You find a dragon's hoard. How do you carry it all?

[Odessa333]

Hey all!


So a silly topic perhaps, but in one of my games I'm playing Rise of Dragons, and as you might expect, there's a couple of dragons in it. We're nearing the end of it, and it's been hyped that there is a lot of treasure in this place. Wagons upon wagons of treasure. Obviously, more than my half elf can carry herself. So I'm brainstorming ways to get as much loot as possible as quickly as possible. My current plan for my character is below:



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Now, we just hit level 11 before the assault. I'm a lore bard 9 / Hexblade 1, and I'm taking bard 10 now for two more magical secrets. My current thought is switching one of my spells for teleportation circle, and using one of my magical secrets for conjure wood beings (I've talked to the DM, and they are ok with me picking pixies as long as I don't break every combat with it). So my plan right now is if/when we find the hoard, I can cast conjure woodland beings for 8 pixies, and polymorph them into something big/strong. I load them up with as much loot as possible, cast teleportation circle, and send them through the portal with the loot to my friend on the other side. I can then repeat this, using another casting of conjure woodland beings, and teleportation circle, to get 16 polymorphed creatures to deliver as much loot as they can carry. I could even cast conjure woodland beings a third time and try to have the pixies fly out with some loot while invisible, though that is obviously riskier.


Oh, of note, I have a bag of holding and broom of flying to help carry things as well, to try and maximize operation: steal dragon's hoard.



The biggest issue I see with this is time. I can bring plenty of empty bags with me to fill, but filling them will take time we might not have. I'm looking over my magical secret options, see if there's anything that could help with that, but nothing jumps out at me.


Also, I'm also not sure sure what forms might work best for the pixie's. Suggestions there would be most welcome.

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Anywho, that's my current plan. While I'd love help on min/maxing my own plan, I admit I'm curious to how others would go about this problem, regardless of class/level. I'd love to hear some creative tales, and see if I can refine my own plan while I'm at it ;)

[KorvinStarmast]

You find a dragon's hoard. How do you carry it all?
We didn't. We picked out the best items and gems, and then figured out how much gold/platinum/electrum we wanted. We left the copper and silver and a few of the art objects for the local peasants/miners/farmers.

[Mikal]

Well the current group I play in has a wagon with a couple horses pulling it, so we had it somewhat easy when it came to removing the horde when we fought one.

Even with that though, we had to prioritize a little. The likely higher value items first (magic items, gems, platinum, gold), followed by the lower item things if taking them was better per pound (i.e. is this item we carry with us worth more or less than 50cp or 50 sp per pound when broken down that way?)

[dancrilis]

Why take the dragons hoard with you?

If the dragon was sensible and its hoard is so vast as to be a problem to carry then the lair is probably placed at a strategically defensible position, but also close enough to ready food and water sources etc.

Build the makings of a trading post on top of its lair (the area is likely under served due to recent dragon activity) that way you can retain the hoard securely, have an an easy business for generating basic maintance (and happilly hide the fact that you have a hoard), and in time if you desire begin to levy charges on the trade that occurs in the trading post (keep costs down so you can undercut your competition)- centuries from now your characters could be known as the first rulers of 'Insert Name of Inn' as your outpost becomes a triving city dominating the surrounding lands - any elves or the like could still be running it.

[yellowrocket]

Dan hit it on the head.

You dont move it. You make goods come to you. You build a trading post not on top of it, but near by. A few gold here a piece if art suddenly appears on your walls. Oh someone likes it enough to buy it. Sure. You go ahead and sell that and replace it with another piece. You become known as a patron of the arts. Both artistic and maybe even magic arts.

Suddenly people are interested in you. You gain soft power. You dont want to rule after all. Youre just influencing things by having money and having various rules take an interest in you. And as adventurers youre capable and paranoid enough to keep your wealth. You can now begin to offer quests to your next character.

[Damon_Tor]

Conjure Animals -> Oxen is a more efficient use of your spell slots than Conjure Woodland Beings -> Pixies -> Polymorph -> Oxen. Though the fact that either spell only lasts an hour means you aren't going to get very far. Oxen should be common enough in the world that you should be able to buy several with little trouble, plus wagons. Then use Animal Friendship and Speak With Animals if your DM is being a pain about driving the oxen.

Each ox can carry 1080 pounds or pull 5400 pounds in a wagon.

Now the biggest problem is protecting your treasure as you get it from the dragon's lair to wherever you intend to store it.

[Mikal]

Why take the dragons hoard with you?

If the dragon was sensible and its hoard is so vast as to be a problem to carry then the lair is probably placed at a strategically defensible position, but also close enough to ready food and water sources etc.

Build the makings of a trading post on top of its lair (the area is likely under served due to recent dragon activity) that way you can retain the hoard securely, have an an easy business for generating basic maintance (and happilly hide the fact that you have a hoard), and in time if you desire begin to levy charges on the trade that occurs in the trading post (keep costs down so you can undercut your competition)- centuries from now your characters could be known as the first rulers of 'Insert Name of Inn' as your outpost becomes a triving city dominating the surrounding lands - any elves or the like could still be running it.

Gotta disagree with this one. Lots of times the dragon puts their lair in a very out of the way spot, and sometimes one that's not very useful for people.

Black Dragons and swamps and Red Dragons high in the mountains are two I can think of off hand.

[nickl_2000]

The last time? DM Hand wave (not very useful, but it's what we did)

[yellowrocket]

Gotta disagree with this one. Lots of times the dragon puts their lair in a very out of the way spot, and sometimes one that's not very useful for people.

Black Dragons and swamps and Red Dragons high in the mountains are two I can think of off hand.

This is why i suggested not building right on top of your hoard. But the sudden appearance of wealth in a city would be noticed quickly by the power players. Besides where would you take a hoard? Just like money laundering, you never move enough to get noticed. You do things like invest businesses. You trade items between multiple cities. As known adventurers you can both charge a premium, and undercut the competition in trade because you will only be paying for yourselves not additional hired help. And you spend elsewhere. So youre making contacts. Finding new ways to multiply your wealth and train your descendants. Oh and invest in those beyond hard to get magical items. Someone will have connections to commision expensive intensive custom magical items.

And you're still sitting on a pile of wealth to spend on the day to day costs as well.

[elyktsorb]

Give the gold to a new dragon in effort to help rehabilitate dragons suffering from gold loss.

[Kobold_paladin?]

Have a conveniently located bag of holding. it's perfect, but if you don't have one on hand divide the best loot among you guys and donate the rest to a weak or powerful faction. maybe a dwarf clan or metallic dragon. you could get the good loot AND powerful allies.
maybe even some inspiration or XP even. neh?

[Mikal]

This is why i suggested not building right on top of your hoard. But the sudden appearance of wealth in a city would be noticed quickly by the power players. Besides where would you take a hoard? Just like money laundering, you never move enough to get noticed. You do things like invest businesses. You trade items between multiple cities. As known adventurers you can both charge a premium, and undercut the competition in trade because you will only be paying for yourselves not additional hired help. And you spend elsewhere. So youre making contacts. Finding new ways to multiply your wealth and train your descendants. Oh and invest in those beyond hard to get magical items. Someone will have connections to commision expensive intensive custom magical items.

And you're still sitting on a pile of wealth to spend on the day to day costs as well.

Yeah, no. That's just a good way for your own horde to get robbed.
I agree it's good to invest it and get rid of it. I disagree about not wanting to do it all at once. Get rid of it, buy some titles of nobility. Finish that magic spell research you wanted. Buy that holy avenger.

Just sitting on it is useless, and opening a business just to keep an eye on it is too convoluted, especially if the lair is nowhere nearby any place to actually place your smokescreen that may or may not actually cost you more in the long run to keep open.

[Evaar]

Demiplane.

[dancrilis]

Gotta disagree with this one. Lots of times the dragon puts their lair in a very out of the way spot, and sometimes one that's not very useful for people.

Black Dragons and swamps and Red Dragons high in the mountains are two I can think of off hand.

It does to an extend depend on geography - but there is nothing wrong with a mountain fortress/underground swamp base (if you can maintain it).

[Nifft]

I'd just take the silmaril, and then blackmail some nearby dwarves to do all the hard work of hauling out the heavy gold and gems.


In ye olde D&D, when we got XP for treasure hauled, the players came up with things like the Portable Hole and tenser's floating disc to solve this precise problem.

Those two are still useful, especially the portable hole. If you have one of those, fill it with gold and teleport somewhere you can use that gold to buy more holes.

One floating disc carries 500 lbs and it's a Ritual, so you could move for 1 hour -> cast for 10 minutes -> move for 1 hour -> cast for 10 minutes, etc. until you reach your destination.

[Samayu]

A magical portal leading to your stronghold is the only way to get it back home without anybody knowing you have tons of loot. Because once they do, you're a sitting duck. You're going to spend half your hoard just on security.

But... no DM will give a bunch of 11th level characters this kind of treasure without an ulterior motive. It's likely to be a plot point. So go ahead and make your plan, but don't be surprised to learn it's not necessary.

[sambojin]

Be a lvl10 Firbolg Moon Druid. With 9 Str (dump stat). Put treasure required onto one liftable platform. About one tonne thereof.

Cast Enhance Ability (Bull's Strength) on yourself. Get a Wizard to cast Enlarge on you.

You can now comfortably carry 9Str x2(firbolg) x2(e.ability) x2(enlarge) x15lbs. So 1080lbs. But you can lift 2160lbs, as max lift, with advantage if there's a roll to try. You're also large sized, so even if the platform is pretty big, it isn't a problem.

Lift the platform. Wildshape into a Giant Constrictor Snake. Meld all the valuables, including the platform you're carrying, inside you.

You can now comfortably carry 19Str x2(firbolg) x2(large) x2(huge) x15lbs. So 2280lbs. As basic carry. Even when the spells go down a minute or hour later.

Slither out of there, with a tonne of ill-gotten gains, discreetly hidden in wildspace. Possibly with an extra tonne of stuff strapped to you for the next hour or so due to enhance ability. Whatever, your wildshape lasts five hours anyway, and you've got a second charge of it if you don't want to take a short rest as well...


(if there's less choice valuables than a tonne, you can carry a third of a tonne of treasure as an air elemental, with a 90' fly speed, that can go through most obstacles or creatures, and can't be made to stop flying by conditions/ some spells, discreetly, for five hours, once per short rest)

((it's a not-often talked about secondary capstone for moon druids at 18th lvl. You can be a CR6 brachiosaurus. They can carry 2880lbs by default. So, well over a tonne. Inside themselves))

[Tanarii]

We didn't. We picked out the best items and gems, and then figured out how much gold/platinum/electrum we wanted. We left the copper and silver and a few of the art objects for the local peasants/miners/farmers.
Is it in separate piles already or did you spend hours sorting it out?

[Zhorn]

Situations like this are a big reason why the party should aim for getting:
A base of their own
The ability to cast teleportation circle
Have a permanent teleportation circle established in their base
As soon as possible.
As the team wizard in my current group, this is my responsibility.

[BarneyBent]

Well, one option would be to take Transmute Rock. Basically, pick out the most valuable treasure that would fit into half a 40ft cube and lay it on some rock (assuming there is some) and turn it into mud using the spell. Allow it to sink into the mud, then cast Transmute Rock again to turn it into stone, binding the treasure there.

Then come back later with a better plan for transporting all this ****.

Might be a waste of a spell known though. Seriously taking the most valuable and easily transportable stuff should give you more than enough gold to go on with.

[FabulousFizban]

What level is teleportation circle?

[Democratus]

"Wagons upon wagons" of treasure. You have the answer right there. :smallsmile:

When we go on an adventure that we suspect is going to have a huge haul, we hire a baggage train. Wagons, mules, porters...whatever is appropriate for the terrain.

This accomplishes a couple of things:

1) Allows us to carry massive amounts of supplies in and treasure out

2) Creates more story opportunities for the DM as we try to get our treasure back home.

[KorvinStarmast]

Is it in separate piles already or did you spend hours sorting it out? We took a short rest, for the PC's who needed one. Two others began the vetting proces. The DM allowed as how it would take a few hours to sort things out. He rolled a 1d4 and came up with a 2. I think either the Wizard or the AT cast TFD.

[OldTrees1]

Depends on the edition. In 5E, just take a sack per person, fill it with gems & platinum pieces. Top it off with gold pieces. That is less than 30lbs per person and should be a fortune. Not much need for gold in 5E.

[Tanarii]

We took a short rest, for the PC's who needed one. Two others began the vetting proces. The DM allowed as how it would take a few hours to sort things out. He rolled a 1d4 and came up with a 2. I think either the Wizard or the AT cast TFD.
Now I want to sort a pickle jar of coins and try and estimate the actual time. My assumption is a couple of hundred mixed coins would take over an hour for one person to sort out. And a couple of of thousand might take a day. So several for tens of thousands.

[Mellack]

Now I want to sort a pickle jar of coins and try and estimate the actual time. My assumption is a couple of hundred mixed coins would take over an hour for one person to sort out. And a couple of of thousand might take a day. So several for tens of thousands.

If you are just throwing them into different buckets, rather than counting, I wouldn't expect it to take nearly that long. Honestly, I would think maybe around a second per coin.

I just did a test. Grabbed a handful out of my coin bucket. It took me 1 minute 14 seconds to separate out 63 coins, with only one error (damn nickels). So 1.17 seconds a coin. Lets round that up to 1.5 for grabbing more coins and maybe slowing down from having to do it continuously. One hour would let me sort 2400 coins. Saying 2000 coins per person per hour seem very doable.

[Tanarii]

Players rarely remember to buy sacks. I can't see them toting buckets all that often, :smallamused:

[LordCdrMilitant]

Hey all!


So a silly topic perhaps, but in one of my games I'm playing Rise of Dragons, and as you might expect, there's a couple of dragons in it. We're nearing the end of it, and it's been hyped that there is a lot of treasure in this place. Wagons upon wagons of treasure. Obviously, more than my half elf can carry herself. So I'm brainstorming ways to get as much loot as possible as quickly as possible. My current plan for my character is below:



-------------------------------------------------------

Now, we just hit level 11 before the assault. I'm a lore bard 9 / Hexblade 1, and I'm taking bard 10 now for two more magical secrets. My current thought is switching one of my spells for teleportation circle, and using one of my magical secrets for conjure wood beings (I've talked to the DM, and they are ok with me picking pixies as long as I don't break every combat with it). So my plan right now is if/when we find the hoard, I can cast conjure woodland beings for 8 pixies, and polymorph them into something big/strong. I load them up with as much loot as possible, cast teleportation circle, and send them through the portal with the loot to my friend on the other side. I can then repeat this, using another casting of conjure woodland beings, and teleportation circle, to get 16 polymorphed creatures to deliver as much loot as they can carry. I could even cast conjure woodland beings a third time and try to have the pixies fly out with some loot while invisible, though that is obviously riskier.


Oh, of note, I have a bag of holding and broom of flying to help carry things as well, to try and maximize operation: steal dragon's hoard.



The biggest issue I see with this is time. I can bring plenty of empty bags with me to fill, but filling them will take time we might not have. I'm looking over my magical secret options, see if there's anything that could help with that, but nothing jumps out at me.


Also, I'm also not sure sure what forms might work best for the pixie's. Suggestions there would be most welcome.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



Anywho, that's my current plan. While I'd love help on min/maxing my own plan, I admit I'm curious to how others would go about this problem, regardless of class/level. I'd love to hear some creative tales, and see if I can refine my own plan while I'm at it ;)

Uhh, depends on how many players and how much treasure.

At level 11, an average hoard as per the DMG is approximately 63lb and 20000GP. Even if the dragon has a bunch of such hoards of treasure, odds are you can carry it all out at once.
That said, the previous level's treasure hoards [level 10] are 200lb and 4000GP each, which might present more difficultly, especially if the GM is awarding your "level 11 wealth by level" [yes, 5e doesn't have wealth by level, but there is an approximate hoards/level guideline and WBL was always a guideline anyway] which would be in level 10 hoards [the guideline is approximately 18 such hoards between levels 5 and 11, so about 3 per level but YMMV].

In this case, your best possible solution is definitely loading up a creature with gold and teleportation circling it out. Theoretically, if you're near enough the outside, you could DDoor the creature back and forth a couple of times to a wagon train to unload it and haul it back to town.

Polymorph and Conjure Woodland Beings both require Concentration, so it doesn't actually work. You could, however, conjure a pack of wolves with conjure beasts [or blink dogs with conjure woodland beings, which are CR 1/4 Fey Creatures], each of which can carry 180 lbs for a total of 1440lbs teleported out per casting [which should cover almost any reasonably expected hoard-of-hoards, especially if you do it twice]. Make sure to remember to bring doggie backpacks to use to load them up with, otherwise they can't carry anything ;)
As a side note, if your party has one or more S20 Martials, you could cast "Enhance Ability: Strength" on them to get them to carry capacity 600lbs for an hour, and then teleport them out. Even one such casting should cover several level 5-10 hoards.

[Yakk]

First search for a teleportation circle. If there is one, you have a 2 way link!

Second, split magic items off. Identify as many as you can. Some could help.

Third, use pixies to polymorph your allies into mammoths. A wagon+mammoth is 3+ tonnes of capacity. You can get simpler and build travois as well (sliding wagon). Send the polymorphed PC mammoths through the teleportation circle.

A bag of holding can hold 2 wagons. A porable hole more if you partially disassemble them.

[The Shoeless]

Tensers Floating Disk, all day long. I love this spell. Depending on how lenient your DM is on how the disks move with you, you can have seven or more disks follow you at the same time, for 3,500 lb of additional hauling for about an hour. As a 10th level bard, you can do this twice per day with your spell slots, or more times if your share of the treasure is lighter.

As the disks follow you at your speed at a distance of 20ft, and with your broom of flying, you can travel a bit less than 60,000 ft per hour, you can move 840,000 ft per 500 lb of treasure per day. Mind gaps, chasms and rivers though, the DM might throw some puzzles at you :smallbiggrin:

[diplomancer]

A Forge Cleric helps, though it may take him a while. Even more if the DM allows him to craft rings worth 100 GP, but lighter than coins (due to craftsmanship, or with relatively inexpensive gemstones, which the channel divinity provides for).