Screen spell

[Jon_Dahl]

I asked this in the Simple Raw Q&A thread, and I received a very good answer (thank you, KillianHawkeye), but I am so puzzled about this spell that I would like to know/understand more.

Question regarding Screen: A caster casts Screen (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/screen.htm) and dictates that she cannot be observed within the area. Someone enters the area and gets attacked by the caster. If the attacked person fails his Will save to disbelieve the glamer, does that mean that the caster can continue attacking the person without being observed by the attacked person in any way? What can the person do to discern the caster barring spellcasting?

[Blackhawk748]

Well, attacking them would definitely proc a save, and doing so multiple times would also proc a save, depending on the mode of attack.

If they are casting something like Call Lightning which originates from above them and has no visible connection to the caster, then it could easily be seen as just a Trap.

[Zarrgon]

First off, you really want to read the spells description in the Players Handbook. The SDR version is some sad cliffnotes.

Though, as the spell does state, it only effects observation: sight. So any way of detecting or sensing a creature that is not sight will work. If the spell blocked all means of sensing a creature it would say so, but it does not.

So scent, tremorsense, and echolocation would all work. So would many divination spells.

The spell never says "invisible", so it's a DMs call if Screen makes effected creatures invisible. If so anything that detects invisible, from divination's to the old toss flour works.

Of course, dispel magic and other such spells can effect the spell

Any one immune to illusions would ignore the spell(maybe)

Any creature with sight beyond sight would ignore the spell effect....so polymorph into one.

And, of course, leave the spell effect area.

[Jon_Dahl]

First off, you really want to read the spells description in the Players Handbook. The SDR version is some sad cliffnotes.

Though, as the spell does state, it only effects observation: sight. So any way of detecting or sensing a creature that is not sight will work. If the spell blocked all means of sensing a creature it would say so, but it does not.

So scent, tremorsense, and echolocation would all work. So would many divination spells.

The spell never says "invisible", so it's a DMs call if Screen makes effected creatures invisible. If so anything that detects invisible, from divination's to the old toss flour works.

Of course, dispel magic and other such spells can effect the spell

Any one immune to illusions would ignore the spell(maybe)

Any creature with sight beyond sight would ignore the spell effect....so polymorph into one.

And, of course, leave the spell effect area.

I disagree. If the caster cannot be observed in the area, he or she cannot be discerned in any way. I don't want to go into semantics of observation being purely visual.

[Asmotherion]

the way I read it, it effects direct observation. being attacked and concluding that something is there is an indirect observation.

the spell doesn't seem to be able to influence the cognitive ability of creatures which are subject to it, just what information they gaine through observation.

If they suddenly feel stabed, they could naturally assume magic is being used, though they may suspect a different kind of spell, such as an evocation or conjuration.

Though, using it alongside an other Illusion seems like it would provide a good explaination of why they got damaged, and thus a big circumstance penalty to the will save.

[Zarrgon]

I disagree. If the caster cannot be observed in the area, he or she cannot be discerned in any way. I don't want to go into semantics of observation being purely visual.

Well, even though the spell does not say so anywhere in the text, you could say the spell grants Absolute Undetectiability by Any Means. You would think that if the spell did that, it would be in the text.

And the spell sure is written in a more "screens and area by creating an illusion" then "making the caster undiscerable in any way. You'd think that spell "Undetectable Foe" would have more a range of zero and not have wil save for enemies.

Really, any Absolute Spell is a bad idea. To get all silly and say nothing can discern the caster in any way.

If you really need a Gottha Spell to ruin a game, the screen spell with your interpretation works just fine.

[Blackhawk748]

Well, even though the spell does not say so anywhere in the text, you could say the spell grants Absolute Undetectiability by Any Means. You would think that if the spell did that, it would be in the text.

And the spell sure is written in a more "screens and area by creating an illusion" then "making the caster undiscerable in any way. You'd think that spell "Undetectable Foe" would have more a range of zero and not have wil save for enemies.

Really, any Absolute Spell is a bad idea. To get all silly and say nothing can discern the caster in any way.

If you really need a Gottha Spell to ruin a game, the screen spell with your interpretation works just fine.

The spell does state that they will remain undetectable so long as they avoid the people walking around in the illusion, so that seems to go along the lines of "basically invisible"