Questions About The Disciples Of Asmodeus Prestige Class

[Bartmanhomer]

I have a few questions about The Disciples Of Asmodeus Prestige Class:

1. What Tier is The Disciples Of Asmodeus Prestige Class?

2. Is The Disciples Of Asmodeus a good prestige class to use for clerics?

3. What is the best way to optimize The Disciples Of Asmodeus with a cleric at Level 19?

[Asmotherion]

Well, you loose multiple Caster Levels, a major red flag for Full Casters.

You do get some Slas that you can get either way as a Caster.

Either way, it's sub par at best, and I'd reserve it for some thematic NPC as a DM rather than as a Player option.

If you're looking for a cool Fiend themed Class for a Conjurer, I suggest Malconvoker. The benefits are awesome, and 1 caster level lost is a lesser tax to pay.

[Nifft]

1 - Around the same tier as taking all levels of Mindbender or Spellsword. It's a downgrade for casters.

2 - No, you lose 4 spellcaster levels.

3 - By taking zero levels of it, or maaaaaybe by using an accelerated-casting class like Ur-Priest so losing 4 spellcaster levels doesn't absolutely wreck you.

Maybe something like...


Monk 5 / Ur-Priest 2 / Disciple of Garbage 10 / Full-Caster PrC 2

That gets you 9th level spells at level 19, which is halfway tolerable, plus a bunch of low-level spell-like abilities which generally won't help but you can just ignore them.

[Bartmanhomer]

Well, you loose multiple Caster Levels, a major red flag for Full Casters.

You do get some Slas that you can get either way as a Caster.

Either way, it's sub par at best, and I'd reserve it for some thematic NPC as a DM rather than as a Player option.

If you're looking for a cool Fiend themed Class for a Conjurer, I suggest Malconvoker. The benefits are awesome, and 1 caster level lost is a lesser tax to pay.


1 - Around the same tier as taking all levels of Mindbender or Spellsword. It's a downgrade for casters.

2 - No, you lose 4 spellcaster levels.

3 - By taking zero levels of it, or maaaaaybe by using an accelerated-casting class like Ur-Priest so losing 4 spellcaster levels doesn't absolutely wreck you.

Maybe something like...


Monk 5 / Ur-Priest 2 / Disciple of Garbage 10 / Full-Caster PrC 2

That gets you 9th level spells at level 19, which is halfway tolerable, plus a bunch of low-level spell-like abilities which generally won't help but you can just ignore them.

Good Kord, it's that bad huh? :eek: I should stick with Malconvoker then.

[Nifft]

Good Kord, it's that bad huh? :eek: I should stick with Malconvoker then.

Someone did a revision of the Disciple: https://www.enworld.org/threads/bovd-3-5e-hellbound.77916/post-1384051

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The original Tier System for PrCs (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1573.0) puts it at +1 (i.e. a Tier 3 that takes it becomes a Tier 2). Granted it loses four levels of spellcasting, which barring Kobold Sorcerer shenanigans or similar will cut you out of 9th level spells prior to epic levels. Personally I wouldn't put it higher than +0 unless you get some seriously good use out of Learn Secret, or use it to advance another class like Ur-Priest and can still get 9ths by 20th.

So to answer your specific questions:

1. What Tier is The Disciples Of Asmodeus Prestige Class?
+0 on a Cleric, +1 on an Ur-Priest.

2. Is The Disciples Of Asmodeus a good prestige class to use for clerics?
No, because it's no better than taking more levels of Cleric. You can do better.

3. What is the best way to optimize The Disciples Of Asmodeus with a cleric at Level 19?
You're already evil, you may as well go all-out with something like Duskblade 5/ Ur-Priest 2/ Disciple of Asmodeus 10/ Paragnostic Apostle or similar 2.

[Nifft]

The original Tier System for PrCs (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1573.0) puts it at +1 (i.e. a Tier 3 that takes it becomes a Tier 2).

That math looks backwards.

IIRC it should be that T2 +1 => T3.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

That math looks backwards.

IIRC it should be that T2 +1 => T3.

It's labeled "Good to Great Tier prestige classes (+1)" which means it makes you better or moves you up by one tier, despite the tier number going down by one. There's no need to be pedantic when I posted a link to the thing that explains it.

[Bartmanhomer]

I check with Malconvoker and you have to be non-evil to require that prestige class. :sigh: I'm going to stick with cleric.

[Kelb_Panthera]

While disciple of asmodeus advances casting, it doesn't require it. It's pretty strictly an upgrade on most of your skill type characters other than bard and maybe ranger. The +6 levels of casting might make a dip just before DoA a good idea if you have a class or prestige class with some low level spells you'd like to go with the DoA's spell-likes. Maybe trapsmith?

[Thurbane]

Diabolist, also a PrC from BoVD, is probably a better option for a LE/devil-worshipping Cleric, and has full casting progression. It also has less req feats.

[Bartmanhomer]

Diabolist, also a PrC from BoVD, is probably a better option for a LE/devil-worshipping Cleric, and has full casting progression. It also has less req feats.

Hmmm...I like it. A better choice for my NPC villain. :smile:

[Nifft]

It's labeled "Good to Great Tier prestige classes (+1)" which means it makes you better or moves you up by one tier, despite the tier number going down by one. There's no need to be pedantic when I posted a link to the thing that explains it.

Okay, then I disagree with the list.

Losing four spellcaster levels seems like a transition from Good to Poor, with no detectable Great present.