How many levels of wizard?

[Farias123]

Hey there. So, I'm just gonna introduct my character a little bit, so if you don't care about all the fluff, just skip to the last paragraph haha. My character atm is a Warforged, Battle Smith 7/War Wizard 2, his stats: STR: 8; DEX: 14; CON:16; INT:18; CHA: 12. I play as a tank/support, everyday I use Aid on everybody for those extra HP and I stay on the frontline so no one gets physically wounded. I used my infusions and my ASI to increase my survivability (Enhanced Defense +1 to AC; Resilient:DEX), I have 73 hitpoints. So, I decided to take those 2 levels of War Wizard to have more spell slots, add INT to initiative, the Find Familiar spell, a few extra cantrips, and most important: the Arcane deflection, my god, that +4 to a save have saved my life so many times, I've lost the count.

But I was just thinking: Should I take more Wizard levels? Because I could have even more high level slots, some nice wizard level 2 and 3 spells, but I would lose some nice Artificer and Battle Smith things, like the enhanced Arcane Jolt(4d6 instead of 2d6), the +2 to Defender's AC, more Defender's HP, the 6th attunement slot and the 6th infusion, so I need some guidance around here.

[Christew]

Hey there. So, I'm just gonna introduct my character a little bit, so if you don't care about all the fluff, just skip to the last paragraph haha. My character atm is a Warforged, Battle Smith 7/War Wizard 2, his stats: STR: 8; DEX: 14; CON:16; INT:18; CHA: 12. I play as a tank/support, everyday I use Aid on everybody for those extra HP and I stay on the frontline so no one gets physically wounded. I used my infusions and my ASI to increase my survivability (Enhanced Defense +1 to AC; Resilient:DEX), I have 81 hitpoints. So, I decided to take those 2 levels of War Wizard to have more spell slots, add INT to initiative, the Find Familiar spell, a few extra cantrips, and most important: the Arcane deflection, my god, that +4 to a save have saved my life so many times, I've lost the count.

But I was just thinking: Should I take more Wizard levels? Because I could have even more high level slots, some nice wizard level 2 and 3 spells, but I would lose some nice Artificer and Battle Smith things, like the enhanced Arcane Jolt(4d6 instead of 2d6), the +2 to Defender's AC, more Defender's HP, the 6th attunement slot and the 6th infusion, so I need some guidance around here.
Let's take a look! At Battle Smith 7/War Wizard 2 you are a level 6 caster (3rd level slots) and you know Artificer spells up to 2nd level and Wizard spells up to 1st level. As you pointed out, Arcane Deflection is the real jus of War Wizard (Tactical Wit ain't bad either), but you already have it, so what do you gain with more Wizard?

Wizard 3: Learn 2nd level Wizard spells, level 7 caster (4th level slots)
Wizard 4: ASI, level 8 caster
Wizard 5: Learn 3rd level Wizard spells, level 9 caster (5th level slots)
Wizard 6: Power Surge, level 10 caster
Not bad, but not great. Power Surge kind of sucks and we'd get an ASI anyway by levelling Battle Smith, so the real jus here is the enhanced caster progression. Getting higher level slots and knowing higher level spells (fireball, yay!) are great, but it is costing us a good bit to get there (fireball at character level 12, meh). So what do you lose/delay by levelling Wizard instead of Battle Smith?

Battle Smith 8: ASI
Battle Smith 9: Arcane Jolt, learn 3rd level Artificer Spells, level 7 caster (4th level slots)
Battle Smith 10: Magic Item Adept, 2 more infusions known
Battle Smith 11: Spell Storing Item, level 8 caster
Pretty solid. We get our ASI a level faster, more infusions, more magic items, and most importantly Arcane Jolt and Spell Storing Item. These are core mechanics and should not be delayed. Your caster level and spells known are weaker, but such is the life of a half caster.

Summation: Battle Smith 7/Wizard 6 would make you a level 10 caster (5th level slots) and you know Artificer spells up to 2nd level and Wizard spells up to 3rd level, you also gain Power Surge. Battle Smith 11/Wizard 2 would make you a level 8 caster (4th level slots) and you know Artificer spells up to 3rd level and Wizard spells up to 1st level, you also gain Arcane Jolt and Spell Storing Item.

Conclusion: You got the best stuff from War Wizard already (unless you have your heart set on 2nd or 3rd level Wizard spells). Leave it at 2 until at least Artificer 11 for SSI (maybe 12 for the ASI). Artificer kind of descends into "more magic items!" after level 12, even Battle Smith's capstone is basically "your Arcane Jolt and Steel Defender are slightly better!". At that point I'd say you could do more Wizard if you want more spells or even Fighter if you want to melee more. Hope this helps.

[Dork_Forge]

I'd leave Wizard at 2, you got the cantrips and utility spells as well as the subclass abilities. You're going for a tank so I'd definitely pump Artfiicer: your Wizard levels have put your Steel Defender behind the curve a bit already and slowed your own hp progression, for the role you're after you'd be better off correcting that and grabbing Spell Storing Item and Arcane Jolt. Fun thing to keep in mind, even when you use Arcane Deflection, you can still use SSI as you're not actually casting the spell.

[Farias123]

I'd leave Wizard at 2, you got the cantrips and utility spells as well as the subclass abilities. You're going for a tank so I'd definitely pump Artfiicer: your Wizard levels have put your Steel Defender behind the curve a bit already and slowed your own hp progression, for the role you're after you'd be better off correcting that and grabbing Spell Storing Item and Arcane Jolt. Fun thing to keep in mind, even when you use Arcane Deflection, you can still use SSI as you're not actually casting the spell.
Hmm, that's very nice, though, I think that it is very interesting as well because you can use Arcane deflection and attack, a thing that if you were a full wizard you probably wouldn't do.

[Daithi]

...I could have even more high level slots, some nice wizard level 2 and 3 spells, but I would lose some nice Artificer and Battle Smith things...

Whenever I've found myself in the situation where I need to pick between something that provides a better optimized character or some cool features that just fit in with how I envision my character then the latter choice nearly always makes me connect better with my character and have more fun.

Welp, except when my character gets killed because I didn't go the optimized route. :smallsmile:

[Farias123]

Conclusion: You got the best stuff from War Wizard already (unless you have your heart set on 2nd or 3rd level Wizard spells). Leave it at 2 until at least Artificer 11 for SSI (maybe 12 for the ASI). Artificer kind of descends into "more magic items!" after level 12, even Battle Smith's capstone is basically "your Arcane Jolt and Steel Defender are slightly better!". At that point I'd say you could do more Wizard if you want more spells or even Fighter if you want to melee more. Hope this helps.

Yeah, I mean, power surge sucks, but I was divided on that level 10 feature for +2 to AC and all saves when concentrating on a spell, but that would mean, not SSI or improved defender and Arcane Jolt, and those extra attunement slots.
But man, those wizard levels can give you a lot of spell slots, and some high level spells.

[Christew]

Durable Magic is definitely nice. It would take you until 17 to get there though and at that point you'd be more Wizard than Artificer. If that was the plan, I probably would have bailed on Battle Smith at either 3 for INT attacks or 5 for extra attack. I mean, you'll have good INT and synergy around it regardless, so no wrong answers.

[Sigreid]

I find for me it is almost always better to specialize and become strong in one class than to spread my power too far over other classes. I have no numbers to back up my belief.

[Falconcry]

If you really like Aid it stacks with False Life. If you get 9 level in Wizard you would have level 6 and 7 slots. Thats around 30 HP for each spell for a total of around 30 for two buddies and 60 for yourself.

[Farias123]

If you really like Aid it stacks with False Life. If you get 9 level in Wizard you would have level 6 and 7 slots. Thats around 30 HP for each spell for a total of around 30 for two buddies and 60 for yourself.

That does seem nice, but I wanted to be more Artificer than War Wizard, in order to have more HP for the Steel Defender and get the improved defender and Arcane Jolt.

[nickl_2000]

That does seem nice, but I wanted to be more Artificer than War Wizard, in order to have more HP for the Steel Defender and get the improved defender and Arcane Jolt.

If you want to be more artificer than Wizard you have pretty much answered the question there. Just go full artificer from here on out. You have gotten the biggest boon with the +2 AC/+4 Saves reaction and level 1 rituals, and the gain at this point is less than it would have been otherwise.

Honestly, I'm likely going to do the same thing with an Arcane Trickster who I'm running at the moment. Level 5(or 7) AT Rogue/ 2 War Wizard/ The rest Rogue.

[Farias123]

If you want to be more artificer than Wizard you have pretty much answered the question there. Just go full artificer from here on out. You have gotten the biggest boon with the +2 AC/+4 Saves reaction and level 1 rituals, and the gain at this point is less than it would have been otherwise.

Honestly, I'm likely going to do the same thing with an Arcane Trickster who I'm running at the moment. Level 5(or 7) AT Rogue/ 2 War Wizard/ The rest Rogue.

Thanks, War Wizard really doesn't keep up with that level 6 ability.