Why am I Buffing You People Again?

[NecessaryWeevil]

Hi, looking for, I guess, advice on OOC group dynamics and/or casting tactics.

I'm a 5th-level divine soul sorceror. Most of my spells focus on healing, buffing or crowd control: Bless, Healing Word, Revivify, Lesser Restoration, Web, Suggestion, Enhance Ability. My two damage spells are Firebolt and Toll the Dead. Metamagics are Subtle and Twinned. We play a series of one-shots but most players are the same week to week.

Last week not a single player used their Bless die, despite being blessed for several combat rounds. It's been similar in previous sessions. I name who I'm blessing, type their names in the Roll20 chat, and the DM even puts little markers on them to help with remembering. Still nobody uses it unless I remind them.

Next session we're going to the Abyss. Standard advice when fighting demons as a caster seems to be to focus on buffing your comrades, which in theory I'm suited for, but...yeah.

The one saving grace is that our DM lets us buy whatever we like using the Sane Magic Items price list. Currently I have 1400 gp and scrolls of Revivify, Fog Cloud and Cure Wounds (2). I usually have sole use of our communal Wand of Magic Missiles.

So - with all that out of the way, what do you suggest? Do I just keep reminding people "Remember you're blessed" and risk annoying them? Do I draw to their attention to the fact that they're wasting my spell slots? Are there better ways for me to contribute next session in the Abyss?

Thanks!

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd try verbal reminders for a bit-- "remember you get another 1d4 from Bless!" I doubt they'll be annoyed by having the bonus pointed out.

[MaxWilson]

Hi, looking for, I guess, advice on OOC group dynamics and/or casting tactics.

I'm a 5th-level divine soul sorceror. Most of my spells focus on healing, buffing or crowd control: Bless, Healing Word, Revivify, Lesser Restoration, Web, Suggestion, Enhance Ability. My two damage spells are Firebolt and Toll the Dead. Metamagics are Subtle and Twinned. We play a series of one-shots but most players are the same week to week.

Last week not a single player used their Bless die, despite being blessed for several combat rounds. It's been similar in previous sessions. I name who I'm blessing, type their names in the Roll20 chat, and the DM even puts little markers on them to help with remembering. Still nobody uses it unless I remind them.

Next session we're going to the Abyss. Standard advice when fighting demons as a caster seems to be to focus on buffing your comrades, which in theory I'm suited for, but...yeah.

The one saving grace is that our DM lets us buy whatever we like using the Sane Magic Items price list. Currently I have 1400 gp and scrolls of Revivify, Fog Cloud and Cure Wounds (2). I usually have sole use of our communal Wand of Magic Missiles.

So - with all that out of the way, what do you suggest? Do I just keep reminding people "Remember you're blessed" and risk annoying them? Do I draw to their attention to the fact that they're wasting my spell slots? Are there better ways for me to contribute next session in the Abyss?

Thanks!

Bless is a fairly low-impact spell especially on offense. You can expect it to turn a failure into a success about 1 time in 8 rolls. It's not terrible especially if you're making lots of rolls (e.g. if you've got a pair of Crossbow Expert Sharpshooters putting out 3 attacks each every round plus a warlock spamming Eldritch Blast with two bolts, that Bless equates to an extra hit approximately every round), but you shouldn't feel in any way bad for spending your concentration on other forms of advantage for the party, like Web, especially if players are neglecting to use the Bless die even when it would turn a success into a failure. (Can you confirm that the Bless dice that got ignored were actually relevant? Turning a 17 into a 19 usually has no effect; turning a 2 into a 5 usually has no effect. Maybe the players were mentally doing the math and just not clicking the buttons because they knew Bless wouldn't help--or maybe they just forgot.)

With your spell loadout, I would switch to Web (especially against mobs, and especially if your party has good ranged combatants) and occasionally Suggestion (like "You're clearly overmatched, surrender!") if you think you share a language with a target and if the DM doesn't have a history of making Suggestion work poorly. Consider picking up a couple of spells like Spirit Guardians or Fireball. Keep using Bless in scenarios where it's appropriate, especially if you're getting both offensive and defensive benefits out of it. E.g. if the whole party is fighting a Medusa, Web isn't appropriate, and Suggestion might not work, and Bless will both help you got those extra hits in and minimize the number of people who get petrified, so Bless is fine in that case.

P.S. Dex-based spells like Web are actually pretty decent against demons, especially the lower-level ones that tend not to have magic resistance. You may find this tool useful for exploring what saves to target for specific monster types like Fiends: https://maxwilson.github.io/Simple-SavingThrowGraphsFor5E/

[Satori01]

or switch to the Bane spell, since the DM seems to be on the ball.

[NecessaryWeevil]

or switch to the Bane spell, since the DM seems to be on the ball.

Easier said than done when you're a Sorceror. I've been buying scrolls to expand my repertoire, especially given the upcoming trip to the Abyss, but at some point maybe I need to stop paying to pretend I'm a different character and just play a different character...

[Tvtyrant]

Hi, looking for, I guess, advice on OOC group dynamics and/or casting tactics.

I'm a 5th-level divine soul sorceror. Most of my spells focus on healing, buffing or crowd control: Bless, Healing Word, Revivify, Lesser Restoration, Web, Suggestion, Enhance Ability. My two damage spells are Firebolt and Toll the Dead. Metamagics are Subtle and Twinned. We play a series of one-shots but most players are the same week to week.

Last week not a single player used their Bless die, despite being blessed for several combat rounds. It's been similar in previous sessions. I name who I'm blessing, type their names in the Roll20 chat, and the DM even puts little markers on them to help with remembering. Still nobody uses it unless I remind them.

Next session we're going to the Abyss. Standard advice when fighting demons as a caster seems to be to focus on buffing your comrades, which in theory I'm suited for, but...yeah.

The one saving grace is that our DM lets us buy whatever we like using the Sane Magic Items price list. Currently I have 1400 gp and scrolls of Revivify, Fog Cloud and Cure Wounds (2). I usually have sole use of our communal Wand of Magic Missiles.

So - with all that out of the way, what do you suggest? Do I just keep reminding people "Remember you're blessed" and risk annoying them? Do I draw to their attention to the fact that they're wasting my spell slots? Are there better ways for me to contribute next session in the Abyss?

Thanks!

Ask your DM if you can swap the spell out. In fluff justification is they became so frustrated the spell became warped into a bane spell.

[NecessaryWeevil]

(Can you confirm that the Bless dice that got ignored were actually relevant? Turning a 17 into a 19 usually has no effect; turning a 2 into a 5 usually has no effect. Maybe the players were mentally doing the math and just not clicking the buttons because they knew Bless wouldn't help--or maybe they just forgot.)

Good point. Once or twice that was indeed the case. I'll pay more attention that. Might be a way to avoid reminding them EVERY TIME. ("I doubt you missed by much that time. Try rolling your Bless die.")


With your spell loadout, I would switch to Web (especially against mobs, and especially if your party has good ranged combatants) and occasionally Suggestion (like "You're clearly overmatched, surrender!") if you think you share a language with a target and if the DM doesn't have a history of making Suggestion work poorly.

Yeah, Jury's out on Suggestion in this group. I've used it once so far (in a sort of cutscene) and I'm unsure. We'll see. Thanks.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Ask your DM if you can swap the spell out. In fluff justification is they became so frustrated the spell became warped into a bane spell.

LOL! Maybe I will.

[Jamesps]

You can always roll their bless for them. They roll to hit, you roll your d4 and yell out "Add 2" or the like.

I like to do that with guidance/resistance sometimes.

[Zevox]

I'd try verbal reminders for a bit-- "remember you get another 1d4 from Bless!" I doubt they'll be annoyed by having the bonus pointed out.
This. Bless is just very easy to forget about - I've had the same thing come up both when I've had it from a past group's Cleric and when my allies do from my current Paladin. Hell, I've forgotten about it myself when my Paladin cast it (we're a 3 person party, so he can always include himself). Nobody has ever been bothered when I or another player remind them of it (or another benefit), since it is a benefit, after all.

[johnbragg]

So - with all that out of the way, what do you suggest? Do I just keep reminding people "Remember you're blessed" and risk annoying them?

Yes. One of the improvements from 3X to 5E is that buffing is a less passive experience at the table. Math schmath, rolling a die supplies more dopamine than a static bonus, and if other players aren't 100% on remembering they're blessed, it's your right and duty to remind them. At a physical table, buffing now means you have a focus for your attention when it's their turn. Is Tom picking up a d4 with their d20? If not, verbal reminder.


Still nobody uses it unless I remind them.

And from the other side of the fence, I'm a lot more likely to remember to add a die than to add a sometimes-yes sometimes-no +1 or +2.

Note: The personality type who will be mad that you're nagging him to add the d4 is already adding the d4 so he can WIN. He will resent you nagging him. On the other hand, he is also mad at the other players who are NOT adding the d4 and wasting your resources.


Do I draw to their attention to the fact that they're wasting my spell slots?

If they give you any static, yeah. Don't be a jerk, watch your phrasing. But you're spending your major action one round, a spell slot and your Concentration, so you're entitled to make sure the party doesn't waste it.

[DevilMcam]

Bless is a fairly low-impact spell especially on offense.

I can't really agree with that.

Bless is actually one of the most impactfull spells when it come to offense and provide increased defense and protection vs concentration loss.

It's true that it won't always be relevant. But very few spell have that much impact on damage.

Bless is an average +2.5 to hit which for an average lvl 5 fighter (greatsword wielding vanilla champion, no feats) trying to hit AC 17 turn a "11 out of 20 attack will hit" into a "13.5 out of 20 attack wil hit" wich means 20% damage increase.
and it affects at least 2 party member (if one of the target is the caster) so it grant at least 40% worth of a fighter DPR for a level 1 spell that scale with slots. Haste is a level 3 spell that grant up to 50% of a fighter's DPR (or up to 100% of a rogue DPR).

And Bless also help against Crowd controll effects, AoE damages, keeping concentraion (hex, hunter's mark, are concentration buffs for martials for example), and doesn't have any Drawback if it stops.
at 3rd level (coparison with haste/fireball) it's almost as good as having an extra fighter in your group (assuming you have enough members to make use of the buff) wich does put haste to shame
and is just slightly worse that your arverage fireball against ennemy that are not fire resistant over the course of 3 rounds

[Dork_Forge]

This can be pretty easily remedied as you're playing on Roll20: They can set up global modifiers for Bless that will handle things for them, all they have to do is check a box when you tell them they're blessed and they can forget about it (and subsequently uncheck it afterwards of course).

[MaxWilson]

I can't really agree with that.

Bless is actually one of the most impactfull spells when it come to offense and provide increased defense and protection vs concentration loss.

It's true that it won't always be relevant. But very few spell have that much impact on damage.

I guess this is true too. :)

In the context of this thread, what I'm saying is that the OP shouldn't feel bad about casting Web instead. If you cast Web on three demons and two of the demons make their saves, and one of them gets stuck for two rounds and does nothing while the party kills the other two demons, you probably had a similar or greater impact on the outcome of the combat and the number of HP lost as if you cast Bless to speed up killing. Instead of turning a couple of misses into hits to speed up killing one of the demons, you turned several of one demon's potential hits into nothings (action: try to break free of Web).

Even better of course if more than one demon gets caught in the Web. But that depends on what kinds of demons you're dealing with, and whether your party has e.g. a Repelling Blast warlock who can leverage the Web for greater impact.

[sithlordnergal]

Don't feel bad about reminded people Bless exists. As someone who has made use of Bless, and has it used on him a lot, I forget about Bless more often then I care to admit. As long as making those reminders doesn't annoy you then you should be fine, I can't think of a player that would be annoyed at being told "Hey, you get to add a d4 to that." As for swapping over to Web, that's going to mainly depend on what you're facing. Web is a fine tool to have when you need to pin enemies down in specific circumstances, while Bless is sort of a catch-all buff for nearly every situation.

[Guy Lombard-O]

This can be pretty easily remedied as you're playing on Roll20: They can set up global modifiers for Bless that will handle things for them, all they have to do is check a box when you tell them they're blessed and they can forget about it (and subsequently uncheck it afterwards of course).

I need to look into how to do that on Roll20.

As another who regularly casts Bless when I play a paladin (which I play embarrassingly often), I got annoyed enough by folks regularly forgetting to account for being Blessed that I went and bought a bunch of identical swirly, white & blue d4s, and I just handed them out to the blessed players when I cast the spell. Sort of a "here's your Bless die, put it right in front of you and USE IT!"

Completely aside from finding fun new ways to explore my dice fetish (like having a sack of red d6s for Fireballs, or a bunch of pearly white d8s for Divine Smites), it greatly improved the Bless-awareness and reminder-free usage at the table. Once Covid is back under control, I look forward to handing them out to my friends once again.

[DeadMech]

I regularly remind people at my table in include their bless dice. I wouldn't worry about annoying people. Anyone who get upset about a good faith reminder of a bonus to their character is probably not someone you want to be playing with anyway.

Someone mentioned swapping it out for to bane instead. I highly want to advise against that. The DM may be more on the ball than the players but generally speaking bless is just a superior spell. Allot of demons have positive charisma and a charisma save proficiency bonus on top of magic resistance. Not all of them but allot. If you make bane your go to spell allot of them are going to be resisted.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

When I play a buffer/debuffer I always remind my friends about bless, advantage, extra damage and stuff like that. They know I used my resources for it and understand I have the right to be angry if they won't use it.

You can always tell them that you will bless the enemies the next time they forget about it.
When you will fight blessed demons they will be sure to notice the effect.

They can enable the global modifiers for attacks and save in roll20 5e character sheet (in the gear icon on the top right side)
Just check the box to be able to use them.
You have stuff like
Global attack modifier
Global save modifier
Global ability modifier
Global damage modifier

I am writing it from my phone at work so I may get the names wrong as I use my memory (I do have a nice int modifier but I may roll low).

[BurgerBeast]

The first thing I would suggest, as someone else has already pointed out, is to learn how to easily apply bless using Roll20’s built-in methods (global modifiers or macros), and offer that tidbit up (or ask the DM to).

The second thing is, if the rolls are public, I would (a) remind people when it seems relevant, or (b) throw the d4 myself if it seems relevant.

[da newt]

Roll the d4 yourself - it's your spell, own it.

Role play it to the hilt - "The blessing of Kord (and my selfless spell casting) grant you an extra +# on your attack. You feel the hand of the gods guide your blow. You're welcome!"

[Keravath]

Honestly, it doesn't matter whether you play on line or in person. The one who casts bless almost always finds themselves reminding the folks who received it to roll the d4 ... for to hit and for saving throws ... particularly concentration saving throws or death saving throws.

I've watched it save folks, turn misses into hits, and because it affects so many it is generally very effective. On average it increases the damage of those affected by about 12.5% since the to hit chance increases by 12.5% on average. It's not a game changer like hypnotic pattern can be but it is very useful. Bane is inherently less effective since the target gets a save and since the party is usually outnumbered, bane usually affects a smaller fraction of the opponents than bless does the people in the party ... though I have watched bane be very effective in practice from time to time.

If you are playing on roll20 - the settings page of the character sheet has a check box for "Show global to hit modifiiers" which will add a check box under the weapon box with an option to check a box next to bless so that it will be automatically rolled when making a weapon attack. All they need to do is check on and off the box when affected by bless. There is a similar check box for global save modifiers (bless or resistance) as well as skill modifiers (guidance) so that roll20 can automatically include these effects. Convincing folks to use that check box will simplify the reminding process since once it is checked the d4 will be automatically rolled.

[KorvinStarmast]

So - with all that out of the way, what do you suggest? Do I just keep reminding people "Remember you're blessed" and risk annoying them? I remind the ones I bless when they make an attack. The smart ones build a macro and roll the blessed attack.
It is this easy to make.(example paladin with a war hammer)

/me attacks using {weapon}
[[d4+d20+6]] for [[d8+4]] bludgeoning damage.

(or whatever the addition of ability score and attack mod is, 6 or 5 or 7 or whatever and whatever actual damage type and mod.
When they have bless, they click on that instead of the std attack. It can even by manually inserted into the char sheet as token action.

If you reminding your allies that they need to roll bless, and it annoys them, they are the problem not you.

[GlenSmash!]

I always forget when I'm Blessed and when i have Inspiration Bardic or otherwise. Doesn't matter if I have a visual indicator or not.

A verbal reminder is very appreciated

[Guy Lombard-O]

Honestly, it doesn't matter whether you play on line or in person. The one who casts bless almost always finds themselves reminding the folks who received it to roll the d4 ... for to hit and for saving throws ... particularly concentration saving throws or death saving throws.

And actually, if I'm playing a paladin with an aura I also take it upon myself to remind my companions whenever they're inside my aura and it'll make a difference for their saves/damage. Between auras and Bless, it actually makes me pay more attention to other folks' turns and increases my enjoyment of the game.

Although I'll admit that I do sometimes feel like the old Microsoft "Clippy", annoyingly popping up in the middle of other peoples' actions.

[Seramus]

Swap to spells that require less reminding.

Sanctuary, Guiding Bolt, Shield of Faith, and Protection from Evil are amazing. It also lets you fish for players that care more about the game so you can target them more often in the future.

[sambojin]

Yep. Swap to Guiding Bolt if your DM will let you. 4d6 radiant damage, and someone still gets advantage on the next attack against the foe. Which is a bit better than +d4. And can help some classes use their features a little better than simple +to-hit would anyway. Rogues for instance *always* remember when they do and don't have advantage.

It's not as good as Bless is for sustained combat, but if they're not going to use it anyway, why not roll your own dice and have some fun? At least you won't be wasting your spell slot :)

(can also let you control the flow of combat a little better too. In a "kill that one next!" kinda way)

[Toadkiller]

We have this challenge with things like bless and bardic inspiration. We have taken to handing out dice or Mardi Gras necklaces as reminders. Also the caster/giver of the boon is encouraged to remind people. It is super easy to forget in the moment all the different factors in play.

Buffs can really make a big impact though. It is worth the reminder.

[LordCdrMilitant]

I forget my abilities that give a greater bonus than bless, I can easily see forgetting bless. Stronger similar effects already have a narrow range for turning success into failure.