Make a 4 character party using 16, 16, 16, 8, 8, 8 as stats

[CTurbo]

My friend is DMing for a party that unfortunately I won't be able to play, but I talked him into giving all the players 16,16,16,8,8,8 to use for their stats lol.

What would YOU make with that?

I already know there will be a Mountain Dwarf Barbarian. There is a particular guy that won't be able to resist it.

The fun thing is the group is not allowed to discuss their characters with each other before hand which is interesting. Funny if they all roll Barbs. This same group brought 3 Sorcerers to the table once out of 5 players.

[Christew]

My friend is DMing for a party that unfortunately I won't be able to play, but I talked him into giving all the players 16,16,16,8,8,8 to use for their stats lol.

What would YOU make with that?

I already know there will be a Mountain Dwarf Barbarian. There is a particular guy that won't be able to resist it.

The fun thing is the group is not allowed to discuss their characters with each other before hand which is interesting. Funny if they all roll Barbs. This same group brought 3 Sorcerers to the table once out of 5 players.
I'm not sure I'm getting the challenge/puzzle here. That array is just a boosted version of what you usually see from point buy.

I mean, I'd probably build a caster with 16s in my casting stat, Dex, and Con, but you could effectively build anything that isn't particularly MAD.

[MaxWilson]

My friend is DMing for a party that unfortunately I won't be able to play, but I talked him into giving all the players 16,16,16,8,8,8 to use for their stats lol.

What would YOU make with that?

I already know there will be a Mountain Dwarf Barbarian. There is a particular guy that won't be able to resist it.

The fun thing is the group is not allowed to discuss their characters with each other before hand which is interesting. Funny if they all roll Barbs. This same group brought 3 Sorcerers to the table once out of 5 players.

In my current mood I'd make an Elemonk with Prodigy (Athletics), Dex 17, Wis 17, Str 16, and Stealth, Perception, Athletics, Insight, Survival. (Hermit background.)

Dex 18/Wis 18 at 4th level, then Defensive Duelist at 8.

Yes, I would dump Con (give him asthma), because in my current mood that seems fun, and I'm getting tired of high-Con PCs. Monk is a good chassis on which to do so.

[Arkhios]

Variant Human Fighter (Str 17, Dex 8, Con 17, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 16); Feat: Inspiring Leader

Mountain Dwarf Cleric (Str 18, Dex 8, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8)

Lightfoot Halfling Rogue (Str 8, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 17)

High Elf Wizard (Str 8, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 17, Wis 8, Cha 8)

... At least, that would be the most obvious choice for me.

Here's a little less(?) obvious one (four Mountain Dwarves!)
Paladin (Str 18, Dex 8, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 16)

Cleric (Str 18, Dex 8, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8)

Rogue (Str 10, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8)

Wizard (Str 10, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 8)

[CTurbo]

I'm not sure I'm getting the challenge/puzzle here. That array is just a boosted version of what you usually see from point buy.

I mean, I'd probably build a caster with 16s in my casting stat, Dex, and Con, but you could effectively build anything that isn't particularly MAD.


It just forces them to have some dump stats. This group usually rolls 4d6 drop lowest with re-rolling 1s a long the way which almost always yields really high stats. There really isn't a hook or if anything, it's more that none of them are going to know what each other are building. I just think it's interesting.

[Amechra]

I like the idea that one of them is a Devotion Paladin with 16s in Dex, Con, and Cha. Basically play them like Derek Zoolander.

"What IS this, a crusade for ants!? It needs to be at least... three times holier than this!"

[Corran]

Dangalf the.... bored.
Human Wizard (divination), around the age of ... well, he is older than your typical adventurer.
STR, DEX and CON at 8. Mental stats at 16.

Dangalf spent most of his life working hard for the PCCA (predicting and countering catastrophes agency). Purpose of PCCA? Predict future threats, and try to counter them but without direct involvement (that was rule #1). This was usually done by identifying the right (destined?) heroes for the job, and setting them in the right path. Certainly easier said than done. Never try to prevent the future threat from occuring. That was rule #2, and it tied closely with rule #1. Something about not disrupting the flow of events which would lead to blinding you to the future. Though rule #2 was enforced after that fiasco with Merlin's proactive crap some centuries ago (at least that's when the brand name changed, from PPCA -predicting and preventing- to its current form). Dangalf's job (as a low level employee) was mostly about trying to sort out the prophesies by threat level, while discarding the fake ones. A boring job. But important. Had to be done accurately and swiftly. Time was of the essence always. You want to count on a group of proper heroes that were set on a path where every difficulty made them ready for eventually defeating the Tarrasque (that was predicted to rise 5 years in advance), or did you want to improvise and count on fast Tim because you found out that the Tarrasque would wake up just 1 week before it happened? After his last promotion, he worked on the field more. Nothing too exciting. Had to come in contact with heroes a lot. Usually in the form of handing quests. Certainly less boring than his previous job, but man, sometimes it was irritating. Some heroes were too reluctant, others too afraid. But all that was in the past now. At least since last month, when Dangalf retired. But sitting in his beautiful little garden of his country house the other day, he couldn't help but to feel curious, if not a little regretful. All these years close to adventure but never actively taking part in it. He was the one doing the heavy lifting behind the curtain, while others had all the excitement. His mind was made up. He would do this adventuring thing himself. How hard could it be anyway? As long as he didnt forget to take his morning herbs everything would be just fine.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Mountain Dwarf, Soldier, Barbarian, Zealot, 16 in Str, Dex, and Con. This is probably the most obvious one. Put together a stereotype Slayer (Warhammer) background for him and you're all set.

Deep Gnome, Urchin, Wizard, Abjuration, 16 in Dex, Con, and Int, pick the scholar's pack and swap the book of lore for thieves' tools. This fills two roles in case nobody brings one or the other to the table.

Tortle, Far Traveler, Cleric, Grave domain, 16 in Str, Con, and Wis. Pick Insight as a Cleric proficiency and switch it to Stealth since the background grants that. Clerics are good, particularly when they can frontline while keeping a hand free thanks to his claws, and the grave domain also adds Wis to cantrip damage.

Scourge Aasimar, Spy, Warlock, the Celestial, Pact of the Tome, 16 in Dex, Con, and Cha. Good sustainability with short-rest heals, plan to get Inspiring Leader as well.


That's one character specializing in each mental ability score, there's two frontliners, two characters who can heal, and everyone's decent to excellent at ranged attacks. There's two characters who can use thieves' tools, and nobody has disadvantage to stealth.

[SLOTHRPG95]

Dragonborn (probably Red) Oath of Conquest Paladin, starting with Str 18 Dex 8 Con 16 Int 8 Wis 8 Cha 17, with first ASI going to Dragon Fear to get an extra AoE fear effect per short rest and to bump Charisma to 18. Values sheer strength and presence over finesse or complex tactics. Voted "most likely to be leading a barbarian horde in 10 years" by their graduating class.

Alternatively, since there was someone (can't remember who) on the recent rolled vs. point buy thread who kept saying that Gnome Fighters never happened, maybe a Forest Gnome Eldritch Knight. Str 8 Dex 17 Con 16 Int 18 Wis 8 Cha 8, with either Squat Nimbleness or Fade Away as the first ASI (bringing Dex to 18). Pretty standard Dex-based S&B EK, but with a bit of the illusionist's flair, and of course Advantage on mental saves if they're vs. magic makes me feel a lot better about dumping Wis.

Edit: and to round out the party, a Half-Orc War Cleric (Str 18 Con 17 Wis 16) with Resilient (Con) and GWF as their first ASIs, and a Mountain Dwarf Fiend Bladelock (Str 18 Con 18 Cha 16) with Heavily Armored and HAM as first ASIs.

[Emongnome777]

Half-elf hexblade: Str, Wis, Int are 8s, Cha 18, Dex and Con 17 (both to 18 at 4th). Or hexadin, etc.

[Eldariel]

Vuman Cleric with Observant. 18 Wis, 16 Dex, 17 Con is pretty sweet (though 16 Str meleecric could also be nice, but Dex penalty is pretty much always discouraged). Honestly, I feel like this array just forces you to pick a class that focuses on single stat. Then you just pick Dex and Con as your other two stats and go to town. This really hurts Rogues, Eldritch Knights, etc.

[Arkhios]

Vuman Cleric with Observant. 18 Wis, 16 Dex, 17 Con is pretty sweet (though 16 Str meleecric could also be nice, but Dex penalty is pretty much always discouraged). Honestly, I feel like this array just forces you to pick a class that focuses on single stat. Then you just pick Dex and Con as your other two stats and go to town. This really hurts Rogues, Eldritch Knights, etc.

Only thing that "discourages" Dex penalty are saving throws, initiative checks, and some skills a cleric won't have, or be good at, anyway. Str 15+ and heavy armor proficiency is quite enough to offset the other irrelevant "problems". Besides, wearing heavy armor would make one of the dexterity skills even worse choice anyway.

Not sure how this hurts Rogues or Eldritch Knights to be entirely honest.

Rogues could have Dex 16, Con 16, and any one of int, wis, or cha at 16. Even if you chose Charisma, you are proficient with Intelligence saves, and you can still take proficiency in intelligence and wisdom skills. And you can have expertise in the ones you really think you need. Such as, maybe, Investigation and Perception. +3 is a good enough bonus at first level, and it gets better by two each tier!

Likewise, Eldritch Knight is a fighter, and could wear heavy armor (having no more problems as a cleric), choose spells that don't need intelligence, and have high wisdom.
Or they could have Dex 16, Con 16, Wis 16.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'm not sure I'm getting the challenge/puzzle here. That array is just a boosted version of what you usually see from point buy.

I mean, I'd probably build a caster with 16s in my casting stat, Dex, and Con, but you could effectively build anything that isn't particularly MAD.

That's my thought process, too. -1 to some saves isn't going to be enough to stop me from being an exceptionally optimized Monk, Paladin, or Cleric. If I'm that worried about saves, I'll be a gnome.

[Wraith]

Pretty hard for me not to consider a Circle of the Moon Druid, to be honest.

Dump all three of your physical stats then wildshape into a Tiger or Brown Bear so it doesn't even matter any more. There is a downside in that you won't be casting a lot of spells, but even if all you're doing is buffing the party, concentrating on a buff for yourself and then some light healing after the fight has concluded, you're contributing to the group and have some utility stuff in your pocket should you need it.

For a race, I'd suggest something like Yuan-ti. Bumps to INT and CHA stay relevant even when wildshaped, and being Magical Resistant/Poison Immune is always pretty good. Tieflings and Aasimar are also quite good for similar reasons, and their cantrips/racial abilities also give you things to do if you feel like wildshaping is beneath you in a minor encounter.

[opaopajr]

All Wild Magic Sorcerors using those stats straight down: STR 16, DEX 16, CON 16, INT 8, WIS 8, CHA 8. Choose Variant Humans to have early Feat madness, and then contemplate some goofy dinkery thereafter. (I mean, sure we can all choose Sharpshooters and explore the Tides of Chaos together, but don't you wanna dream bigger?! :smallcool:)

Ooh, do we get optional Inspiration turned on? :smalltongue: Let's 'asplode together!

[Eldariel]

Only thing that "discourages" Dex penalty are saving throws, initiative checks, and some skills a cleric won't have, or be good at, anyway. Str 15+ and heavy armor proficiency is quite enough to offset the other irrelevant "problems". Besides, wearing heavy armor would make one of the dexterity skills even worse choice anyway.

There's no reason a Cleric couldn't be good at those skills. Stealth in particular is probably the strongest offensive skill in the game if built for, and Clerics just so happen to have Enhance Ability in their spell list to boot (Pass without Trace for e.g. Trickery too). But the big thing is, Initiative on spellcasters is awesome: if you get the first big spell off before enemy you might just negate the encounter entirely or at least largely mitigate the large amount of pain that would come in should you lose Initiative instead. Con and Dex are just universally the best stats combat-wise (with Wis trailing slightly behind); if you have to pick stats to dump, the best stats to dump are Str/Int and Cha in about that order. Any other dump order will hurt you in some key aspect (though of course, non-Wis casters will have to suck up having poor Perception and Wis-saves and Str-warriors will have to suck up either the same or having terrible ranged attacks, Initiative, and stealth skills).

Nobody can afford 8 Con and few characters want terrible Initiative.


It hurts Eldritch Knights, Rogues and company in that e.g. Rogue can't be good at many mental stats and Eldritch Knights are forced into Dex-focus (cutting away i.a. PAM and GWM) or not having any Int. Of course, Eldritch Knights and Rogues can still work but a lot of their options are cut away. Bard similarly suffers from not having access to decent Wis and Int for a variety of skills.

[KorvinStarmast]

Re: Make a 4 character party using 16, 16, 16, 8, 8, 8 as stats

Cleric, High Elf - S 16 D 10 C 16 I 9 W 16 Ch 8 I'll go Tempest; Cantrip = Ray of Frost
Wizard Sorcerer, half elf, Draconic - S 8 D 16 Con 16 Int 9 Wis 9 Cha 18.
Paladin, vHuman, Vengeance: S 16 Dex 10 Con 16 Int 8 Wis 9 Cha 16 feat resilient dex
Rogue - Forest Gnome, Scout; S 8 D 17 Con 16 Int 10, Wis 16 Cha 8

[JellyPooga]

If I were able to dictate the entire party comp, then I'd be very tempted to do something like;

Half-Orc Rogue
Half-Orc Barbarian
Half-Orc Fighter
Half-Orc Paladin

All with Str 16/Dex 16/Con 16/Int 8/Wis 8/Cha 8 except the Paladin who has Dex 8/Cha 16 and is ridiculed by the rest of the raiding band for being the clumsy one, even though (or because) he's their natural leader.

[sambojin]

Firbolg Druid infiltration party.

8+1Str/ 16Dex/ 16Con/ 8Int/ 16+2Wis/ 8Cha

One of Moon, Land (Grasslands), Shepherd and Stars Druids. So a frontliner, a caster, a summoner/buffer and a shooter.

All fairly short for Firbolgs (6'4", so they can disguise down to 3'4", and up to 7'4", which is virtually any humanoid race).

They regularly run around under Disguise Self, being all kinds of other sorts of adventuring parties, work gangs, soldier patrols, tinkerers, merchants, etc. Or they wildshape into basic cattle, horses, domestic animals, etc at lvl2. They can all talk to all the animals, and feed the poor with Good Berries. They gain access-to and trust-in any area. Then, BAM! Nature happens, your entire village disappears, and all the magic items are gone.

Actually pretty well supported in lore as "a thing that happens".

[CTurbo]

Ok the 4 characters have been turned in to my friend a night ahead of their first session and the results are in.....

I wasn't very clear about this, but the FUN thing about this is that the players had no idea what each other were bringing to the table.

They're starting at level 4


Mountain Dwarf Wolf Totem Barbarian 18 Str, 16 Dex, 18 Con, GWM at level 4

Goliath Bear Totem Barbarian 18 Str, 16 Dex, 17 Con, GWM at level 4

Dragonborn Devotion Paladin 18 Str, 16 Con, 17 Cha, GWM at level 4

Hill Dwarf Open Hand Monk, 18 Dex, 18 Con, 17 Wis, +2 Dex at level 4


THAT is hilarious. They are going to be a beast in melee at least. Wish I could be there to see them fight over the first magic greataxe they come across lol

[Lupine]

All hexadins.

[XmonkTad]

Ok the 4 characters have been turned in to my friend a night ahead of their first session and the results are in.....

I was really hoping someone would play a Kobold for that juicy 6 strength. Or a full orc wizard with 6 int. Looks like your party gets to arm wrestle everyone they meet instead.

[Man_Over_Game]

It kinda makes sense. If I were told I could afford 3 high stats, the obvious course of action would be to play a MAD melee combatant of some kind, as those are the most strained in terms of stats.

[CTurbo]

It kinda makes sense. If I were told I could afford 3 high stats, the obvious course of action would be to play a MAD melee combatant of some kind, as those are the most strained in terms of stats.

Yeah 3 out of 4 of those guys usually play well thought out characters not necessarily min-maxed for anything in particular, and the other guy is your typical munchkin. Funnily enough 2 of them was sure the other was going to play a full caster so they chose to be a Barb and the other a Monk.

[opaopajr]

CTurbo, that is an awesome party. They all chose three physical stat PCs. :smalltongue: You know what you have to do now -- you have to provide them magical and silvered weapons of all different sorts! :smallbiggrin: Ooh, and have them fight over an item that boosts WIS! How about invent a Whip of Reconsideration, boosting WIS when wielded?

[sambojin]

The Paladin will feel pretty special. S/He's the party's main caster and healer (and probably could be, considering they probably won't have to ever use smite spell slots unless they crit, for party dpr).

Almost a pity they didn't go Vengeance pally. They'd be the party's main controller character as well, even with just the occasional Hold Person for mega-melee crits next level, and a bit of frighten with divinities.

[ezekielraiden]

I know it's a bit late for the challenge, but if I were to do this myself, I'd probably go:

Dragonborn Ancients Paladin (dump Dex, Int, Wis)
Eladrin Divination Wizard (dump Str, Con, Cha)
Tiefling Hexblade Warlock (dump Str, Wis, Int)
Hill Dwarf Forge Cleric (dump Dex, Int, Cha)

No stat is dumped by more than two characters, there's a competent spread of options, and the squishy back-line Wizard benefits from a solid front line. An alternative for the Cleric would be a Mountain Dwarf Moon Druid with the same dump stats: starting with 18 Str/Con makes for an absolute powerhouse. If a fifth party member were available, then I'd either take both the Cleric and Druid, or one of the two (probably the Druid) and a Half-Elf Lore Bard (dump Str, Int, Wis). The former has an extremely solid front line and has very few powerful spells it can't access, but may be a little overly support-heavy and weak on skills; the latter will be weak on its Wisdom saves, but keeping the Wizard and Bard close behind the Paladin will help address that, plus it features all of the strongest crowd-control, debuffing, and area-denial abilities.

[CTurbo]

They had their first encounter last weekend and he threw a Troll at them as their first combat which they quickly decimated, but then found they did not have the means or know how to kill it. The Monk had to run to the closest town to find out how to kill it(came back with acid vials) as the other 3 stood around it repeatedly smacking it back to 0. I think it was a perfect first encounter. Obviously they are beasts in melee, but they apparently fumbled through a lot of the non-combat challenges. I really wish I had they time to join them.

[Eldariel]

I know it's a bit late for the challenge, but if I were to do this myself, I'd probably go:

Dragonborn Ancients Paladin (dump Dex, Int, Wis)
Eladrin Divination Wizard (dump Str, Con, Cha)
Tiefling Hexblade Warlock (dump Str, Wis, Int)
Hill Dwarf Forge Cleric (dump Dex, Int, Cha)

No stat is dumped by more than two characters, there's a competent spread of options, and the squishy back-line Wizard benefits from a solid front line. An alternative for the Cleric would be a Mountain Dwarf Moon Druid with the same dump stats: starting with 18 Str/Con makes for an absolute powerhouse. If a fifth party member were available, then I'd either take both the Cleric and Druid, or one of the two (probably the Druid) and a Half-Elf Lore Bard (dump Str, Int, Wis). The former has an extremely solid front line and has very few powerful spells it can't access, but may be a little overly support-heavy and weak on skills; the latter will be weak on its Wisdom saves, but keeping the Wizard and Bard close behind the Paladin will help address that, plus it features all of the strongest crowd-control, debuffing, and area-denial abilities.

Dumping the Con on the Wizard feels extremely suspect: Concentration bonus of -1 means most spells will be lost whenever even slight area damage happens and of course, -1 HP per level with a base die of d6 makes for a total HP of "one crit straight-up kills me" even on level 5+ where most characters have escaped the danger (average HP on level 5 would be 17; 34 damage would be enough to take him from full to dead and that's just one crit from a Mummy or some such - hell, Mummy could accidentally kill it with Mummy Rot even if it had HP). I don't think a frontline of 3 would suffice to give him even decent probability of staying alive.

[Aaron Underhand]

Cleric, High Elf - S 16 D 10 C 16 I 9 W 16 Ch 8 I'll go Tempest; Cantrip = Ray of Frost


Trouble is your cantrip uses Int

[da newt]

DM should ensure he drops plenty of magic rapiers, daggers, staff/wands, scrolls, etc ...

[GreyBlack]

4 bards. One plays the drums, one plays a guitar, one plays a bass, one is the lead singer.

Travel around the world in your wagon solving mysteries.

Bard 1: Lead singer. Glamour bard. 8/16/16/8/8/16. Can handle his liquor and is resistant to disease, but doesn't help move things and thinks of himself as the leader.

Bard 2: Bass. College of Whispers. 16/8/16/8/8/16. Doesn't talk a lot but gets information well.

Bard 3: Drums. Swords bard. 16/8/16/8/8/16. Dumb as a post and hits things hard.

Bard 4: Lead Guitar. Lore Bard. 8/16/16/8/8/16. Can name all of the obscure bands, is probably the most versatile member of the band.