Undead minions with Range?

[Delta_tea]

Need some help. I love the idea of having a posse of Undead Archers raining arrows down on whatever my party is fighting. Trouble is, I'm having a hard time figuring out which bodies are usable. My understanding is that if the race/monster is proficient in bows/crossbows before, that they will be after. So I discovered Yuan Ti Pureblood carry a masterful longbow. But short of Kobold throwing rocks I can't seem to find anymore good canidates... Magic users are also an option... Thank you for ideas!

[Ruethgar]

There was a way somewhere to add a combat feat to your mindless undead minions, Martial Weapon Proficiency is a poor choice of feat, but could work. I can’t seem to find it with a quick search, however.

Edit: Also if there are 10+, they don’t need proficiency, all they need is a commander to do Heroes of Battle rules for volley. The leader uses their BaB+Int vs AC 15 for an AoE(area based on archer formation) base weapon damage, Ref negates. Concentrated volley AC 20 but only a 5ft sq per 10 archers and deals 1/5 total arrow damage(i.e. 10 archers firing one arrow from a longbow each=2d8)Ref DC 15 for half.

[Blue Jay]

Need some help. I love the idea of having a posse of Undead Archers raining arrows down on whatever my party is fighting. Trouble is, I'm having a hard time figuring out which bodies are usable. My understanding is that if the race/monster is proficient in bows/crossbows before, that they will be after. So I discovered Yuan Ti Pureblood carry a masterful longbow. But short of Kobold throwing rocks I can't seem to find anymore good canidates... Magic users are also an option... Thank you for ideas!

The basic human warrior skeleton from the SRD (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/skeleton.htm) is proficient with all martial weapons, because a skeleton keeps all the weapon proficiencies of the base creature. It makes no distinction between racial and class-based proficiencies, so proficiencies that come from class levels still count. Several published modules have basic human warrior skeletons wielding longbows, such as Siege of the Spider Eaters from Dungeon #137, so I don't think it's a problem to just put a longbow in their hands. Besides, I highly doubt that any of your players would consider you a dirty cheater for giving them longbow proficiency, even if it wasn't RAW.

Libris Mortis also has some skeleton variants (p 162), including a soldier skeleton, which gets Weapon Focus with a weapon (maybe even with any weapon it wields, depending on how you interpret the text). You could always use that.

There are also some other skeletal monsters you could look at:
Book of Vile Darkness has the Bone Creature template, which is basically just the skeleton template, except the monster retains its Int and all that.
Spell Compendium has the spell awaken undead, which explicitly says the awakened skeletons regain their weapon and armor proficiencies (even though the skeleton template pretty clearly says they didn't lose those proficiencies to begin with).
Monsters of Faerun and Lost Empires of Faerun have the baneguard, which is basically an intelligent skeleton with 4 HD (CR 2).
Lost Empires of Faerun also has the dread, which is basically just a pair of skeletal arms that floats in the air. Also CR 2, and would be a really neat visual for a skeletal archer.
Eberron Campaign Setting has the Karrnathi skeleton, which is basically an intelligent skeleton with 3 HD (CR 3), and there is a little text blurb about making it into an archer with a composite longbow.
For a higher-level game, Dragon #317 has the eldritch archer at CR 13. It's supposed to be the animated skeleton of an arcane archer, with a couple special archery attacks.


Well, that was entirely too much information. I hope some of it is useful to you.

[The Viscount]

Arrow demons are of course great archers, and they retain their special abilities for archery since it's something that enhances their attacks, similar to ettins.

Flameskull from Lost Empires of Faerun shoots fire out of its eyes and is extremely difficult to kill.

Bonespitter from Dragon Compendium, as the name suggests, spits bones, as well as some other nasty surprises.

[Zanos]

Seconding Arrow Demon skeletons. They have monster stats and I believe they keep their cool archery powers because they're (Ex) special qualities.

Also, skeletons should be proficient with whatever you give them.

[liquidformat]

As already stated as long as the creature had proficiency in life it retains it in death, there are a couple other zombie and skeleton alternatives in Book of Vile Darkness that might be useful for your army of undead archers and you will probably want to read through volley rules in Heros of Battle too.

[Zanos]

If you can cast Awaken Undead you can also grant your minions an intelligence score, and the associated feats and skill points for their HD. Sor/Wiz 7. 6th level domain spell for clerics. They'll still follow your commands like good little minions, too.

Among other things, this allows a squad of up to 7 1hd skeletons led by a 3d skeleton to use the Missile Volley teamwork benefit, and they will all gain +8 to hit with their bows. Stocking up on 1hd skeletons has other issues, but a neat little trick. You can split a pile of arrows you cast (Chain) Greater Magic Weapon between them as well, for up to +5 hit and damage. So a squad of lowly human skeletons could be attacking at +14 to hit for 1d8+6 damage with composite bows.

[Delta_tea]

If you can cast Awaken Undead you can also grant your minions an intelligence score, and the associated feats and skill points for their HD. Sor/Wiz 7. 6th level domain spell for clerics. They'll still follow your commands like good little minions, too.

Among other things, this allows a squad of up to 7 1hd skeletons led by a 3d skeleton to use the Missile Volley teamwork benefit, and they will all gain +8 to hit with their bows. Stocking up on 1hd skeletons has other issues, but a neat little trick. You can split a pile of arrows you cast (Chain) Greater Magic Weapon between them as well, for up to +5 hit and damage. So a squad of lowly human skeletons could be attacking at +14 to hit for 1d8+6 damage with composite bows.

That's a really interesting idea. I was doing the math and the HD of minions adds up fast.

Level 5 Cleric => Level 3 Spell caster, 3x4HD=12HD, Decreate x2, Feat x1.5 => 36 HD. So that's at least 3 squads of 1hd skeletons raining death from above.

Add in a Rod of Undead Mastery and its x2 and that's a standing armory just because...

I'd love to use the Arrow Demon (10HD each, 3 is easier to manage than 30 minions), but my DM seems to think Extraplanar creatures just disappear when they die. I don't know any better since this is new to me.

[RSGA]

They do tend to disappear on death because the most common way of getting in an outsider is a non-Calling type effect which means the outsider didn't really die and gets snapped back to their plane on what should be death.

[Zanos]

That's a really interesting idea. I was doing the math and the HD of minions adds up fast.

Level 5 Cleric => Level 3 Spell caster, 3x4HD=12HD, Decreate x2, Feat x1.5 => 36 HD. So that's at least 3 squads of 1hd skeletons raining death from above.
Quick correction, a 5th level cleric is a 5th level caster. Spell Level and caster level are seperate stats. But desecrate only increases how much you can raise with a single casting of animate dead, not your control pool. So baseline a 5th level cleric would have a control pool with animate dead of 5*4 = 20 HD. That scales up pretty quickly, though.


I'd love to use the Arrow Demon (10HD each, 3 is easier to manage than 30 minions), but my DM seems to think Extraplanar creatures just disappear when they die. I don't know any better since this is new to me.
An arrow demon is conveniently 10 HD, so you can Call one with planar binding. You could just use that convince it to be your bodyguard for 1 day/CL but murdering demons and reanimating them tends to be more reliable than bargaining. The corpses of called creatures shouldn't disappear, but I believe one of the fiendish codex's has a table of weird stuff that can happen to demon corpses. Their essence does eventually rejoin with the Abyss and reform into another demon, but there should be time to reanimate them before that happens.

That's the wizard method anyway. Clerics would have to use planar ally, which costs XP, and your god might get pissed if you keep murdering the servants he sends to help you.

[TheCount]

Normal summoning would work as well, you just need to cast dimensional anchor before killing them, so thier bodies remain. That's what the above mentioned table use as a base iirc.

Calling takes brings the called creature wholly to the same plane you are on, making it possible to perma kill them iirc.

Edit: yep
On phone, but from the srd:
Calling

A calling spell transports a creature from another plane to the plane you are on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can’t be dispelled.

[Tvtyrant]

There is also Animate Dread Warrior, which retains class levels. With some binding you can make full archers or casters as undead.

[Delta_tea]

Quick correction, a 5th level cleric is a 5th level caster. Spell Level and caster level are seperate stats. But desecrate only increases how much you can raise with a single casting of animate dead, not your control pool. So baseline a 5th level cleric would have a control pool with animate dead of 5*4 = 20 HD. That scales up pretty quickly, though.

An arrow demon is conveniently 10 HD, so you can Call one with planar binding. You could just use that convince it to be your bodyguard for 1 day/CL but murdering demons and reanimating them tends to be more reliable than bargaining. The corpses of called creatures shouldn't disappear, but I believe one of the fiendish codex's has a table of weird stuff that can happen to demon corpses. Their essence does eventually rejoin with the Abyss and reform into another demon, but there should be time to reanimate them before that happens.

That's the wizard method anyway. Clerics would have to use planar ally, which costs XP, and your god might get pissed if you keep murdering the servants he sends to help you.

Thanks for the correction. Like I mentioned, I'm new to this 3.5 system. So would Rod of Undead Mastery double the 20 HD to 40 HD? That may make it worth the 10000g price... Btw, I love cheap gear that increases my capabilities without a Feat or Gear slot.

The main problem is I'd need to convince my DM I could somehow reasonibly get an Outsider here and find it dead. Safe to say, I can't kill an Arrow Demon solo yet. I also don't have anyway of casting planar binding. Even Greater Anyspell, when I do get it, tops out at level 5 spells and normal Planar Ally is level 6 :smallfrown:. I need to hit at least level 7 to cast Dimensional Anchor, so that won't be an option for a while.

Maybe some Yuan-ti Purebloods would be a solution? Its a 4HD, so maybe just run 5 of them? It just feels like they'd be really weak. Low health, 1d8 damage. One well placed fireball would probably take out my whole squad. Granted, humans are much worse at only 1 HD, but even then, they can use a longbow with 1d8. More firepower per HD. 5d8 vs. 20d8. Just a pain to control all of them an deploy to the battlefield.

My DM is being reasonable about things at least. He's allowing me to start with a Nexrosis Carnex on my team. I'll probably need to store him in my Enveloping Pit when my party is fighting to keep him safe and that aura off of us. But his Necrotic Touch will be handy is healing up the undead squad after combat. Provided they're stout enough to make it through.


Arrow demons are of course great archers, and they retain their special abilities for archery since it's something that enhances their attacks, similar to ettins.

Flameskull from Lost Empires of Faerun shoots fire out of its eyes and is extremely difficult to kill.

Bonespitter from Dragon Compendium, as the name suggests, spits bones, as well as some other nasty surprises.

I look up Bonespitter. I think I'm in love with the automatic Counterspell feature. That's actually my number one concern being a Cleric is protecting my DMM Persisted spells. So a Counterspell of a Dispell would be amazing. Plus it hits fairly hard at 3d4+1 (better than 1d8)! I need to figure out how buff up its health, 16 hp is kind of asking for a stray wind to kill it 2HD.

Flameskull is definitely nice as well. The Rejuvenation feature will save a ton of black onyx gems! Down side, weak hp, 2d8 damage. Plus side no armor/weapons/arrows to buy, spells, along with Rejuvenation. I'm assuming since it has an Int of 11, it's smart enough to do tasks such as guarding the camp at night? It can even speak Common, so it could call for help.

I'll inquire with my DM. Can't hurt to ask.

Thanks again for all of the ideas and please keep them coming! I really do appreciate them.

[ShurikVch]

If stuff from Dragon magazines are OK, then #317 has Eldritch Archer:

This creature looks like an animated humanoid skeleton, cold red light shining in its eyesockets and mouth. It wields an unnerving composite longbow crackling with black lightning.
An eldritch archer is a magically animated skeleton of an elven arcane archer that has been killed through exacting and foul unholy rituals. Several powerful osyluths are reputed to know the secrets of creating an eldritch archer, and they sometimes give favored mortal minions this secrets to aid in creating loyal guards for particularly important sites.
Eldritch archer average about five feet tall and weigh about 60 pounds.
Eldritch Archer is LE 16 HD Medium Undead, and have:
Eldritch Longbow - +5 keen composite longbow (+4 Strength) which produces unlimited supply of arrows, and melts if taken from the Eldritch Archer (Eldritch Archer can manifest new bow as a full-round action which provokes AoO)
Storm of Arrows - every 1d4+1 rounds, Eldritch Archer can either make a ranged attack against every enemy in 100' cone, or attack a single enemy - if attack connects, it count as being hit by 2d4 arrows (each arrow deal 1d8+9 damage, but critical hit counts only for the 1st arrow)
Vampiric Arrow - as a full-round action, Eldritch Archer fire a single arrow which cause 6d6 of negative energy damage and heals Eldritch Archer for amount equal to damage inflicted

[Delta_tea]

If stuff from Dragon magazines are OK, then #317 has Eldritch Archer:

Eldritch Archer is LE 16 HD Medium Undead, and have:
Eldritch Longbow - +5 keen composite longbow (+4 Strength) which produces unlimited supply of arrows, and melts if taken from the Eldritch Archer (Eldritch Archer can manifest new bow as a full-round action which provokes AoO)
Storm of Arrows - every 1d4+1 rounds, Eldritch Archer can either make a ranged attack against every enemy in 100' cone, or attack a single enemy - if attack connects, it count as being hit by 2d4 arrows (each arrow deal 1d8+9 damage, but critical hit counts only for the 1st arrow)
Vampiric Arrow - as a full-round action, Eldritch Archer fire a single arrow which cause 6d6 of negative energy damage and heals Eldritch Archer for amount equal to damage inflicted

Found it, page 73! That's really neat, I won't have to pay for a bow and arrows every!!! I'll ask.

[Ruethgar]

Graveborn Warrior Dragon Magazine #312, give your skele a feat. I knew I remembered it from somewhere. Pretty sure that article has more as well.

[Delta_tea]

Graveborn Warrior Dragon Magazine #312, give your skeleton a feat. I knew I remembered it from somewhere. Pretty sure that article has more as well.

Are you thinking adding Precise Shot or something like that for the minions? Not sure which feat would help them...

[Ruethgar]

Loyalty’s Reward would be best if they were a Libris Morris or web article Undead Leadership follower. Base it off of Fell Conspiracy, an at will cantrip, a stacking skill bonus, coordination ability, and near immunity to a common combat tactic.

At will Summon Instrument for a Lutebow and some drumsticks that happened to be fletched just right? Lol that sound ridiculous.

Stacking skill in hide so they can snipe with that -20.

Maybe a boon for the HoB volley rules if they use it together.

[Oberron]

Soldier skeletons as mentioned above is solid and while not a undead creature don't forget desecrate with an altar (portable) for unholy bonus to hit and damage.

I think there was a 4 armed snake person who could use two bows at once or if used a single bow added double str to damage?