Swords Bard/ Rogue - Magical Secrets 10 help

[RingoBongo]

So I'm thinking ahead with learned spells as I am working on a swords bard 10/swashbuckler rogue 10 split and I've all but nailed down the last magical secret spell... Right now I'm at character level 7 in a high magic item campaign aiming for tier 4 and maybe epic levels. Our party consists of 2 SS/GWM fighters, a barbarian, paladin, wizard, life cleric, and me. Here's a little more about my guy..

Stats (rolled): 16, 20, 17, 14, 16, 18

Magic Items:
+3 double bladed scimitar
+2 studded leather
Cloak of protection
Ring of protection
Luckstone

Feats (and level earned):
Revenant blade - (free starting feat)
Inspiring leader - 7
Resilient con - 10
Lucky - 13
+2 charisma - 16
defensive duelist? - 18

Spells: 14 total (ignore my shorthand notes)
1st level
- healing word - BA (up)
- dissonant whisp(Wis save) - A (up)
- Bane* (cha save) - A (up)
2nd level
- invisibility* - A (up)
- warding wind* - A
- blind deaf(con save) - A (up)
3rd level
- hypnotic pattern* (Wis save) - A
- dispel magic - A (up)
- bestow curse* - A (up)
4th level
- dimension door - A
- greater invisibility* - A
5th level
- MS steel wind strike - A
- animate objects* - A

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First and magical secrets choice goes to.... Steel wind strike. And since that's a 5th level along with animate objects and I only have 2 5th level slots, I am leaning towards a lower level choice... I think. Open to other suggestions as well...

Options for second choice:
1st level Absorb Elements
2nd level Blur
3rd level crusader's mantle or counterspell
4th level find greater steed

[nickl_2000]

What about Shadowblade? That's a pretty killer spell.

[RingoBongo]

What about Shadowblade? That's a pretty killer spell.

It's a fair and valid suggestion.
Revenant Double Bladed Scimitar +3 = 5d4+24 = 36.5 average dpr

vs.

Shadow blade (3rd level slot) + shortsword = 6d8+1d6+15 = 45.5 average dpr (+3 more with a magical shortsword..)

I just think that I could hold my concentration on something more valuable than a potential increase of ~ 10 damage. Not to mention two swings of the shadow blade would be 3 less on the attack roll.

Also, it's easier to have a hand free to cast another spell with double bladed scimitar...

[Dork_Forge]

It's a fair and valid suggestion.
Revenant Double Bladed Scimitar +3 = 5d4+24 = 36.5 average dpr

vs.

Shadow blade (3rd level slot) + shortsword = 6d8+1d6+15 = 45.5 average dpr (+3 more with a magical shortsword..)

I just think that I could hold my concentration on something more valuable than a potential increase of ~ 10 damage. Not to mention two swings of the shadow blade would be 3 less on the attack roll.

Also, it's easier to have a hand free to cast another spell with double bladed scimitar...

I think you're better off with Haste than Shadow Blade, it's more versatile, gives a lot of benefits and if you attack with it, the bonus damage is over ten more (I can't remember off the top of my head what the double bladed scimitar is, but you get at least a 9/10 from mods and 1 on damage die).

[follacchioso]

Counterspell is a must, especially if you are planning to go high levels. There is no limit to the list of horrible things that can happen to you, if you don't have counterspell.

[DevilMcam]

There is sooo much cool spells to get:

Bigby's hand (your average solution for every single problem)
Find greater steed
circle of power
destructive wave
conjure elemental, conjure woodland beeings
spirit guardian
spiritual weapon
Far step
Dawn
Counterspell
Haste
Ervard Black tentacles...

[RingoBongo]

I think you're better off with Haste than Shadow Blade, it's more versatile, gives a lot of benefits and if you attack with it, the bonus damage is over ten more (I can't remember off the top of my head what the double bladed scimitar is, but you get at least a 9/10 from mods and 1 on damage die).

You're right, especially since I probably wouldn't cast shadow blade higher than a 3rd level slot. Haste is the best option between these two.

Double Bladed Scimitar is 2d4

With revenant blade feat it becomes finesse and I can use my bonus action to attack with the other end for 1d4. With the way it's worded I believe my dex mod can be added to the bonus action attack. Regardless, my DM ruled sword bard's two weapon fighting style applies to this weapon.

[RingoBongo]

Counterspell is a must, especially if you are planning to go high levels. There is no limit to the list of horrible things that can happen to you, if you don't have counterspell.

I'm starting to lean this way... But still unsure especially since there is already a wizard in the party. Though I haven't seen him cast it yet...

Regardless, I don't think he is abjuration and I do get +half proficiency from Jack of all trades and +1 from luck stone to the ability check to counterspell or dispel magic of higher level spells. but my spell casting modifier is not maxed out either... Also, since I am only going to level 10 in bard, I likely wouldn't upcast either spell and would have to make do with a 3rd level cast and ability check. I don't have much any experience with these spells and making these checks. Would I be better off leaving it to the wizard? Would I be competent enough at doing it knowing my abilities and limitations?

[follacchioso]

I'm playing a high level campaign, and Counterspell really improves your survivability against big encounters.

It will give you a chance to negate any nasty effect within 60ft. Some examples? Finger of Death, Maze, all Power Words, Polymorph, and so on.

Even if your CHA is not maxed out, you will have a chance at negating these nasty spells before they have effect. It's true that your wizard may already have it, but your he/she may not always be within range, or be in a condition to cast it.

As a bonus, Counterspell has only Somatic Components. There is a lot of Role Play potential for describing a Bard counterspelling Power Word Kill.

[Specter]

I would suggest Shadow Blade immediately, but since you already have a magic weapon that's not as cool as it could be.

In this scenario, I would lean towards Crusader's Mantle, but only if you can organize the party properly so that they can also benefit from this damage. Counterspell is a better choice otherwise.

Also keep in mind that Steel Wind Strike is a better option for folks like Wizards who have very bad attacks on their own. It's not as impressive if you have good attacking power as it is.

[RingoBongo]

I'm playing a high level campaign, and Counterspell really improves your survivability against big encounters.

It will give you a chance to negate any nasty effect within 60ft. Some examples? Finger of Death, Maze, all Power Words, Polymorph, and so on.

Even if your CHA is not maxed out, you will have a chance at negating these nasty spells before they have effect. It's true that your wizard may already have it, but your he/she may not always be within range, or be in a condition to cast it.

As a bonus, Counterspell has only Somatic Components. There is a lot of Role Play potential for describing a Bard counterspelling Power Word Kill.

This makes sense... I am a bit hesitant though because I don't necessarily know how our DM will carry out spells and spells being counterspelled. I'll have to wait and see the wizard use first, hopefully. I got time.

Also, I don't want to necessarily force the DM to make encounters around me having the spell. That will eat up my slots where I'd like to cast more often other thing that do stuff as opposed to just negating stuff.

[RingoBongo]

In this scenario, I would lean towards Crusader's Mantle, but only if you can organize the party properly so that they can also benefit from this damage. Counterspell is a better choice otherwise.

Also keep in mind that Steel Wind Strike is a better option for folks like Wizards who have very bad attacks on their own. It's not as impressive if you have good attacking power as it is.

Steel Wind Strike (if they all hit which they should since we have flanking advantage and I could always cast greater invisibility before) essentially would triple or quadruple my dpr for one round. Plus its kind of a thematic option... Though if I had animate objects cast instead it's only about double my dpr per round. I see where you are coming from though in that it's better for a wizard... Something to think about I suppose. Maybe taking counterspell and crusader's mantle would be better... Though that will leave me with only one 5th level spell option.

[Specter]

Steel Wind Strike (if they all hit which they should since we have flanking advantage and I could always cast greater invisibility before) essentially would triple or quadruple my dpr for one round. Plus its kind of a thematic option... Though if I had animate objects cast instead it's only about double my dpr per round. I see where you are coming from though in that it's better for a wizard... Something to think about I suppose. Maybe taking counterspell and crusader's mantle would be better... Though that will leave me with only one 5th level spell option.

If you were considering Paladin spells, here are other useful ones:

- Destructive Wave: 30 feet range, selected creatures (no friendly fire), 10d6 damage split between two damage types, plus prone if they fail on the save. Seems better than Steel Wind Strike.
- Circle of Power: Similar to Crusader's Mantle, but gives save advantage instead of extra damage and ignores 'half-if-successful' effects from spells. Massive buff.

[RingoBongo]

If you were considering Paladin spells, here are other useful ones:

- Destructive Wave: 30 feet range, selected creatures (no friendly fire), 10d6 damage split between two damage types, plus prone if they fail on the save. Seems better than Steel Wind Strike.
- Circle of Power: Similar to Crusader's Mantle, but gives save advantage instead of extra damage and ignores 'half-if-successful' effects from spells. Massive buff.

I appreciate the feedback. I'm not trying to argue down your ideas, rather these are my thoughts about the two spells. If you see any flaw in reasoning, I welcome further input..

Destructive wave seems good but it is a con save which isn't bad but I think I'd prefer the dex save of fireball (which our wizard already casts alot!)... And steel Wind strike can crit which has an awesome factor of about 12d10 (and +10 to hit as opposed to a DC save of 17or18.. not sure which is better, honestly) . Don't get me wrong DW spell is definitely a contender... Just doesn't seem that much different than an upcasted fireball and with a worse save. But cool rider effects. Thematically destructive wave seems like a good strength based user spell (smashing into the ground) vs. sws being more dexterity (teleporting around). My character is primarily dex based.

And paladin already has an aura similar to circle of power on 24/7 seems redundant to double up.

[Specter]

I appreciate the feedback. I'm not trying to argue down your ideas, rather these are my thoughts about the two spells. If you see any flaw in reasoning, I welcome further input..

Destructive wave seems good but it is a con save which isn't bad but I think I'd prefer the dex save of fireball (which our wizard already casts alot!)... And steel Wind strike can crit which has an awesome factor of about 12d10 (and +10 to hit as opposed to a DC save of 17or18.. not sure which is better, honestly) . Don't get me wrong DW spell is definitely a contender... Just doesn't seem that much different than an upcasted fireball and with a worse save. But cool rider effects. Thematically destructive wave seems like a good strength based user spell (smashing into the ground) vs. sws being more dexterity (teleporting around). My character is primarily dex based.

And paladin already has an aura similar to circle of power on 24/7 seems redundant to double up.

Sure, it's your decision, really. I'm just spitballing here.

About the Paladin aura: Holy crap I totally forgot about that. So basically you all want to be close to him to enjoy that +CHA to all saves and no fear, and on top of that you would be able to make everyone save with advantage with Circle of Power. That's a very, very annoying combination for any DM, now that I think about it.