actually allow me to be more active in battle. Anybody have any suggestions?

If you're not level 5 yet you should wait until at least then, as you can pick up spirit guardians to become somewhat of a force to be reckoned with in close combat.

But for the greater issue, you might suggest to the group that you switch to milestone leveling so that less time has to be spent in combat to get the level ups. Alternatively, suggest that a campaign starts at a higher level so that everyone can have the build they want kind of out the gate, and so leveling up doesn't have to be a priority. Maybe the group is just used to being combat oriented though, so no guarantees on those. Maybe try to make combat more of an RP experience when you can? Not to the point of slowing it down, if it can be avoided, but reacting situations in character might be enough to scratch the RP itch for you.

[GentlemanVoodoo]

I am playing a grave cleric in a game wherein there seems to be a certain unwritten rule, that encourages the minimalisation of actual “role-playing” during the game session in favour of swiftly killing as many things, as possible, so as to gain levels faster. Ventures beyond actual combat are usually limited to supply runs and info gathering in the most expeditious way possible. All the role-playing that leads to character reveals and development seem to be limited to player driven and monitored POST-game RP. WhichI do not have time for (schedule conflicts). So...as a grave cleric, who is not the party face, I am actually starting to find our gaming sessions boring because the only “action” I get is buffing and healing a bunch of min-maxed PCs in battle.

Which brings me to the thought that, maybe I should multi-class my grave cleric with a class that will actually allow me to be more active in battle. Anybody have any suggestions?

Seems like your group is in favor of more map based combat than anything else. Rather than multiclass I would talk to your DM and see if you could change into one that is more combat oriented such as the War, Temptest and Forge domains if your still wanting to play a Cleric. If that isn't an option consider then classes that work well with the Cleric and Grave domain. Two that come to mind are the Ranger (select any subclass) or a Hexblade Warlock. Or if you aren't digging the Cleric in general, simply ask to switch to another class you enjoy playing.

But in order to advise more info is needed on what you are wanting to do to be more active. Melee focus? Skill focus? Odd ball person that can do pretty much anything?

[MrStabby]

As is the answer almost all the time... commuicate as a first step.

You may have done this but speak to the DM and the other players and make sure they know you want more RP and maybe just a touch less focus on combat. Sometimes games can get into a rut where what gets done is what has always been done because everyone thinks thats just what the table does. Others may feel the same way.

I wouldn't multiclass the samecharacter though - not unless you have a specific plan.

Either the game will change to be more RP focussed or it wont. If it does change, then you are probably happy with your character. If it doesnt change and it is still just combat, there there is little lost by the jarring discontinuity of one character dropping out and a new one just appearing. There is no benefit to character continuity so just play what suits you for the game style you are going for.

[Necroanswer]

I've played with groups of max/minners with zero interest in RP and I'd suggest just looking for a different group. You can talk to them, but I doubt a group is going to change their style of play for 1 person. Even if you get them to verbally agree with you expect to be undermined at the first opportunity, ie. start a social interaction with the leader of a caravan, someone probably going to stick their greataxe in his skull before you get 10 seconds into a conversation. Murderhobos are going to act like murderhobos.

[Keravath]

There are really two issues ..

1) If the group play style doesn't appeal to you then no matter what you do to change your character it won't make a difference.

2) "the only “action” I get is buffing and healing" ... this likely comes from playing previous editions of the cleric. In 5e, "buffing and healing" are something a cleric can do but there is no requirement. I've run into people who play clerics who don't have either healing or buff spells prepared .. "they aren't THAT kind of cleric".

Clerics are actually a very effective melee class. Spirit guardians at level 5 makes a cleric an amazing character on the front lines (war caster and/or resilient con are a good idea). Clerics can also throw out a spiritual weapon for a bonus action attack that scales with the level of the spell slot used for it. They also pick up bonus damage at level 8 typically. All these tools are available to ANY cleric. If the cleric takes magic initiate druid along the way they can pick up shillelagh for attacks based on wisdom. It gets even better if the cleric can get the booming blade cantrip (arcana clerics are good this way).


Anyway, if the reason you don't like the game is because you don't feel like your character is doing that much then you can change how you play your cleric relatively easily. On the other hand, if the issue is the group play style then your only option may be to change the group.

[Pex]

A cleric is a capable combatant. At the base for pure damage you can hang back and cast Spiritual Weapon/Toll The Dead to have two attacks on your turn. Use Sacred Flame instead of Toll The Dead against creatures resistant or immune to necrotic damage. When you need more oomph there's Guiding Bolt. If you already have Spiritual Weapon cast you can use it the same round you cast Guiding Bolt. Buffing party members is good. Bless is a worthy spell, but sometime debuffing is the better option. Bane hurts the bad guys a lot. No need to heal party members when the bad guys don't hit. It also makes them fail their save against Toll The Dead more. Do occasionally heal and buff party members. That does help, but don't let the players force you to do only those things. If they insist say something. It's your character, not theirs.

As for the roleplaying talk to the DM you would like more of that. You need his cooperation to get more dialogue with NPCs. However, some groups like playing the game as glorified Chess. If you can have fun with it make your character like that. No need to multiclass. Use spell tactics like above. Be more combat focused. If you need more story than the game provides, you have to decide for yourself if you can play anyway.

[CTurbo]

As mentioned above, the problem here is not with your character, but with your group's playstyle. Communicate your concerns to the group and DM. Changing domains is an easy fix perhaps. I've played a lot of Clerics and I've not once played one that focused on healing. You can always swap out your spells to better fit the playstyle, and just because you lack face skills doesn't mean you can't "do" more things.

I'd love to hear more about your character like stats and level, but if you're wanting to multiclass just to have more fun, you could get silly and start taking Druid (Moon) levels from now on, or even decide your character is going to be a Monk from now on. If you would rather play with a new group, but can't, but would rather play *this* than nothing, get silly with it and start taking Barbarian levels or something. Sometimes the ridiculous characters can be the funnest.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

A grave cleric can do a lot of damage and slow the enemies is the process with spirit guardians, spiritual weapon and toll the dead(as a grave you will get wiz modifier to damage).

You can also torcher and make someone pass a save with damage as the save trigger with spirit guardians and spear the dieing(stand with them in the spell area, make them drop to 0 HP, use spear the dieing. Wait a turn for them to take damage again and use spare the dieing again. You have 100 time of this.

[Galithar]

This is a issue of expectations and playstyle. You want a more RP centric game while playing with a bunch of people that want combat combat combat.

I don't think your class is relevant to the dissonance between playstyles though as Grave Clerics have great potential in combat.

[Rolero]

Like everyone said, your Cleric is fine. But as a support character with this group dynamic and playstyle, your experience can be quite dull on low levels. However, as they have already pointed out, Clerics get an amazing power up on 5th level. Spirit guardians + Spiritual weapon has become one of the cleric staple combos for a reason. On 6th level you can channel divinity 2 times per short rest, getting the x2 damage of path to the grave per shor rest, which is excepcional once you get used to coordinate it with your group main striker. Also, on 6th you get the ability to negate criticals, a cheat death card that your group will love you to have.

After that, multiclassing may not be a bad idea should you want to focus more in combat. If you can have the stats for it, 2 levels in Paladin will get you divine smite and make you compete in damage with the rest of the group, and will also net you a fighting style and proficiency with heavy armor and martial weapons.

However, before doing any this or other build suggestions: Talk with your group and your DM. Maybe there is another player that feels the same about the game or maybe the DM thinks everyone is having a blast and is rolling the game in auto-mode (get them into a dungeon, roll for an encounter, battle, rinse and repeat)
The golden rule of this game is that everyone should be having fun at the table. Don't be afraid to say that is not your case anymore.

[jaappleton]

I am playing a grave cleric in a game wherein there seems to be a certain unwritten rule, that encourages the minimalisation of actual “role-playing” during the game session in favour of swiftly killing as many things, as possible, so as to gain levels faster. Ventures beyond actual combat are usually limited to supply runs and info gathering in the most expeditious way possible. All the role-playing that leads to character reveals and development seem to be limited to player driven and monitored POST-game RP. WhichI do not have time for (schedule conflicts). So...as a grave cleric, who is not the party face, I am actually starting to find our gaming sessions boring because the only “action” I get is buffing and healing a bunch of min-maxed PCs in battle.

Which brings me to the thought that, maybe I should multi-class my grave cleric with a class that will actually allow me to be more active in battle. Anybody have any suggestions?

The issue you’re having isn’t your class.

It’s the style of game being played.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and make an assumption: Your DM doesn’t utilize Inspiration, so they? I’m not saying Bardic Inspiration, but the rule that a DM can invoke.

If you’re unfamiliar: Inspiration is advantage on any d20 roll. It can be awarded by the DM to reward excellent role playing. Especially when the decision you make is not the most optimal choice. If you have received Inspiration, you can also gift it to another player, if you find they need help in a crucial roll.

I suggest speaking with your DM about this, as a way to reward both yourself and the other players. If they find enacting a bit of RP will help them in battle, they might be more inclined to indulge.

The issue isn’t your class. It’s the fact that you, as a player, want more than doing speed runs through dungeons. And that’s OK, there’s nothing wrong with that! The issue is that what you want from the game isn’t quite in sync with what the other players want. Discussion is how to solve this, not changing your character.

[opaopajr]

Conflicting playstyle expectations, my sympathies. :smallsigh:

Sounds like 'The Power Trip'tm, where running up the XP and levels is the group fun goal than being in a fictional world. (Which does not thrill me much either like you for in TTRPGs you can start at any level and run way more complexity than treadmill arena fights... but that is my fun value judgment. :smallbiggrin:) Maybe you can have The Talk and hash it out as adults, but also be open that this might be their ideal fun while you want something completely different.

Sometimes mutual disengagement is healthiest for both, even after the talk and attempted compromise. :smallsmile:

Maybe the GM & Group does not know any other way to make the game complex & stimulating while still getting enough XP to care? :smallredface: But I doubt it. Seems like they are running their optimized dungeon crawl sim on purpose and this is their fun. :smallwink: And that's OK, just like it is for you to want your own fun -- and maybe even run your own game!

[Man_Over_Game]

To be fair, part of the problem IS the class. Grave Cleric isn't exactly exciting. It's probably one of the most "dumbfire" Cleric subclasses you can pick (as it's really hard to play wrong) in combat. Even being an Order Cleric would be fairly similar in playstyle while still having a lot more options in combat (being melee, what spells to use, what allies to target, etc).

Grave is what I'd recommend to a first time player or Cleric that doesn't want to be a healbot (as they curse/buff stuff too).