Unoptimized Coffeelock Questions

[Nerdguy88]

I have a game coming up where I will be playing a Changeling Aberrant Mind Sorcerer/Raven Queen Warlock. Starting out I am Warlock3/Sorcerer2. Both subclasses are from UA.

Character
Race: Changeling
Class: Divine Soul Sorcerer 2/Raven Queen Warlock 3(Pact of the Tome)
Stats: 10 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Int, 14 Wis, 20 Cha Our entire group had very good stat rolls.

I am starting with a shiftweave and plan to change forms frequently. I know the coffeelock can often be very broken but I wanted to focus on buffing up my team as opposed to throwing huge big spells around.

I want to be able to cheese this to the maximum while not being the center of attention. Most of the people I am playing with are pretty new and I would like to find ways to help them shine with what they want to do. What spells/feats can I take to help accomplish this? Any help is appreciated!

Edit: Our DM has told us he is using variant rest rules and short rests are 15 minutes.

EditEdit: Aberrant Mind Sorcerer was changed to divine soul sorcerer at DMs request.

[JNAProductions]

Inspiring Leader is a good pick.

Enhance Ability is always welcome on fellow party members.

[Nerdguy88]

Enhance Ability is always welcome on fellow party members.

I didn't know about Enhance Ability. What a cool spell. Going to grab that one for sure.

[JNAProductions]

Also, probably should've said this in my first post-clear this with your DM.

Talk to them, explain your plan (if you haven't already) and make sure they're cool with it.

[Nerdguy88]

Also, probably should've said this in my first post-clear this with your DM.

Talk to them, explain your plan (if you haven't already) and make sure they're cool with it.

I tend to be a bit of a munchkin so I run everything by my DM before bringing it into games. I've had one or two times when I have been asked to change what I was planning :smallsmile:

[JNAProductions]

I tend to be a bit of a munchkin so I run everything by my DM before bringing it into games. I've had one or two times when I have been asked to change what I was planning :smallsmile:

Okay. Just making sure that you did that-don't want your DM vetoing your build at session 1, or worse, session 5.

[Nerdguy88]

Okay. Just making sure that you did that-don't want your DM vetoing your build at session 1, or worse, session 5.

Ya I've had that happen its no fun :( I have been running all my choices by him just to make sure.

I recently decided on Aspect of the Moon as one of my invocations so hopefully I can keep the buffs going 24/7.

[Keravath]

Personally, I would suggest no.

At the very least, discuss with the DM and explain ALL of the implications of a sorcerer who never sleeps and has an infinite number of spell slots so that they can cast as many spells as they want and can recycle all those spell slots into an unlimited number of spell points so that after every battle they have a full set of spell points to use in each upcoming fight.

Even explaining how you want to use this to help all the other players won't explain why you get to cast 10 hypnotic pattern spells in a day, or cast a twinned or heightened blindness every single round, or cast twinned haste over and over again while every other character in the party has to carefully watch their spell slot usage over the entire day. Never mind that you get everything back with 15 minute short rests. Take an hour rest and you generate 16 spell points which can be recycled into slots limited only by your sorcerer level.

As perhaps you can tell :) ... I consider the entire coffee lock concept broken, overpowered and cheesy beyond belief and the technique simply doesn't work in any game I DM.

If your campaign is all cheesy overpowered and broken builds with wizards with hundreds of wish generated simulacrums ... then go for it. If the other players and the DM are onside with the idea then go for it. Otherwise, I think using a coffeelock is likely to cause more problems than it is worth.

P.S. When you describe the character to the DM, if the DM knows what a coffee lock is and approves it then fine ... but if they don't understand the implications then it is up to you to explain it clearly so they can make an informed decision as to whether this character should be allowed in the current game. (You didn't mention whether the other players are all experienced or if they are new to the game ... are they playing min/max characters or role playing? All of this could affect whether the character would fit or not ... bottom line ... talk to the DM or the DM may decide to ban the character after seeing it in action or feel bad for approving it in the first place when other players start complaining).

[Cry Havoc]

Didnt something come out recently that made the Coffeelock no longer work via RAW?

And is your DM the kind of DM that will just sit passively by while you attempt to game the Rest mechanism?

I wouldnt, but maybe that's just me. I personally loathe players that try and game the system (bag-o-rats, Im looking at you). I'd just nope it to death.

[Nerdguy88]

I appreciate everyones concern with my DM and as I said previously I run everything by the GM. This thread is just trying to find spells/feats that I can use to help my party. As i've said I'm trying to do everything I can to make everyone else shine.

[Nerdguy88]

Didnt something come out recently that made the Coffeelock no longer work via RAW?

I suppose it depends on your DMs interpretation of the rule. It just says if you go without sleep during a long rest you can become exhausted and I think it keeps getting worse the longer you go. If I have an ability that says 'you no longer require sleep' then does not sleeping effect me?

[Nerdguy88]

And is your DM the kind of DM that will just sit passively by while you attempt to game the Rest mechanism?

I wouldnt, but maybe that's just me. I personally loathe players that try and game the system (bag-o-rats, Im looking at you). I'd just nope it to death.

Alright so this isn't my first time playing Sorcerer/Warlock. However it is just now my first time realizing how broken the class truly is and why everyone is saying to talk to the DM. I was under the impression the sorcerers points could be used to refresh spell slots you had already spent. After doing a little more reading I have learned that they in fact create a new spell slots all together and they stay until a long rest. I did not realize it was that broken. I will go over this with my DM and find a way to limit it.

With that being said I still need to find more fun spells for the party :)

[Keravath]

Alright so this isn't my first time playing Sorcerer/Warlock. However it is just now my first time realizing how broken the class truly is and why everyone is saying to talk to the DM. I was under the impression the sorcerers points could be used to refresh spell slots you had already spent. After doing a little more reading I have learned that they in fact create a new spell slots all together and they stay until a long rest. I did not realize it was that broken. I will go over this with my DM and find a way to limit it.

With that being said I still need to find more fun spells for the party :)

Just a quick comment. Sorcerer/warlock can be powerful, mostly for agonizing blast shenanigans when combined with quicken starting at about level 8-9 when the sorcerer has enough spell points and slots to keep it going over a few combats. However, it isn't broken, just focused and a bit powerful, but it doesn't really get going until 11th level.

The coffeelock on the other hand, with infinite spell slots due to manipulation of the rest mechanism, taking multiple short rests instead of long ones and interpreting the character not needing to sleep to be the equivalent of not needing a long rest (which isn't exactly what the Xanathar's version says) is, in my opinion :), broken.

However, if you want to play a sorlock with supportive spell and feat selection ...

- Inspiring leader feat for the temporary hit points for the party

- Divine soul sorcerer for twinned healing word when a couple of party members drop in the same round ... followed by agonizing blast for good measure
- twinned haste
- twinned protection from good and evil - great against undead and fiends etc
- twinned blindness (no concetration)
- twinned level 2 hold person (though you can upcast for additional targets - you can't twin it then)
- various other single target buffs that can be twinned
- twinned banishment (to try to dismiss two opponents at the same time - or heighten instead for that one critical target)
- hypnotic pattern can be a good crown control spell - could heighten it against the toughest creature
- twin hold monster or dominate monster (but these are getting very expensive in sorcery points and mostly late game)
- twin dissonant whispers if you happen to be a GOO warlock

There are also a number of spells you can just quicken and follow up with agonizing blast to do some damage on the same turn.

Also consider picking up repelling blast in addition to agonizing blast since you can push enemies away from your casters giving them a chance to cast instead of disengage or take an op attack.

However, keep in mind that once you have your buff/debuff/crowd control concentration spell in place, you will likely be using eldritch blast the rest of the time to add some damage (and there is nothing wrong with that). The most supportive characters are the ones that can both limit the attacking creatures AND help kill them as quickly as possible.

[Nerdguy88]

Just a quick comment. Sorcerer/warlock can be powerful, mostly for agonizing blast shenanigans when combined with quicken starting at about level 8-9 when the sorcerer has enough spell points and slots to keep it going over a few combats. However, it isn't broken, just focused and a bit powerful, but it doesn't really get going until 11th level.

And thats what I did in our other campaign. Using devil sight to get advantage on attack rolls I did a lot of damage! It was a ton of fun.


The coffeelock on the other hand, with infinite spell slots due to manipulation of the rest mechanism, taking multiple short rests instead of long ones and interpreting the character not needing to sleep to be the equivalent of not needing a long rest (which isn't exactly what the Xanathar's version says) is, in my opinion :), broken.

I had not actually thought of it this way. That just means every few days I still might need to stop and relax :)


*Snip about divine soul*

Ya I talked with my DM about what the coffeelock could do. He actually thought the idea of me being a divine soul instead of a Aberrant Mind would be great. He liked the idea of a character that is kinda OP but runs around buffing and healing everyone!


Also consider picking up repelling blast in addition to agonizing blast since you can push enemies away from your casters giving them a chance to cast instead of disengage or take an op attack.

I had planned to take Book of Ancient Secrets and Aspect of the Moon as my two invocations. I liked not sleeping so I could stand watch at nights. Especially since I have the highest perception of the entire party. Ill consider those though