Test of Constitution, Test of Charisma

[WarrentheHero]

Somewhat central to the campaign I am currently running is a series of Challenges based on the 6 Ability Scores, given out by otherworldly patrons. The players have already failed one test, and a rival adventuring group has already claimed the Strength test. I have the Dexterity Challenge pretty much set- a heist involving picking locks, pockets, and stealth, and am working on ideas for the Intelligence challenge.

But what I don't have many good ideas for are tests for Constitution and Charisma. The Challenges can occur pretty much anywhere, in a city, town, or wilderness setting. The players need only seek out the test-giver and then the test can happen anywhere else. I've sort of tossed around the idea of the Constitution test being to slay a powerful creature with only martial ability- no spells allowed. But I'm not sure if that really satisfies the archetype of endurance. It almost feels like more of a Strength thing? the casters in the party have a pretty strong Martial streak, all with a multiclass or racial ability to use weapons and/or armor. But I still would feel kind of bad about ripping an otherwise full caster's spell out from under them. Perhaps allow buff/utility/heal spells? I'm just unsure.

As for Charisma, I have no idea whatsoever. We all know the main uses of the Charisma skills, but how to make that into a fitting challenge, one roughly equivalent to the rolls and difficulty of a combat encounter? The Challenges are constructed, but happen in the world, so the idea of saying "just gimme a speech" doesn't feel right. If something happens to incite a mob, the patron might give the task of calming them, sure, but otherwise I am unsure of what to throw at them.

For both of these challenges, it is not necessary that all checks or actions taken be strictly limited to the Ability Score associated with that channel. For example, the aforementioned heist for the Dexterity Challenge may involve or even require Persuasion or Deception to get past guards, Athletics to break down a barrier, Investigation to solve a puzzle, something like that.

TL;DR What can I do for Challenges that revolve around (but are not limited to) Ability Scores, specifically Constitution and Charisma? The can be skill challenges, combat encounters, a mix of both, but they aren't exams- they don't take place solely in the patron's presence or in a wholly artificial setting

[DevilMcam]

I had one endurance test to pass once.

I was dropped but naked in the snow at dawn and had to go back to the village before dusk. facing whatver threat was out there in the way I could.


For charisma you could have to "win the heart of a princess" during a tourney, involving defeating competitors wIth style and wooing the lady (may or may not be cheated by killing the princess and bringing her heart to the patrons).
Or you could have to be given X amount of whealth by commoners (willingly) so you'd perform in the streets, fight in pits for fame, ...

[DwarfDM]

The constitution test:
A series of challenges whilst under the influence of alcohol and narcotics.
Like driving a horse, walking in a straight line and saying the ABC backwards.

The charisma test:
A tallent show build around performance, rap battles and seducing dragons.

[Mr Adventurer]

Constitution could be a long distance journey without proper supplies.

Charisma could be safely negotiating your way through an Unseelie Court party

[BurgerBeast]

Constitution: a prolonged wilderness journey through the harshest of climes, with no proper places to rest so that exhaustion becomes the concern.

Charisma: (1) having to win a game somewhat like the TV show Survivor (2) gladiatorial games in which the idea is to win the crowd (not necessarily to win the fight) using a crowd-meter for narrative feedback during the games (took this from the Angry GM)

[MoiMagnus]

A constitution challenge should be about resisting to some poison/starvation/environment/...
A drinking contest is the most casual example, but is quite artificial. A journey through a land that suck life or is full of poisoned gas of some kind works well. The combat encounters in this journey should not be difficult and should only be designed to deplete resources and waste in-universe time.
[Though be cautious, it can easily become a Survival (Wisdom) challenge, or a "have the good spell to make it trivial" challenge]

As a charisma challenge, I imagine undoing a trial of some kind. There was a very important trial a long time ago where the suspect was found guilty, but later proofs showed he was innocent (so the investigation is mostly already done). The challenge is to manage to convince everyone from the first trial (or their heir) to accept to be part of the new trial to overturn the decision. (The challenge will require diplomacy, bribery, blackmail, ... Plus making some convincing arguments at the trial itself)

[Lvl45DM!]

Somewhat central to the campaign I am currently running is a series of Challenges based on the 6 Ability Scores, given out by otherworldly patrons. The players have already failed one test, and a rival adventuring group has already claimed the Strength test. I have the Dexterity Challenge pretty much set- a heist involving picking locks, pockets, and stealth, and am working on ideas for the Intelligence challenge.

But what I don't have many good ideas for are tests for Constitution and Charisma. The Challenges can occur pretty much anywhere, in a city, town, or wilderness setting. The players need only seek out the test-giver and then the test can happen anywhere else. I've sort of tossed around the idea of the Constitution test being to slay a powerful creature with only martial ability- no spells allowed. But I'm not sure if that really satisfies the archetype of endurance. It almost feels like more of a Strength thing? the casters in the party have a pretty strong Martial streak, all with a multiclass or racial ability to use weapons and/or armor. But I still would feel kind of bad about ripping an otherwise full caster's spell out from under them. Perhaps allow buff/utility/heal spells? I'm just unsure.

As for Charisma, I have no idea whatsoever. We all know the main uses of the Charisma skills, but how to make that into a fitting challenge, one roughly equivalent to the rolls and difficulty of a combat encounter? The Challenges are constructed, but happen in the world, so the idea of saying "just gimme a speech" doesn't feel right. If something happens to incite a mob, the patron might give the task of calming them, sure, but otherwise I am unsure of what to throw at them.

For both of these challenges, it is not necessary that all checks or actions taken be strictly limited to the Ability Score associated with that channel. For example, the aforementioned heist for the Dexterity Challenge may involve or even require Persuasion or Deception to get past guards, Athletics to break down a barrier, Investigation to solve a puzzle, something like that.

TL;DR What can I do for Challenges that revolve around (but are not limited to) Ability Scores, specifically Constitution and Charisma? The can be skill challenges, combat encounters, a mix of both, but they aren't exams- they don't take place solely in the patron's presence or in a wholly artificial setting

Charisma could be them doing a live performance. Athletics checks for the roadies, Insight into the crowd, Acrobatics for juggling and feats of skill, and of course, Performance, Persuasion and Deception to make the music, acting and warm up acts work

[dancrilis]

My suggestions:

Constitution: You could have the quest giver be difficult to locate and then difficult to get to. So the characters have to display mental fortitude (to find the location) and physical fortitude (to reach the location) - then if they do the quest giver merely lets them know they have passed.

Charisma: Make the quest giver be significantly more powerful then the party and seemingly at odds with them - if they are good the quest giver might appear evil etc, and have them have to negotiate not merely with a check but to actually convince the quest giver to give up the offensive part of what they are considering.
For instance the quest giver is a dragon that is considering devastating the countryside (maybe for a feast, or because adventurers tried to kill it and they feel disrespected) - the characters have to find out 'why' and then find another way of convincing the dragon not to engage (tribute from villages in the form of cattle i.e dinner, apology) - so that they need not merely to convince the quest giver to choose the path of dialogue over violence, they must convince local villages also, leaving all feeling that discussion is better then war.

[Keravath]

My main question is what do the tests prove?

Do you want tests that the players can come up with ideas to try to solve? Or are you looking at the party trying to succeed at a series of skill checks with success determined by luck alone?

My suggestion would be to design a challenge where players can earn advantage as well as static bonuses (+1,+2,+3) to the die roll by coming up with ideas to overcome the challenge.

e.g. endurance challenge - dropped on one side of a pass wearing only a loin cloth and need to make it through the mountains, over the pass, and arrive at the destination village. It takes 7 days, constitution save each day resulting in a level of exhaustion if failed. However, the characters can earn "+" to the save or advantage by taking advantage of terrain, finding safer places to stay, crafting improvised weapons like clubs and staves or possibly a spear (to start with), finding food (fishing with spear?), finding chert or obsidian to sharpen sticks, create warm clothing from animal skins for going over the pass, huddling together for warmth, finding fresh water, coming up with an idea of how to transport it.

The party could just try walking to the destination and do nothing ... they might succeed ... but every task they undertake to make survival more likely adds a bonus to the con save they have to make at the end of the day.

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Charisma and negotiation would be the same. Take certain actions or do certain things to make the DC easier. Perhaps the goal is to convince a tribe of orcs to leave the local human village alone without killing a single orc. The characters need to find out why the orcs are attacking, have an open mind, solve the issues the orcs have and open a path to a peaceful resolution.

The final checks for either of these should not be dependent on a specific skill. For example, if you make the negotiation final result dependent on a persuasion or charisma check directly then certain classes and characters will have a huge advantage. (eg a lore bard with expertise in persuasion is going to have a much easier time than a half orc barbarian with neither charisma or persuasion ... but ideally you want the test to be somewhat skill agnostic so that it requires the characters/players to take actions to increase the likelihood of success). For example, a bard who walks into the orc village with a high persuasion skill and tries to just talk them into leaving automatically fails because they have not dealt with the underlying issues that are driving the orcs to attack the humans - no matter how well they roll, they fail the test of charisma because until the issues are dealt with it is impossible to succeed at the check).

[Man_Over_Game]

A constitution challenge should be about resisting to some poison/starvation/environment/...
A drinking contest is the most casual example, but is quite artificial.

I think that it'd work out quite well. Imagine a Patron of Debauchery challenging you to a night on the town! He challenges you to drinking contests where you partake in delicacies that even locals consider a challenge, enjoying the company of women from other dimensions, food that fights you while you eat it. While wasted, he offers to continue the party at one of his local hangouts, which happens to be trapped to the teeth with Illusion spells and toxic gasses.

The goal isn't to win. The goal is to endure. Or, at least, attempt to. You succeed simply by never giving up, the true test of Endurance. Quit, and you wake up with a hangover that lasts a week.

[Telok]

For constitution you can run a marathon using the chase rules in the DMG.

[Xapi]

For constitution, you can have a long series of encounters that are individually easy but taxing on resources, and have the foes use poison, specially early on, and not allow resting (or allow it at predetermined points).

[Tawmis]

As for Charisma, I have no idea whatsoever. We all know the main uses of the Charisma skills, but how to make that into a fitting challenge, one roughly equivalent to the rolls and difficulty of a combat encounter? The Challenges are constructed, but happen in the world, so the idea of saying "just gimme a speech" doesn't feel right. If something happens to incite a mob, the patron might give the task of calming them, sure, but otherwise I am unsure of what to throw at them.


Charisma could be fun.

There are three items scattered between three people.

One, you must intimidate to get the item. One you must get it so that they are willingly persuaded to give it to you.

And the third is an item owned by a shop keeper - how you get this - whether through intimidation or persuasion is entirely up to you.

Make said store keeper hearing impaired so that they need to get creative with how to sway the person. Make it an older man or woman. So they feel guilty using force, maybe?

[Crucius]

Lots of good ideas already so I'm not going to repeat that.

Constitution: Concentration is a big constitution thing, and it's the closest to any constitution-skill I can think of. Have them concentrate on something, filling their 'concentration slot' (also for non-casters) and have them do a set of challenges, and for every failure they have to make a concentration check/save.
The episode where Zuko and Aang have to climb up the mountain while maintaining a flame. Concentrating on it you could say hmmmmmmmm

Charisma: Have them charm the patron themselves! Have a debate on some otherworldly topic, conversing through raw emotion, dishing out charisma checks and passing insight rolls to not fall for the charm and wit of the patron. It could be a nice vessel to deliver some exposition from the patron to the party, should you have need for such an occasion.

[greenstone]

In the Al Pacino and Colin Farrell movie "The Recruit", the CIA trainer gives the trainee the following challenge.

*Points to a random balcony in an apartment building*
"In five minutes, I want to see you on that balcony, having tea with the person who lives there."

Seems like a great Charisma challenge.

[ecarden]

Charisma:

A year ago a famous bard composed a song which mocked a local powerful figure and sang it to their face. The figure had their troops capture the bard, cut out their tongue and cripple them, then released them as an example (and to draw out any other enemies they might have). The bard's students whisked them away, but are unable to have the injuries repaired. Three of the students were captured. Two have been tortured to death, but refused to answer where the bard is being taken.

Your task is to locate the bard (who is obviously hidden from scrying and other basic magical means of detecting) and convince them to recreate the song which got them crippled for distribution to everyone literate. Depending on how this is given, they might be given a direction to someone who knows something, or they might need to talk their way into the prison/talk the remaining prisoner out.

Constitution:

I definitely think there's something to the mental and physical toughness aspect mentioned above. Depending on how your players are, maybe something pretty simple (I may be stealing this from somewhere, I remember seeing something similar discussed):

An apparently endless staircase appears, polished marble, three feet wide, with neither banister nor supports. But by each step is a bell-pull which goes to no visible bell, but has a small sign with "I have failed," written on it.

"Endure the climb," says the patron.

A couple of constitution (athletics) checks to determine how long it gets to the second part and determine if they're exhausted when they get there. Perception check for everyone after enough time has passed (remember disadvantage for the exhausted).

For those who succeed:

"You notice writing appears on the next step as your foot begins to approach. It reads, 'Endure the pain.'"

Each step after that does 1d6 radiant damage.

Perception check:

"Endure without rest."

Each step and they lose one HD. Anyone who doesn't have any HD remaining takes a HD worth of damage.

Perception check:

"Endure poverty."

Each step and they lose gold (choose an amount appropriate to your campaign) if they have no gold, they lose HP equal to the gold loss.

Perception check:

"Endure your fears."

Each step shows them what they fear, increasing up from scary spiders, to battles they were knocked unconscious in to whatever their worse fear is (ask the players in advance, the terror makes it sweeter).

Perception check:

"Endure the loss of what you love most."

This one is hard to define and may be overkill for your group, but it might be an item, it might be a relationship (if so, don't kill them, they just either forget the PC, or lose whatever made the relationship special--'sorry, don't feel the same way anymore'). If you want to be really mean, switch it to "Sacrifice what you love most," and make them choose.

[Segev]

For the Test of Constitution, put the test-giver in a hard-to-reach spot, with many hardships that must be endured to get there. When they reach him, have him dispel any spells on them after demanding they hand over all their gear. He then hands them a kit with next to nothing to help them survive. "The test begins now," he says, vanishing. "It ends," his voice echoes from nowhere and everywhere, "when you get back home."

You could link the Test of Charisma to this: the test-giver knows the secret location of the Constitution Test-Giver, but adamantly refuses to tell the party. They need to persuade, trick, or cajole the information out of him.