Spheres of power - 3.5 version

[Kaleph]

My google-fu wasn't very successful, so I'm asking directly: is there a system's adaptation for d&d 3.5? Something official, or a good homebrew would do.

In addition, have you any experience on this matter? How does the import work? E.g., how smoothly/efficiently can the new system be adapted to work with traditional classes and PrC's?

Thank you in advance.

[stack]

I don't believe there is anything official, unless someone was very busy recently.

Haven't seen any homebrew for it, but it may be out there.

Adapting it should be mostly straightforward. Anything the touches on CMB/CMD will need reworking. There would be other rules wrinkles here and there I expect, but nothing that couldn't be dealt with. Classes would need to be converted to 3.5 skills, obviously. They also get more features than 3.5 classes tend to (especially PHB classes).

The casting class archetypes should work for the 3.5 classes, with some adjustment. PRCs, you can do case-by-case, there aren't global rules for them and converting them on a case-by-case basis ought to be sufficient.

Sans advanced talents, I still expect it would mostly fall neatly into the tier 3 range.

[Thunder999]

Ok so most of it is pretty simple, change the class skill lists to use the 3.5 skills, make anything based on skill ranks use skill ranks -3 and anything that gives skill ranks grant an extra 3.

Replace cmb with grapple checks for grappling and opposed strength/dex checks for other stuff (letting the caster use their casting score instead any time they would have used it to calcualte CMB)

[Kaleph]

Thank you for your time; I still have a couple of questions, below.


I don't believe there is anything official, unless someone was very busy recently.

Haven't seen any homebrew for it, but it may be out there.

Adapting it should be mostly straightforward. Anything the touches on CMB/CMD will need reworking. There would be other rules wrinkles here and there I expect, but nothing that couldn't be dealt with.
Fair enough.


Classes would need to be converted to 3.5 skills, obviously. They also get more features than 3.5 classes tend to (especially PHB classes).

The casting class archetypes should work for the 3.5 classes, with some adjustment.

So, as far as I understand, I can combine the 3.5 wizard with the sphere wizard archetype, and it would require the least amount of tinkering, correct? That's what I'd probably start with, since I'm new to the system and don't want to mess it up.


PRCs, you can do case-by-case, there aren't global rules for them and converting them on a case-by-case basis ought to be sufficient.
Can I use traditional 3.5 PrC's with the "spheres of power" system? How does the "+1 level of spellcasting classes translate"?


Sans advanced talents, I still expect it would mostly fall neatly into the tier 3 range.

That's a nice tier to start with.

EDIT

Ok so most of it is pretty simple, change the class skill lists to use the 3.5 skills, make anything based on skill ranks use skill ranks -3 and anything that gives skill ranks grant an extra 3.

Replace cmb with grapple checks for grappling and opposed strength/dex checks for other stuff (letting the caster use their casting score instead any time they would have used it to calcualte CMB)
Understood; the open point is (see above) how old PrC's merge to the new system.

[stack]

There are two way to convert prestige classes.

You can keep them 3.5-style, treating every "+1 level of previous class" as granting CL and talents as if you gained a level of your previous class. This is okay for straightforward builds, especially with full-caster entry and requires the least up-front work. It is a problem with multiclassing, since a lowcaster could dip incanter or wizard 1, then use the +1 to advance that 1 level dip, since CL and talents stack (unless using a variant rule).

The other way is to rework them like the spheres prestige classes. You give the prestige a CL and talent progression of its own to stack on whatever you entered with (so may eldritch knight keeps full BAB, but grant a mid-casting progression with 1 talent each time it gains a CL. Or even full casting with 1 talent/level, not like it has much else going for it). This is probably the cleaner way to go, but takes more time and design judgement. Overall, 3.5 classes, at least early ones, seemed to be designed as a jumping off point for prestiges, while PF and sphere classes tend to use prestiges more sparingly and give up more features to take them.

[Asmotherion]

Eh, nobody really likes it. The reason I stayed away from PF2 for ao long was because I had the misconception it used those instead of a Vancian System,

[stack]

Eh, nobody really likes it. The reason I stayed away from PF2 for ao long was because I had the misconception it used those instead of a Vancian System,

Wrong thread?

[Kaleph]

There are two way to convert prestige classes.

You can keep them 3.5-style, treating every "+1 level of previous class" as granting CL and talents as if you gained a level of your previous class. This is okay for straightforward builds, especially with full-caster entry and requires the least up-front work. It is a problem with multiclassing, since a lowcaster could dip incanter or wizard 1, then use the +1 to advance that 1 level dip, since CL and talents stack (unless using a variant rule).

The other way is to rework them like the spheres prestige classes. You give the prestige a CL and talent progression of its own to stack on whatever you entered with (so may eldritch knight keeps full BAB, but grant a mid-casting progression with 1 talent each time it gains a CL. Or even full casting with 1 talent/level, not like it has much else going for it). This is probably the cleaner way to go, but takes more time and design judgement. Overall, 3.5 classes, at least early ones, seemed to be designed as a jumping off point for prestiges, while PF and sphere classes tend to use prestiges more sparingly and give up more features to take them.

The big picture is clear, thank you. I have to reconsider if what I had in mind (the first option) is sensible, or if I'm actually forcing too much a system to become what it wasn't designed to be.

[Thunder999]

Well most pathfinder PrCs don't actually work with spherecasters either, it's a pretty selfcontained system, and unless you plan to strip them off their class features, spherecasters don't really need to take PrCs to be interesting like most 3.5 classes do.

[StSword]

I've always considered spheres of power the pathfinder take on warlock/dragonfire adept invocation system.

So one might want to look at the prestige class rules for invocation users if porting over SoP to 3x.

[Kaleph]

I've always considered spheres of power the pathfinder take on warlock/dragonfire adept invocation system.

So one might want to look at the prestige class rules for invocation users if porting over SoP to 3x.

That's more or less what I had in mind when I approached the system. Scope 1: learn the system. Scope 2: create a playable character, that will go in a pool with other, say, 10 PC's, waiting (maybe forever) to be chosen for a campaign.

I believe a single-class sphere druid will be a good exercise to fulfill scope 1 and 2.

[StSword]

Might want to pick up the ritual caster feat, by the by, which allows one to learn rituals even if one doesn't have the base sphere.

There are a lot of useful utility spells out there in dnd after all, being able to cast them, albeit very slowly, is bound to come in handy sooner or later.

I even thought that a Wizard Bokor with ritual caster would be interesting, since a spellbook doubles as a ritual book in a setting that has both, so such a character could cast ritually every spell they ever learned as a wizard, as long as the spherecaster has an arcane casting tradition.

But neither here nor there, as the saying goes....

[thorr-kan]

I asked the same question a few years ago, and alas, there does not seem to be any.

If a conversion to 3.5/d20 was written, I'd buy it. I stopped d20 with 3.5/Modern. Never got into Pathfinder, save for some supplements, and have no interest in doing so now.

[AmberVael]

I suspect there's not much business incentive to release for 3.5, unfortunately. The 3.5 audience has been remarkably resilient over the years, but it's numbers have still dwindled well below Pathfinder, let alone the behemoth of 5e. There's a big question of whether a 3.5 version would earn enough money to make the invested time worth it.

On the more positive side, it's not super hard to backport spheres. I've done it before. There's a few oddities here and there you have to watch out for (particularly effects that use CMB/CMD) but there's plenty of material that just works as is.