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View Full Version : Roleplaying What Does a Summons Get Out of the Deal? (Any system, but I mainly play PF1)



lostsole31
2020-06-12, 12:58 AM
So, my philosophy on summonings. Not eidolon, because they come built for that assumed relationship, not even called .... because that is definitely the actual creature itself (which is why they are usually quite testy at any alignment for having been called). Also, not quasi-summoned creatures like an astral construct (which is constructed on the spot out of ectoplasm, and are mindless), or summons that take on more of being a spell effect than an actual "creature."

I absolutely do not believe that a 1st-level conjurer can actually create life down to the nth degree. Even once they get to a level where the summons are sapient creatures (above animal inteligence), it is laughable to think a conjurer has that ability, especially if they haven't learned the language the summoned knows, or even put enough ranks to truly understand the workings of a creature down to the very atomic and absolute metaphysical level, especially if they haven't maxed out all necessary Knowledge skills and taken every summonably-related language.

No, as a gamer my long-term philosophy is that these summons actually are not spontaneously created proto-life, facsimiles of the creatures they represent, but rather "living" creatures that do exist elsewhere. Or rather, almost complete life-avatars of those lives that exist elsewhere.

I remember many years ago Rich Burlew even made a comic about it. Two fancy, bipedal celestial dogs with robes and a monocles were sipping wine in a library. Next panel, there was a *POOF!* as one disappeared. Next panel was the celestial dog - but on all fours like a dog - having been summoned for a battle. Finally, *POOF!* and he was back sipping wine again, having a meta discussion about the whole affair.

Now, that is a comical view of things, of course, but the whole basis of conjuration came from the idea of making pacts and special contacts with outer entities and thaumaturgic circles, etc., etc. I think it was only the expediency of gaming and gamespeak and balancing encounters and having low-level summon fodder that obviously wouldn't or couldn't have the mind to follow such rules that an "as above, so below" concept began so that now summoning is viewed as a party trick, only slightly more interesting than a fireball.

So, there are two ways I view this...
THE SUMMONER (non-class specific term)

Baseline summoning isn't about a few pictures and a crude concept and an order of "Kill that guy." All of the off-camera time spent for a summon spell of any stripe (SM, SNA, etc.) includes all of the research for names and formulae needed to be able to summon what really amounts to a very small number of creatures (at first, and only a little more each level). Some players get upset and want more, more, more .... and hey, options are great, but the RP concept is that it took a lot just to be able to research the name of, if not an individual, the genera required to bring forth a fiendish octopus. Considering a summoned creature always has a rudimentary intelligence to understand basic commands given, that means that particular "animal" is still special enough to deserve a name. In addition, these spells are conjuration (summoning) spells, not conjuration (creation), an important distinction.

Now, of course, some summoners may truly not give a whit and it is just another tool in their toolbox they have learned to use - either because they are dilettante clerics or wizards that chose a rando spell slot for the day - or they are expert conjurers. That really comes down to personal philosophy.

However, I like to believe that on some level (friends, very temporary cohorts, master-slave, debtor-debtee, whatever), that however it is run a relationship of some kind is in existence. For arcane types that "outsource" from less reputable planes, it may make interesting roleplay in the future if that djinni comes around to have words with a summoner that once cast SM7. At the same time, there may be some type of Pact Primeval, but of a different sort, that absolves a summoner and summonee of blame for usage. So many RP ways to do this, and no one answer should work.

As far as those who end up focusing and getting Augment Summoning, or Thaumaturgist PrC or Cosmic Descryer (obvi), or any other feat/ ability that relates to enhanced summons, we come up with two possibilities if we assume the relationship theory above.

First, the feats/abilities represent researching a whole new list of "more powerful" creatures that the summoner has discovered in gnostic tomes and divinations (or whatever).

Another option, and one that seems to make more sense to me, reinforces the "relationship" aspect of summoning, rather than the fire-and-forget, and that is by making themselves "available" for summoning and entering into what may be a long-term relationship with a summoner, a bond is formed. Instead of a different summons coming that now just happens to have additional STR/ CON/ HD/ etc. .... that maybe the relationship has begun to bear fruit for both parties. Normally, a summons is awfully one-sided, but now we have a case where long-term association with transdimensional energies has made for a more powerful speciment. Maybe they will simply remain more powerful, maybe they will transform into something else. But this make more sense to me.

Of course, nothing stops a mix of both, actually.


THE SUMMONED ...

Creatures from the outer planes do not wink in and out of existence constantly from summons. And there seems to be some stability among those who are extraplanar that keeps them from being dragged to serve some snotnosed conjurer. So whatever that mechanic is, it likely is about summoning those creatures which can be summoned by dint of lack of any primary responsibilities .... something that in their metaphysical realm ties them to that realm beyond their own existence, thereby removing them from the loop of summonability.

So, when the druid casts summon nature's ally V, but seeks two SNA-IV grizzlies, maybe it is Artan and his spouse Beratrice that show when a '2' is rolled for number? Just spitballing here.

So, what does the summoned get out of this? If it was just the "tool" concept with option one, than summoning would be the absolute worst thing to do. You are effectively enslaving a creature. Maybe that's okay for evil, but for chaotics and good? That doesn't sit well. So, there must be something they can get out of this as well.

Well, if we continue our assumption of a long-term relationship rather than a random response every summoning, then we have to look at the "lifespan" of the summoned ... as a summons. Very often, conflict may be bred right into the environment of home, but even in that environment, the types of threat tend to be narrow. By being summoned, you are thrust into a condition where you very possibly learn battle experience a type of enemy you never have seen before. You have faced wonders that others of your kind have not faced when you've done reconnaissance. And you have interacted, even if submissively, with races and in environments that you might never have seen, or even have a chance of seeing again, despite relative immortality.

In short, the essence that allows itself to be put on the "summoning board" (whatever form that takes) gets to be "forward deployed" for exciting opportunities .... safely. They can be killed, but only in a mock sense as what really happens (being summoned and not wholly called) is that an avatar of your being, rather than your being itself, is called forth to engage in the most interactive "video game" the multiverse has to offer. The downside is that you very often have commanders that aren't that bright (the summoner) or understanding of your needs, but who else is going to get to battle a polar worm and live to tell the tale by telling his planar buddies, because that death wasn't real. Called creatures get all uppity for being called; summoned ones don't.

Then, let's say you do have that long-term relationship forming with that summoner, especially the one who has taken the time to learn your language, get a sense of your people (Knowledge), etc. Over time, you become stronger (Augment Summoning). Who knows, if they reach dizzying heights, they might take you with them (Cosmic Descryer epic Prc, I am looking at you again).

Other possibilities RP-wise? You do advance beyond your original self. I mean, how often does a summoner use those really low-level summons anymore? What if, depending on forms available to that summoner, you are no longer a hell hound brought forth by a SM3 spell, but the bone devil called upon later with SM7? Sure, mechanically it gets wonky if the summoner does cast SM3 .... but maybe that is a new hell hound brought forth. Yah, yah, I know .... this might be stretching things a bit much to allow that type of advancement.

And is it always static? Is there ever a time in which a summoner calls forth a creature, expecting Hosran the Unholy but getting Hubert the Untested instead, only to find out that Hosran's experiences mean he has been "promoted?" I am thinking proud summoner-papa/summoner-mama moment right there, because your relationship with this otherworldly creature not only meant that they helped control the battlefield and take out noisome mooks in your career, but that their sacrifice meant that they benefited as well.

Anyway, just throwing that out there, because I never liked the summons-as-nameless-fodder concept.

Mordaedil
2020-06-12, 03:23 AM
I don't think it's really what everyone should do, but for my characters I've always roleplayed that there's a bit of a ritual taking place when I learn my summon spells. Wherein even part of learning the spell is calling a creature from another plane, make a sort of pact or contract with them and making some sort of offer to them to be allowed to summon them. Early summons tend to want very little, just food or something akin to a promise of a good hunt, but higher level ones require more stated objectives, like only summoning them for when they are needed or even offering part of my soul for the summoning.

It depends a lot on the character and the summons I chose, but this also becomes a bit of a contract between me and the DM as well; I don't end up making a character that summons a bunch of things he can't prepare for, only things we've talked about and agreed upon summoning.

Called creatures are different, naturally.

Cluedrew
2020-06-12, 07:50 AM
I wrote a setting (not a game system) where all magic is via summoning. Sometimes you could force them - considered immoral and also they can hold grudges - but usually you would offer some service. Usually something vaguely conservation because they were all nature spirits. The story starts on the edge of a spirit woods and the shamans would do forestry in it at the behest of the spirits there to maintain there (not as much, they still like the fire cycle). On the other extreme one shaman created mystical art for them to appreciate.

I did another one (this one I began implementing myself) were the answer is: You will find out the moment you summon it. This one they were much more elemental and would just act according to that element. The fire spirit wants to set things on fire, the water spirit wants to rush downhill even if that means washing things away.