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Akennedy
2007-10-27, 09:44 AM
Hello all! I want to impose a challenge to all you build-masters out there. I want to make a build that takes no more than 5 levels in any given class. I would like for the class to be versatile but still be able to contribute to the party. Any WOTC v3.5 books allowed. I would like to thank all of you who help me out! Thanks!

bugsysservant
2007-10-27, 09:52 AM
Just because it is inevitable, and I like being first, Pun-Pun FTW!!!1! :smallbiggrin:

kemmotar
2007-10-27, 10:01 AM
There's a difference between versatile and omnipotent...Also it depends on what kind of versatile you mean?If you want absolute versatility go for chameleon PrC...but that's later than 5 levels.

If by versatility you mean skills, then rogue 5 with high intelligence would be good. Rogues are also good back up characters in battle dealing damage all around. So maybe fighter1/rogue4. UMD would be extremely useful and buy a wand of CLW and some form of attacking magic, whichever you prefer...Now you're a skillmonkey,off-healer,damage dealer and can use a bit of magic...Off course if you also want to be a meat shield then that's a bit pushing it with only 5 levels...so it depends on what kind of versatility you want since there's only so much you can do at level 5...

Quietus
2007-10-27, 10:02 AM
Just because it is inevitable, and I like being first, Pun-Pun FTW!!!1! :smallbiggrin:

Lame.

By 5 levels, does that include prestige classes? For example, could a human Fighter2/Swashbuckler3/Wizard5/Abjurant Champion5/Swiftblade or something could as having no more than 5 levels in a class, despite casting as a 10+ level wizard?

SilverClawShift
2007-10-27, 10:03 AM
What do you want exactly though? Just a 5-level limit per class? Contribute to the party how? Also, you're looking at an XP penalty for multiclassing, unless your DM ignores that (which I vote for anyway).

The cheesy answer is, 3 Wizard/ 2, 5, 5, 5 of full caster progression PRCs.
There, powerful, versatile, and useful. But I imagine that's not what you meant.

So.... 5 factotum. Lots of useful INT based stuff, opportunistic peity means a bare minimum of 30 free hitpoints worth of healing per day (and if you have even decent WIS, more like 52 or 65 even). Keep yourself polished. Plus all skills as class skills, heap of skill points, the ability to add 5 to any skill check once per day. Lots of goodies that makes you a handy little monkey to have around. You even get two first level arcane spells (true strike comes to mind).

Now where are we. Should have decent INT at the bare minimum. So a 3 level dip into swashbuckler. Use a rapier, INT to damage on living targets.

Could snag 5 levels of rogue if you want to keep your skills up, but you don't have to.
I'd recomend a dip into dragon shaman as well. Even a one level dip gets you 3 auras with +1 each (and really, +1 healing up to the halfway point is still HANDY, because you can take some downtime and get everyone in your party up to half their hitpoints, and then use other healing sources to get back to full. Less resources consumed).
If you took dragon shaman to 5, you'd get 5 auras to pick from, +2 to an aura, a breath weapon you can use frequently... And if you take it to at LEASt 3, you get Draconic Adaptation, which can get you a permanent trace of dragonly awesome. Water breathing? or spider climb at will? Feather fall at will?

5 levels of binder + the improved binding feat will get you 4th level vestiges.

even 2 levels of marshal will get you a major and a minor aura. minor = Cha to a specific save, major = +1 to something randomly useful.

Really, if you have a 5 level cap, you're either looking for PRCs that'll continue your progression in the same theme, or tons of dips into classes that'll get you stuff that continues being useful at higher levels. So what exactly are we shooting for here? :smalltongue:

Quietus
2007-10-27, 10:19 AM
What do you want exactly though? Just a 5-level limit per class? Contribute to the party how? Also, you're looking at an XP penalty for multiclassing, unless your DM ignores that (which I vote for anyway).

The cheesy answer is, 3 Wizard/ 2, 5, 5, 5 of full caster progression PRCs.
There, powerful, versatile, and useful. But I imagine that's not what you meant.

Make that 2 a pair of Spellthief levels, and pick up Master Spellthief. I believe that caps up your arcane caster level, though you're still going to end up two wizard levels behind. It also lets you steal 9th level spells (I think?), along with giving you 1d6 sneak attack that you can give up to do it. Oh, and Detect Magic cha/day, I think.

bugsysservant
2007-10-27, 10:23 AM
Lame.

...

Umm, sorta the point.

Anyway, yeah, if you want a good "versatile" build, factotum 5 is the way to go. Factotums are basicly designed solely to be versatile, so it has the WoTC stamp of approval (for what thats worth :smallwink: )

SilverClawShift
2007-10-27, 11:21 AM
If you're going for, what I think you're going for (misfit usefullness?), then here's what I'd build, not necessarily in this order. Mind you, this is completely ignoring the idea of favored classes and XP penalties for multiclassing (Which is against RAW, but really not a big deal. The biggest penalty for multiclassing is stopping your class progression, after all).

5 Factotum
3 Swashbuckler
3 Dragon Shaman
3 Warlock
1 Barbarian
5 Chameleon (or possibly Ur-Priest)

Have a high intelligence. Be a human or doppleganger (or changeling, if your DM lets you get away with the chameleon/changeling thing)

5 Factotum is a complete grab bag of goodies. Spend a ton of your feats on Font of Inspiration, to increase the amount of Inspiration points you can use per encounter (even though you won't be leveling up as a factotum. Even a level 1 factotum can use their inspiration for all kinds of wicked awesome. You even get to add your INT mod to your STR and DEX checks.
3 Swashbuckler, no need to even really talk about it. Stick to light armor and a light weapon, and add BOTH your INT and STR to damage against most targets.
3 Dragon Shaman means an aura (three auras to choose from, one active at a time) + a permanent ability of some kind. Feather fall at will can come in handy.
3 Warlock, 2d6 eldritch blast with 2 invocations known. Never know when you're going to be unarmed, and you can use some factotum abilities to nail people with your eldritch blasts.
1 Barbarian, move faster in light armor (which you'll be wearing). More presence on the field as you can cover more terrain naturally. Since we're dipping everywhere anyway.
5 Chameleon. Aside from the added adapatability (chameleon + factotum = anything you can do I can do better), you also get 4th level casting in either arcane or divine on any given day. You should have crazy high INT anyway for skills and factotum stuff, (not to mention adding it to your damage in most fights), and chameleon arcane casting is INT based, so you'll get bonus spells. If you also have high WIS, ur-priest would be a good option, because you get 5th level casting instead of 4th. You'd need enough WIS to give you a bonus spell slot though, so it's probably smarter to pump INT and stick with chameleon.

Alternatively, drop the 3 dragon shaman levels and 2 levels of warlock, and instead take 5 levels of duelist. With 20 INT you'll get an extra 5 AC, but only if you're unarmored. If you'd rather wear light armor, stick with the dragon shaman/warlock (or change it to marshal).

CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-27, 01:25 PM
Probably some kind of skill monkey with some useful spellcasting (Your spellcasting DCs won't be so great but still a lot of utility bumping them up with magic items) along with a breadth of abilities:

Factotum -3, Marshal -1 (Probably Motivate Wisdom over Intelligence (With Charisma Mod which should be (+5 or better) at level 20 without a template and a +6 Cloak of Charisma)), Monk -2, Bard -1, Ur Priest - 5 (Probably taking 3 of those levels as a PRC Thaumaturgist would be best before picking up Nar Demonbinder since you would pick up Augmented Summoning and Extended Summoning although Loremaster wouldn't be a Bad ideal either with Lore and 2 Secrets which would allow you to lose that level of Bard for something like a level of Dragon Shaman for those Auras like Fast Healing 1 below 50% hit points), Nar Demonbinder -2 MT-5 (This meets your thread requirement of no more than 5 levels in any class or prc while still providing you level 8 arcane spells and level 9 divine spells)

This leaves a single level open just in case the DM is limiting the build to 190,000 Experience points: I'd take a UA Major Bloodline paid down by level 4 and a +2 LA Template paid down early before level 10 as normally being better than a single class level particularly with the build criteria here):

Either Rogue at level 1 for the skill points or Swordsage at level 20 if your PC receives the benefit up taking up to level 5 maneuvers for having an Initiator level of 9 + 1 for Sword Sage at that level.

This would give your PC level 9 divine spells which includes Miracles for a lot of utility. Nar Demonbinder would give you some limited arcane spellcasting of levels 4th - 8th (Your PC would know 14 level 4 - level 8 arcane spells and be able to cast 14 spells before charisma ability modifiers).

If you went the Changeling Rogue route at first level you would get 10 skill points at first level. Plus it gets the special Social Intution for taking 10 on things like Diplomacy, Gather Info, Sense Motive and Intimidate checks plus Gather Information checks only take 1/6 the normal time.

If you use psionics in game. As a Psychic Rogue you would be able to learn a psionic power like Inertial Armor a few times a day, although you do the same thing with Anyspell and casting Mage Armor for 15 minutes out of your day.

If you used a UA/D20 SRD Bloodline you could could pay down a +3 LA Major Bloodline by level 4 because they have different pay down rules. Iron Will is a bonus feat in some of them and a prerequisite for Nar Demon Binder and Ur Priest a lot easier to pay it down with experience than blow a feat.

I'd suggest picking up a +2 LA template which should be paid down way before level 20 (levels 3rd and 9th advancing basically 13,000 Exp) normally so you would have or possibly only have 19 class levels if the DM is limiting it to 190,000 Experience points but still a good ideal things like Phrenic or Half Fey or Shadow Creature and plenty of others.

For a 20 level build you could always delay that third level of Factotum until level 7 (8 if taking the Changeloing Rogue variant) since you would be PRCing after that and PRCs don't get experience point penalties.

Using 32 point buy I'd go for 16 in Wisdom with 14s in Intelligence, Charisma and Constitution with 10s in Dex and St before template and race adjustments.

This PC isn't much of a physical combatant but he should be able to do a lot of things quite well with those Factotum Levels and abilities. Bardic Knowledge, Evasion, Monk Wisdom bonus to AC if he choses not to wear armor, Factotum bonus to AC and skill checks since it renews pretty quickly, Pretty good spellcasting compared to a primary divine spellcaster, a Fiendish Familiar, Inimical casting. You can stick this guy down almost anywhere in the world without gear or spells and he will be good to go shortly if he can steal spells and rest.

enderrocksonall
2007-10-27, 01:49 PM
Where is the factotum PrC from?

CASTLEMIKE
2007-10-27, 02:00 PM
Edit: Dungeonscape and as Goat posts below it is a 20 level base class. The Factotum thread at Gleemax/Wizard's will give you an ideal what it can do:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=791436

goat
2007-10-27, 02:02 PM
Factotum's not a PrC, it's a base class.

Temp
2007-10-27, 02:03 PM
Factotum 1/Scout 3/Marshal 1/Trapsmith 1/Chameleon 5/Abjurant Champion 5 (advancing Chameleon. Cheesy? Yes. Legal? By RAW, yes. By RAI? Probably not)/Exemplar 4.

Whether you do this or not, Factotum, Able Learner and two Chameleon levels are a must.
Exemplar's nice for the skill bonuses.