Wild Shape appearance

[Chalkarts]

When you wild shape into an animal, can you choose the animals coloration or do you just get what you get?

For example, if i turn into a cat can I choose to be a black cat on one shift and then a calico on another?

Follow up: If so, can I mimic another cats' colors. Example: I'm skulking around in the shadows of a weathy nobles manor looking for something to steal. The noble has a cat. A big floofy white MaineCoon with Blue eyes. Can I use wild shape to turn into a big floofy white MaineCoon with blue eyes so that the Noble will just think it's his own cat wandering around the house?

[JNAProductions]

When you wild shape into an animal, can you choose the animals coloration or do you just get what you get?

For example, if i turn into a cat can I choose to be a black cat on one shift and then a calico on another?

Follow up: If so, can I mimic another cats' colors. Example: I'm skulking around in the shadows of a weathy nobles manor looking for something to steal. The noble has a cat. A big floofy white MaineCoon with Blue eyes. Can I use wild shape to turn into a big floofy white MaineCoon with blue eyes so that the Noble will just think it's his own cat wandering around the house?

I would say you can choose, and yes.

[Tanarii]

Given you have to have seen a beast to turn into it, the feature definitely implies to me that you probably look reasonably like another specific animal that you've previously seen. I've certainly always assumed so.

Fooling someone should still be an ability check, provided there's a situation where the owner or someone that knows the animal well takes a very close look / interacts extensively.

[Chronos]

The owner of such a cat probably can distinguish between their own and another big floofy white Maine **** with blue eyes... if they look closely. But who expects to find a strange cat that looks a lot like their pet in their home? So they probably won't bother to look closely.

And yeah, it's a lot bigger change to turn from a human to a cat in the first place, than it is to change details like hair color. So I'd agree that a druid can customize the appearance of their new form, within the range of what's normal for that species.

[Tanarii]

And yeah, it's a lot bigger change to turn from a human to a cat in the first place, than it is to change details like hair color. So I'd agree that a druid can customize the appearance of their new form, within the range of what's normal for that species.
I dunno' I think some minor alterations are appropriate, but generally speaking the Druid has to see the variations to know what the normal range for the species is.

[Chronos]

I've never been a fan of nerfing druids via "you've never seen that creature before", unless it's a creature that just doesn't exist in that world. It's just too capricious and arbitrary.

And realistically, if you're trying to customize the appearance of an animal form, your desired customization probably is something you've seen. Want to turn into a housecat? It's probably because you're in an environment like a city, where housecats are extremely common, so you've seen a very wide variety of them. Want to disguise yourself as a particular NPC's pet? Well, the reason you want to do that probably includes having seen that specific pet, so even if it's an exotic animal and you don't know how typical it is of its species, you can still do it.

[Lunali]

I've never been a fan of nerfing druids via "you've never seen that creature before", unless it's a creature that just doesn't exist in that world. It's just too capricious and arbitrary.

I find it a fun mechanic as long as it isn't too terribly difficult to find new creatures, but that's fairly DM dependent.

[Tanarii]

I've never been a fan of nerfing druids via "you've never seen that creature before", unless it's a creature that just doesn't exist in that world. It's just too capricious and arbitraryThat's nice, but it's not a nerf to follow the literal rule, which is they have to have seen a creature. Not talking about variations, I mean to change into it at all. And XTGe has rules to cover starting Druids. Which definitely needed to be in the PHB.

To be clear, variations needing to have seen something similar is my interpretation, not RAW. I don't feel it's a nerf, I feel it's a reasonable interpretation of the power that helps prevent shenanigans. But if you think seeing any example of a creature allows a Druid to change into any example of the creature with the same stat block, bully for you. That's not a wrong interpretation.

I agree it's probably pretty safe to assume any urban Druid has seen a large share of cats and dogs, even in a pseudo-medieval setting. And definitely rats. For Druids native to other terrains I'd personally go with the helpful tables in XTGe (which doesn't have urban). And I agree this is definitely a case of "you've already seen it" anyway. I was speaking to the general.

[False God]

I find it a fun mechanic as long as it isn't too terribly difficult to find new creatures, but that's fairly DM dependent.

Unfortunately this is one of those examples that IMO, once the DM starts meddling with player abilities, it's downhill from there. First it's "you haven't seen one of those" in response to common animals (wait seriously I've never seen an eagle/comparable bird-of-prey?) followed by the guessing-game of what animals you have or haven't seen, then it's "well you saw it, but you haven't studied it" (since when do the rules say I need to study it?) then it's "well this creature is special*[read: I don't want you to be able to wild shape into it] so the normal amount of studying I told you about before is^nth, oh and did I mention you're now on a timetable to get to the next goal?" or its "Well bob spends 3 days shopping for boots of butt-kicking, but oh you want to study a new creature we'll here's the list of hoops you'll need to jump and the forms in triplicate".

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@OP: I would argue that since you've seen that cat you can wild shape into a visual copy that cat, though you would just have the generic cat statistics, and that cat might have something different about its physical capabilities or personality that you cannot copy with wild shape. I'd probably put some kind of Deception check to cover both looking like and acting like that cat.

[Cry Havoc]

Id allow it, but with a Deception check to get the details right.

Likely a Wisdom [Deception] check vs the Cat owners Wisdom [Perception] at an eyeball.

Deception. Your Charisma (Deception) check determines whether you can convincingly hide the truth, either verbally or through your actions. This deception can encompass everything from misleading others through ambiguity to telling outright lies. Typical situations include trying to fast-talk a guard, con a merchant, earn money through gambling, pass yourself off in a disguise, dull someone's suspicions with false assurances, or maintain a straight face while telling a blatant lie.

It feels more of a Wisdom based deception check for mine (its more you observing the Cat and then trying to mimic the Cats appearance) instead of a Charisma based one.

[Samayu]

I've never been a fan of nerfing druids via "you've never seen that creature before", unless it's a creature that just doesn't exist in that world. It's just too capricious and arbitrary.

If you haven't actually set eyes on it before, your inability to recreate it properly would only come into play if you're trying to make yourself actually look like the real thing. If your version doesn't look realistic, I'd say you can still have the stat block, it's just that people who have seen the real thing may not recognize you as one of it. Or you'd be obviously fake. Not necessarily a problem if they're busy being torn apart by your strange teeth and claws.

[Chronos]

OK, I could buy that. If you've never seen a velociraptor before, then you can turn yourself into an unrealistic velociraptor that still has sharp claws and teeth. Of course, it's likely that any observers would also not have seen a velociraptor, either, and so they wouldn't realize how unrealistic your depiction of one is. Assuming, again, that velociraptors are a thing that exists in the world.

And yeah, if you're trying to imitate a specific creature, well enough to fool someone who knows that creature, at more than a passing glance, then you'd need a Deception check to see how good your disguise is.

[Tanarii]

OK, I could buy that. If you've never seen a velociraptor before, then you can turn yourself into an unrealistic velociraptor that still has sharp claws and teeth. Of course, it's likely that any observers would also not have seen a velociraptor, either, and so they wouldn't realize how unrealistic your depiction of one is. Assuming, again, that velociraptors are a thing that exists in the world.
Druids really don't need a buff like that though.

[sambojin]

Could be fun with stuff like the Pirate background feature. Make sure you have a consistent'ish mark on any wildshape, so people recognize you, and don't report your nefarious minor murderhobo'ing activities. Possibly have several, that you change from time to time, giving you several "identities" to play with.

Which also gives you the option of wildshaping into animals without your Jolly Roger trademark, for when you actually do want to do things incognito.

You could even have entire druid circles use this as a gang-tatt, to show when they're on the warpath, and to not mess with them while they're in their colours.

(I almost always take the Pirate background, and I've never thought of doing this until I read this thread. Cheers!)

[False God]

Druids really don't need a buff like that though.

The game only says you "need to have seen" the creature. It doesn't specify you need to have seen the real creature. Yes I realize it may be implied, but WotC wanted to go "natural language" so here we are! You may have seen a drawing of a dinosaur, a sculpture, or even a child's toy, which would explain why your depiction of the form is somewhat inaccurate. And all it really comes down to is "DM have I seen a raptor before?" and your DM saying "Sure!". No more, no less.

[sambojin]

Also gives some chance of having "seen" beasts as "templates".

"The Great Dire Skunk, that was a small ball of rage and fury when encountered by our scouts, clawing and biting any that came near, but that also had a poisonous arse-spray that could blind you while melting your face off, if you were not firm. Told of in tales of the Old Times by our Elders, so that we all learn of it, so our children may know of it when we are Elders ourselves, should we be so blessed. Three villages were wiped out by it, before our Druids could pacify it. I've seen a tapestry of it, strung up in our Chief's Long Hut, to commiserate the deaths of our Warriors in those dark times."

Frilled Deathspitter template :)

Have you seen it? No. But you grew up with it, and so did your grand-dad. He saw it. He died because of it....


((I mean, seriously. I live in Australia. Give me -200 to -4200yrs in the past, and everything is f'ing scary here. But I've also taken a ride in a horse-drawn carriage on a date. Anachronisms and world-views and stuff still exists, even in our modern world. But when quaint isn't, it means more))

[Tanarii]

The game only says you "need to have seen" the creature. It doesn't specify you need to have seen the real creature. Yes I realize it may be implied, but WotC wanted to go "natural language" so here we are! You may have seen a drawing of a dinosaur, a sculpture, or even a child's toy, which would explain why your depiction of the form is somewhat inaccurate. And all it really comes down to is "DM have I seen a raptor before?" and your DM saying "Sure!". No more, no less.
I mean sure, if you think you can sell your DM on that, go for it. Good luck!

[Chronos]

"You can only turn into things you've seen" is supposed to be a balancing factor, but it really causes more problems than it solves. How far has your druid traveled before the start of the adventure? Has he ever met any other druids who traveled further? Has he seen all of the wild animals native to the area where he grew up, and if not, which ones? Are there zoos in this world? Has he visited any of them? Can he just cast a spell to summon some animals, look at them, and then change into them? What if all he saw of an animal was its snout poking out of the water, but couldn't tell from that what kind of animal it was-- Is that enough? It's all arbitrary. And putting arbitrary limits on players' abilities is never a good idea.

[Tanarii]

I'll be honest, I've never been sure it's a balancing factor so much as a "it must existing in the campaign world" factor. Removing it is a buff, and Druids don't really need a buff, but that doesn't mean it was intended to be about balance.

It's not really arbitrary from an in-universe perfective, it's pretty clear cut. But from the player playing a game perspective, I agree there's a lot of arbitrary. That's why the XTGE tables were needed. It gives he player and DM a way to settle on one terrain and they Druid automatically gets all those forms to start (as they "unlock" them, so to speak). After that it's about what you encounter in play. What dinosaur forms? Better to go chult or whatever the DMs lost world area is.

Honestly I really wish polymorph had the the same limitation, from an in-universe perspective. From a player usability perspective? Probably not so good. Of course, if you rule polymorph as 100% DMs choice, it doesn't matter.