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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Check my homebewed HP hack? (Yup, another one)



Tangleweed
2020-06-14, 02:13 AM
Hi. I am about to DM for a somewhat new player group. All players are experienced role players but have not played together and on a whole we have more experience with other systems than DnD. I am next in DM rotation and I will be using DnD5e. However, a lot of the player hav expressed that they are not entirely happy with the HP-system. Main complaints being the ridiculous amount of damage one can withstand, the unclear definition of what HP actually is, and that the bubble wrapping it provides reduces tension and drama. They also expressed that its a bit ridiculous that pretty much no matter what beating you took, you can just sleep it of during a long rest. Well, I have been DMing for beginners a bit and have been making using the HPs more as guidelines for narration rather than absolute rules. So I have tried to formulate my ideas into rules. Ill present them here along with my reasoning. If there is anything you feel is strange, unfair or just straight up dumb, let me know. My ambition is to change as little as possible, keep things fair and not add to much book keeping.

Added this: if my players had not expressed unhappiness with the HP system I would not change it. I also intend to write this up in my native language and send to my players. English is not my first language and I suspect that some of the wording in here is going to be a bit of. Hopefully I can still get my ideas across.

- HP at start is class max roll + con mod. At lvl up its average roll + con mod. I want the game to show that some characters, the ones who invested in con and a sturdy class, actually benefits from it. And I also want it to be a separation between the hardier characters and those who are not. I realize this is not hack, but relevant information.
- HP will be capped at level 8, i think. Maybe 10? I want the characters to get pretty sturdy while avoiding absurd amount of HP. It is unclear if we will get this for though. Also, I usually run my monsters with lower hit points than presented in the books. Usually I go for low roll plus mod for monsters.
- The starting hit points, that is class max roll + con mod, is your physical sturdiness. The rest represents rolling with blows, turning enough not to take the full force of a blow or maybe just being tough enough to weather some damage. All this HP is one pool and taken from the "top". That means that the extra-non bodily HP will run out first and then the last will be the physical HP. This has no real game impact, this is just to make it easier for my players to visualize what the numbers represent. I could just narrate this myself, but I prefer to tell the result to the player and lett de narrate it. IE; DM: "goblin swing for 17, 5 damage" Player "****, Kim takes that spear straight through her right shoulder, howling in pain".
- In a situation where a character can not or choose not to defend them selves, damage will be dealt to the physical HP. Examples are a tied up hostage, a sleeping character or a scene where a character some reason is choosing not to defend them self.
- If a player receives more damage in one blow than their constitution stat, that is considered an injury. An injury means getting a level of exhaustion. I looked at a bunch of other systems solution for this. Many of them had a flat damage threshold, usually 10. But I felt that was unfair as some characters have invested in con and should be sturdier. I also feel its not true to the narrative that the character who maxed out con and is described as a full on warrior takes an in jury as easily as the character who dumped con and is described as a glass statue.
- Regaining HP works almost as normal. Expend hit dice on short rest to regain HP, and all HP back on long rest. But, not all your physical HP are back. My idea here is that you get back one physical HP per rest, long or short, but you still get topped up to your max HP with the bubble wrap HPs. in stressfull situations, magic healing provides bubble wrap HP and in calm conditions they heal up Physical HP first and then add to the bubble wrap.
- Long rest cures a level of exhaustion. A long rest with magical healing aid, from a character with magic and access to someone proficient in medicine cures two levels.
- Non magical medical aid, such as bandags or what not cures one hit die for the character it is applied to without expening a hit die. Cant be done mid combat.
- 0 hit points means out of action. Was reading and toying with different ideas for negative HP and whatnot, but in the end I felt like it was needles bookkeeping. However, being knocked out of commision means one level of exhaustion.

All in all, I am pretty happy with this.

Please, if you will, I would be really happy if you would share your thoughts on this. I really want to make my players happy.

BurgerBeast
2020-06-14, 02:28 AM
I personally like all of the changes. I have toyed with similar ideas in the past. I would like to hear how it goes.

Spacehamster
2020-06-14, 02:33 AM
All ideas seem solid, but heck, never heard of players that want to be nerfed/weakened before! xD

Kane0
2020-06-14, 03:41 AM
Seems like a lot of changes to keep track of, especially starting out.

Might I recommend a slightly simpler:

- Level 1 HP is max Hit Die Plus Con score instead of bonus. Subsequent levels are only Hit Die (roll or average) without any bonuses from Con. Con bonus still applies to Hit Die healing as usual.
- Getting knocked to 0 HP incurs a level of exhaustion (or a lingering injury, depending on what your table prefers)
- Long rests do not automatically restore any HP, only allowing you to recover Hit Die

The first means you start out a little ahead of the curve but by the middle to end of Tier 2 you begin to drop below the average with the gap increasing from there.
The second makes players fear being KO’d, and will adjust play accordingly.
And put together these put a little more emphasis on resting to heal.

Lastly, HP is 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will; 5% pleasure and 50% pain.

Grod_The_Giant
2020-06-14, 08:15 AM
- If a player receives more damage in one blow than their constitution stat, that is considered an injury. An injury means getting a level of exhaustion. I looked at a bunch of other systems solution for this. Many of them had a flat damage threshold, usually 10. But I felt that was unfair as some characters have invested in con and should be sturdier. I also feel its not true to the narrative that the character who maxed out con and is described as a full on warrior takes an in jury as easily as the character who dumped con and is described as a glass statue.
Messing with hit point mechanics is always a little risky in 5e--it's the primary way the system scales and balances itself, and nothing else even comes close--but I'm concerned about this one in particular. Single hits in the 10-15 damage range start being common by CR 2; by CR 5, even a high-Con character will be looking at multiple levels of exhaustion per turn.

Stuff along the lines of your third idea (making an explicit split between virtual-HP and meat-HP) is generally your best bet for making hit points "more realistic." It makes it more clear what is and isn't a lethal hit, and allows you to keep "no really, this sort of thing will just kill you regardless of level" around, without upsetting the balance of every monster and player option in the game. Combine it with Kane0's suggestion to remove long-rest healing, and 4e style negative hit points ("you die at -Con") and you should have something that still works about the same but feels more lethal, and avoids some of the weirder aspects of 5e's design ("I'm fine after a good night's sleep," yo-yo healing, etc).

Cicciograna
2020-06-14, 09:05 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this resembles a lot the old Vitality/Wound point system (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/vitalityAndWoundPoints.htm) from 3.5 edition. Did you take inspiration from it? I always wanted to test it to see how it plays it out, let us know.

Tangleweed
2020-06-14, 01:05 PM
Thank you to you all for taking your time to respond. just hearing that its seems somewhat resonable means a lot.

My playgroup might seems a bit strange but we do like failure. nothing gets the drama going as a couple of adventurers in tight situation and things start going bad.

I have not played 3.5 really. My only experience with 3.5 comes from playing the original Neverwinter nights series of games, but I cant say that it read up to much on the actual rules. But following the link I do see the resemblance and I might read it again more carefully to see if there is anything I might crib from them.

And good points raised about the "injury" system. It seems correct that the exhaustion will stack on quickly. One idea would be to use a binary mechanic where a character is either injured or not, and an injury simply means a level on exhaustion. But honestly, I think Ill just get rid of the idea.

One thing that popped into my mind would be to change what happens at 0 hp. The idea would be that a character still takes death saves. A failure means a lvl och exhaustion and three successes means stable but out of action and at a lot of exhaustion. Wierd as it might seem I sort of like the idea of yo-yo healing but with a penalty. Makes for a feeling of desperate fights on the edge of death. Does that seems really dumb? It the end of a particularly bad fight the characters might need to rest a couple of days aided by magic before they are good to go again. I like that idea. But thinking about it, I could probably do the same by just saying that long rest gives back hit dice that are then spent to get HP back. I also realize that I need in combat heals to somehow give back Physical Hitpoints if Yo-Yo is gonna work.

Again, thank you!

Contrast
2020-06-14, 01:23 PM
If my experience is anything to go by your players are going to have to take quite a few days off per day of adventuring once they start levelling up and fighting enemies who dish out large hits.

Those exhaustion levels will stack up fast and are very crippling to certain builds.

Tangleweed
2020-06-14, 01:34 PM
If my experience is anything to go by your players are going to have to take quite a few days off per day of adventuring once they start levelling up and fighting enemies who dish out large hits.

Those exhaustion levels will stack up fast and are very crippling to certain builds.

Thank you for the input. Is this true even after I removed the injury rule? That is, they only get a lvl of exhaustion at reaching 0 HP, not from taking big damage in one attack?

Kane0
2020-06-14, 01:57 PM
Thank you for the input. Is this true even after I removed the injury rule? That is, they only get a lvl of exhaustion at reaching 0 HP, not from taking big damage in one attack?

Chances are a level of exhaustion at 0 is the only real change you’ll need, it really changes the player’s mindset.
Unless they’re really bothered by how much they can heal with rest, thats an easy tweak to make as well.

Tangleweed
2020-06-14, 02:17 PM
Chances are a level of exhaustion at 0 is the only real change you’ll need, it really changes the player’s mindset.
Unless they’re really bothered by how much they can heal with rest, thats an easy tweak to make as well.

The complaint I got from my players is not so much mechanical or tactical but rather narrative. You know the old question "what is Hitpoints?". But yeah, I bothers my players more than it bothers me.

DevilMcam
2020-06-14, 02:33 PM
You could simply go for the gritty rest variant.
Short rest are a nightfull of rest.
Long rests are a full week of resting.

My take on HPs is that hit points and hit dices are mostly stamina and flesh wounds.
And only the Last of your hitpoints actually représente real injury.

Exaustion on 0 is also ŕ good fix, but Will probably be VERY HARSH if you pair it with gritty rest