Necklace of natural attacks w/ Eldritch Claws and Beast Strike

[schreier]

Let's assume a Monk 2 / Barbarian 2 / Warlock 3 / Enlightened Fist 10 / Fist of the Forest 3

That results in a damage as a level 20 monk (2d10 damage), and 6d6 eldritch blast. Also assume necklace of natural attacks with 1d6 fire damage and +1 bonus (just for simplicity). Also assume Strength 12 for +1 bonus. The relevant feats are Eldritch Claw and Beast Strike.

Beast Strike - When you make an unarmed strike or grapple check to deal damage, you may add your claw or slam damage to your unarmed strike or grapple damage.

Eldritch Claws - As a free action, you can form the energy of your eldritch blast into a set of claws extending almost an entire foot from your hands. While your eldritch claws exist you may make up to two claw attacks as natural weapons. You are automatically proficient with your eldritch claws. On a successful attack with an eldritch claw, you deal your normal amount of unarmed strike damage plus your eldritch blast damage. Once you form your eldritch claws they remain until just before the beginning of your next turn. You cannot use your normal eldritch blast ability while your eldritch claws exist. A monk may not use eldritch claws as part of her flurry of blows.


Necklace of Natural Attacks - The enhancement bonuses on this necklace are applied to attack and damage rolls involving one or more of the wearer's natural weapons. In addition, any weapon special quality may be applied to this necklace, and the quality then applies to those natural weapons as well.


Eldritch Claw damage - unarmed strike (2d10) + eldritch blast (6d6). Ignore the Necklace of Natural attacks fo rnow.

Beast Strike - Eldritch Claw damage + unarmed strike = 4d10 + 6d6.

That seems straight forward - I would have to believe that strength is only added once, so that becomes 4d10 + 6d6 + 1

If necklace of natural attack is applied to unarmed strike - does it add to eldritch claw AND beast strike? If it applies to claws, does it apply to eldritch claw AND beast strike? If you apply it to both claw and unarmed strike, does it apply four times total? (so anywhere from an additional 1d6+1 to 4d6+4 in this case)

I would think, if you applied to both claw and unarmed, it would be the 4d6+4 but wanted to get other's thoughts.

I believe the damage in this case would be 4d10 + 6d6 eldritch claw + 4d6 fire + 4 enchantment bonus + 1 strength bonus.

Obviously, with a more powerful necklace, the damage could get even bigger, and increases to size for the monk would add significant damage as well.

If you added wrathful healing - a +3 enchantment that "(w)hen the weapon deals damage to a creature, the wielder heals a number of hit points equal to half the damage dealt" -- since it isn't damage, I assume it would only help once, not four times like I believe the damage would be applied. I also assume that it would not apply to the eldritch claw damage or the elemental, but that isn't clear to me either.

[Gruftzwerg]

When wearing an amulet of natural attacks, the wielder’s unarmed strikes (or a single natural attack of its choice) is treated as magic (for purposes of bypassing damage reduction) and gains a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls.

"or" signals that it is either one.

Even if you would would pay to enhance both it is still arguable, because you get the enhancement bonus "to attack and dmg rolls".
But when you are calculating your dmg, you technically only attack with Beast Strike which only involves your Claw dmg. But you don't roll "claw attacks/dmg" separately, it is already included in the Beast Strike attack/dmg rolls.
Beast Strike is a modified "unarmed strike" and still counts as "unarmed strike" and not as "unarmed strike & claws".

______________________

If you are looking for Beast Strike cheese the "Sizing" enhancement is the way to go:

- unarmed strike always counts as light weapon, despite the size difference
- you get a -2 penalty for each step of size difference between you and your unarmed strike
- a medium sized character can have colossal sized unarmed strike for a -8 to hit (has better average ratios than Power Attack!)

medium size 2d10 > colossal size 24d8

the Eldritch Claw dmg is sadly not affected by size (but any other normal claw would allow to double dip for colossal size claw dmg).

I can recommend my claw of malar build in my signature if you are looking for an optimized clawlock build.

[schreier]

Thanks for the post, and I was planning on using the size approach, but was keeping it simple to determine the appropriate application of bonuses.

I was going to try greater might wallop to get to colossal. The character is Warforged, so going to add a battlefist to increase another size, then put on a fanged ring for improved natural attack to increase again, then apply earth hammer for one last size and adamantine (so 3 increases beyond colossal)

[Gruftzwerg]

Thanks for the post, and I was planning on using the size approach, but was keeping it simple to determine the appropriate application of bonuses.

I was going to try greater might wallop to get to colossal. The character is Warforged, so going to add a battlefist to increase another size, then put on a fanged ring for improved natural attack to increase again, then apply earth hammer for one last size and adamantine (so 3 increases beyond colossal)

- Different size effects don't stack, they can only cancel each other out (e.g. Reduce Person & Enlarge Person).
- 3.5 only has stacking rules for modifiers, and thus you may not stack anything else unless it explicitly says so (as exception).

The mentioned "Sizing" enhancement is the best option to increase the size of your unarmed strike, since it allows you to adjust to any size your want (up to colossal) for the price of "+1". Nothing that can beast this as far as I am aware.

edit: Besides from some obscure & special epic dragon rules, colossal is the max possible size and you may not extrapolate infos and expand the table (you lack the permission to do so in 3.5).

[schreier]

I had read other places where they were arguing you could stack some depending on order, but I can see your interpretation so will stick with no stacking of size.

When you mention the sizing enhancement - I didn't think you could wield oversized weapons without penalty or special ability (monkey grip, bracers, etc). It seems like Greater Mighty Whallop works though?

With Eldritch Claws - I can't find anywhere if it addresses the question of Spell Resistance -- are the claw attacks subject to spell resistance? If so, and it does not beat the roll, what is the damage? What if you have eldritch claw / beast strike which adds the claw damage to unarmed (as you talked about).

[Remuko]

When you mention the sizing enhancement - I didn't think you could wield oversized weapons without penalty or special ability (monkey grip, bracers, etc). It seems like Greater Mighty Whallop works though?


An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.

People tend to cite this as over-ruling the oversized weapon thing. Its still a colossal unarmed strike and deals the appropriate damage, but its still a light weapon for you, and thus you can wield it as such.

[Gruftzwerg]

I had read other places where they were arguing you could stack some depending on order, but I can see your interpretation so will stick with no stacking of size.

When you mention the sizing enhancement - I didn't think you could wield oversized weapons without penalty or special ability (monkey grip, bracers, etc). It seems like Greater Mighty Whallop works though?

With Eldritch Claws - I can't find anywhere if it addresses the question of Spell Resistance -- are the claw attacks subject to spell resistance? If so, and it does not beat the roll, what is the damage? What if you have eldritch claw / beast strike which adds the claw damage to unarmed (as you talked about).

I can recommend to read the basics (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm). They explain what modifiers are (and therefore what is not one) and when they stack and when not.

1. Besides from damage only modifiers may stack (if either untyped or at least of different type)
2. A modifier alters directly a roll: Size itself is not a modifier, it gives you "size modifiers" to work with your rolls depending on height and but size itself is never added itself to a roll.


Sizing:
As said, you get a stacking -2 penalty to hit for each step of size difference. But the average conversion ratio is better than a full feated Power Attack. -8 for a medium character to attack with a colossal sized unarmed strike.

Eldritch Claws:
Summons a pair of Claws and you do regular weapon dmg with them, subject to regular DR and not SR. If you would stack Hideous Blow, the HB would be subject to SR.

On a sidenote: Regular Eldrtich Blast (not your Claws!) is untyped dmg and thus bypasses already most resistances. If you take the acid blast, you can ignore SR too.