[VERY WIP] Juu-Kata, the Way of Smoke and Steel

[Primal Fury]

The idea I had to simply put my own spin on something (namely Gun Kata as a martial discipline) has ballooned into it's own subsystem in my head.

I would be taking a bit in the way of basic structure from sirpercival's Bladecraft system (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?504943-Heron-Marked-The-Art-of-Bladecraft), in that it would work independently of one's class, instead being tied to a skill and Base Attack Bonus, ensuring that this system is mostly reserved for those with combat focused classes.

It would differ from Bladecraft and Martial Disciplines chiefly by how its forms work. Rather than gaining a host of forms across levels, there would only be four, all of which would be gained at once. These forms, called "Patterns," scale with the character's Base Attack Bonus. I'm still working on the exact mechanical bonuses, but each Pattern is meant to serve a different purpose. Close Quarters Conflict Pattern is ideal for dueling in melee and taking down heavily armored foes (think John Wick). Gunslinger is all about stylish gun play and essentially taking foes off-guard. Run & Gun is all about high defense and mobility, and is REALLY good for chasing down fleeing enemies. Finally, the Traditional Pattern is best for taking on a large group of foes (look at Equilibrium).

In addition, these Patterns don't function like forms from the aforementioned systems do.

Dynamic Pattern Transition: Unlike many other martial arts practitioners, Juu-Kataka are not trained to think about what stance they want to enter, or even to flow from one to another as part of their techniques; practitioners of the Way of Smoke and Steel are taught, through nightmarish and painful practice, to shift to a new pattern in response to a change in the battlefield. In mechanical terms, the shift is happening so quickly that it happens as part of the action that triggered it, essentially making it a non-action. Each of the four patterns has a set of triggers that forces practitioner into it as soon as they experience it, though they can prevent the transition by succeeding on a DC X Juu-Kata check.

Close Quarters Conflict

An opponent entering your threatened space
Entering an opponent's threatened space

Gunslinger

Sheathing your firearms
(I need a second one for this)

Run & Gun

Succeeding on a Tumble check
Move X feet in a single move action

Traditional

Having an opponent miss you with a ranged attack
Taking a 5 ft step


As far as individual abilities, the techniques are called "Tactics" and are organized into three categories: Offensive (called "Bursts"), Defensive (called "Braces"), and movement-based (called "Blitzes"). These tactics would be organized into four levels: Fundamental, Intermediate, Advanced, and Expert.

Each tactic, rather than being limited to which Pattern you have active, has its own set of Pattern Recognitions--that is, different effects based on which Pattern is active. One of the Fundamental Tactics is Dodge Roll; if, for some reason, none of your Patterns are active, it would simply allow you to roll twice on a Reflex save and take the better result, with the addition of a little movement (maybe, not sure yet). With the addition of Pattern Recognition, however, the following effects are possible:


CQC: Rather than moving away, you initiate a grapple with an enemy within reach. If you beat their grapple check, you automatically succeed on the Reflex save and your grappled foe automatically fails theirs. If your grapple check fails, you are still allowed a single Reflex save, though you do take a -4 penalty to it
Gunslinger: As part of this action, launch a firearms attack against an enemy within range that must also make a Reflex save against the effect. If the attack hits, they take a penalty to their own Reflex save
Run & Gun: You gain the benefits of the Evasion ability. If your movement takes you out of the area of effect, instead gain the benefits of the Improved Evasion ability.
Traditional: Rather than an additional save, you gain a Juu-Kata die as a bonus to your Reflex save (This one doesn't feel quite right)


One of the issues I'm having is how to prevent players from using the same tactics over and over again. For the moment at least, tactics are usable at will, and don't change the Pattern you're in.

So could this be a thing?

[Elves]

though they can prevent the transition by succeeding on a DC X Juu-Kata check.
Just make it either mandatory, voluntary, come with a cost, or have a distinct point at which it becomes voluntary. Checks like this end up being obnoxious at the best of times and 3.5's skill system is so borked it just wouldn't work.

The stances that change based on trigger actions are a really cool idea.


Close Quarters

An opponent entering your threatened space
Entering an opponent's threatened space

Duelist

Sheathing your firearms
Having an opponent miss you with a ranged attack

Run & Gun

Succeeding on a Tumble check
Taking a run action or a double move action

Mass Fire
??.
My edits suggested above.


As far as individual abilities, the techniques are called "Tactics" and are organized into three categories: Offensive (called "Bursts"), Defensive (called "Braces"), and movement-based (called "Blitzes"). These tactics would be organized into four levels: Fundamental, Intermediate, Advanced, and Expert.
So it's like a mix of invocations/mysteries and maneuvers?
Maybe just keep the strike/counter/boost/rush terminology to eliminate redundancy?


Each tactic, rather than being limited to which Pattern you have active, has its own set of Pattern Recognitions--that is, different effects based on which Pattern is active.
This sounds like it could easily go overboard when you have 4 stances. For your sanity I would recommend either having this mean that you have a very small list of abilities (1 of each type per tier?), with the stance-based modification being the main source of variety, or not requiring each tactic to have modifications for all 4 forms.

[Primal Fury]

Just make it either mandatory, voluntary, come with a cost, or have a distinct point at which it becomes voluntary. Checks like this end up being obnoxious at the best of times and 3.5's skill system is so borked it just wouldn't work.

The stances that change based on trigger actions are a really cool idea.
That's actually a good point. If I enforce the pattern switching, that, together with tactics only having recognition with certain patterns, might alleviate my concerns about spamming tactics.


My edits suggested above.
I'm not sure about the name changes, but it might be a good idea to scrap the Traditional pattern and roll it into Gunslinger. Another issue I've been having is finding something for the Traditional pattern to do with recognition.


So it's like a mix of invocations/mysteries and maneuvers?
Kind of, yeah.


Maybe just keep the strike/counter/boost/rush terminology to eliminate redundancy?
How do you mean?


This sounds like it could easily go overboard when you have 4 stances. For your sanity I would recommend either having this mean that you have a very small list of abilities (1 of each type per tier?), with the stance-based modification being the main source of variety, or not requiring each tactic to have modifications for all 4 forms.
I think limiting the pattern recognition is a good way to go. I really want to give ranged fighters/rangers progressively more interesting and varied options, and that seems the best way to do it.

Thanks for the feedback! How does Dodge Roll sound by the way?

[Elves]

I think it sounds cool. You could link it to evasion. "Whenever your evasion ability is triggered you can forgo its normal benefit and instead immediately Tumble for half the normal distance your check would allow". Could be cinematic for rolling out of AOEs while making it a choice vs normal evasion benefits rather than a pure additive.

Sounds like "traditional" is AOE focused so renaming and refocusing it as such would make sense to distinguish vs gunslinger.

[Primal Fury]

I think it sounds cool. You could link it to evasion. "Whenever your evasion ability is triggered you can forgo its normal benefit and instead immediately Tumble for half the normal distance your check would allow". Could be cinematic for rolling out of AOEs while making it a choice vs normal evasion benefits rather than a pure additive.
This isn't for a specific class; it's an independent system character's can buy into. That was something I really liked about the Bladecraft sub-system. To wit, I've tied this to BAB to incentivise more combat-focused classes with fewer dynamic options.

[Primal Fury]

Alright, I think I figured out how I want each Pattern to function, at least at the first level.

Close Quarters Conflict

Do not provoke attacks of opportunity for using firearms in melee. Use one-handed firearms as light, bludgeoning melee weapons that deal 1d6 damage.

Gunslinger

+2 bonus to Initiative checks. Including the sheathing used to trigger this pattern, sheathing your firearms automatically reloads them, so long as you have the necessary ammunition.

Run & Gun

You gain an extra move action per turn, but cannot gain another move action by sacrificing your standard action. Using the Run action does not deprive you of your Dexterity bonus to AC.

Traditional

Gain an additional firearms attack per turn, at the cost of a -2 penalty to all attacks made during the turn. Whenever you take a 5 ft step, including the one that triggered the Pattern, gain a +2 bonus to AC until your next turn; this does not stack with itself.

CQC and Run & Gun make sense by themselves, I think, but Gunslinger and Traditional might require a bit of an explanation.

While I haven't finished the Dark Tower series, I've always been interested in the way Roland describes reloading his guns. Actually seeing pieces of the Dark Tower movie recently wowed me with how they portrayed these tricks, so I think that sheathing firearms to reload them makes sense for those who have had such techniques drilled into them. As for the initiative bonus, I always think of movie gunslingers as prepared to fight at the drop of a hat, so much so that the Pattern would be active pretty much from the moment the practitioner gets out of bed, a bonus to initiative makes sense to me. So, in addition to trick shots, I would think that the Gunslinger pattern would also be good for initiating combat with singular foes and ending it quickly, like iaido for samurai.

The Traditional pattern is the closest to hand-to-hand martial arts, so much so that it possess actual forms. Each five-foot step is meant to represent a shift into the next step of the form, changing their profile and making them more difficult to hit, but also requiring them to continue through their forms if they want to keep getting the benefits.

EDIT: I actually don't feel super great about the effect for Run & Gun, so I'll need to rethink it.

EDIT: That feels a little better. Moving faster doesn't seem as good as moving MORE, if that makes any sense.

[Durazno]

Minor note, but it might make more sense to say "holstering" instead of "sheathing" your firearms.

[Primal Fury]

Excellent catch. Thanks Durazno.

[Elves]

Still not clear to me what Traditional is supposed to represent. I don't think you need a "baseline" stance or vanilla effect -- each stance can have a particular function -- that compels the player to make a choice. For the same reason, I also wouldn't have people start combat in a stance effect; adds more weight to their first turn each encounter since their action will determine what stance they enter.


Edit: I realize in at least two cases their enemies' actions might determine that for them; my point is IMO you don't need a vanilla effect you start in absent any input.

[Primal Fury]

Traditional is supposed to be Equilibrium (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U02E2sjwlLM), representing how the first masters of Juu-Kata fought similarly to other martial artists, essentially just adding guns. I admit though, I am having a bit of trouble making it feel... distinct.

I'm honestly not sure what you mean. Why shouldn't the patterns have base-line effects?

[Elves]

I meant that having a "vanilla" style (Traditional) may be less interesting than if each style is specialized to a niche. That's why I recommended making it the AOE style earlier. The other thing is that if you have a strong vanilla effect like the extra attack, that makes the specialized styles less appealing (you could counter that by making the triggered stance switching mandatory, but then it becomes annoying and people will try to avoid the trigger effects.)

[Primal Fury]

AoE IS the niche, that's what the extra attack was for. But what if... it was an ACTUAL AoE... Rather than regular attacks, you unleash hails of bullets in a particular shape. Not in a large area, obviously, that's what tactics are for. But like... if opponents within that area fail a Reflex save, they take damage based on your firearm, and take half if they succeed. In this Pattern, you turn guns into splash weapons.

Also. I understand your point a bit better, but I do still want to have some decent base effects for the Patterns. I'll meet you half-way and get rid of the scaling, replacing it with effects that are generally useful, but not as powerful as I originally intended.

[Primal Fury]

Here we go. THIS is what Traditional is supposed to feel like. Thanks to Elves for pushing the idea of AoE. For some reason, that wasn't getting through, and all I could think of was attacking multiple targets.

Spray & Pray: Your regular firearm attacks are replaced with a hail of bullets that effect a 5 ft area burst. Those within this area must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 BAB + Higher of Dexterity or Intelligence modifier), or take damage equal to your firearms normal damage plus one Juu-Kata die; success reduces the damage by half. Using this attack while wielding a single firearm requires you to spend a full "clip" of ammunition, meaning you must reload afterwards; using this attack while duel wielding firearms only uses have the ammunition in each firearm.

I'm considering adding the option to, while dual-wielding, increase the area to a 10 ft burst and spend all the ammo from both firearms, but I think that might be too much.

EDIT: Also. I'm having trouble with coming up with a better name for Gunslinger. I need something that encapsulates that patterns ability to draw and shoot quickly, perform amazing trick shots, and just end fights with single dudes super fast. Duelist is good, but missing something. Gunslinger has all that, but that could fit better elsewhere. Quick Draw? Showdown? I don't know...

[Elves]

Fast draw? so no feat confusion. showdown is cinematic but vague.

[Primal Fury]

What about... "Dead Eye"? Aim so good all you have to do is draw and shoot, resulting in VERY fast attacks. Aim so good you can bounce bullets around and hit dudes from unexpected angles. Aim so good you know JUST the right spot to put a round to lay someone out for good.

[Elves]

Sure, wrapping accuracy into ST makes sense.

[Primal Fury]

Since I moved the "opponent missing you with a ranged attack trigger" to Dead Eye, the Spary & Pray pattern has no triggers. I need one the character can do themselves, and one their opponent's can do to force them into it. I had the idea that gunslingers usually say something quippy and badass to throw their foes off when their about to do something REALLY cool, but a demoralize action doesn't feel quite right. I also thought of the gunslinger reciting an actual prayer, but there's no "prayer action" in the rules.

[Elves]

Maybe that one should just be voluntary, the obvious involuntary trigger is a certain density of oppos but that will very quickly get annoying to always count.

Maybe shift second run and gun trigger to taking double move action? Otherwise it penalizes speed.

[Primal Fury]

Maybe that one should just be voluntary, the obvious involuntary trigger is a certain density of oppos but that will very quickly get annoying to always count.
Maybe, but there's GOTTA be a way to do it elegantly enough to fit, though I still need way to enter it willingly.


Maybe shift second run and gun trigger to taking double move action? Otherwise it penalizes speed.
That makes a lot of sense actually. It'll still work the way I want it to without messing up your movement.

[Primal Fury]

Maybe that one should just be voluntary, the obvious involuntary trigger is a certain density of oppos but that will very quickly get annoying to always count.
After thinking about it a little more, you may be right. I think I'll split the different and have the transition happen when a readied standard attack action is triggered. That makes it a bit more difficult to get into (which it should be considering it gives you an at-will AoE attack), but doesn't force the character to lose their action so long as they're thinking tactically. It could even be construed as pausing to pray while taking aim.

Though I am stuck between JUST readying the action and requiring the action to be triggered.

It also helps inform the pattern recognition in some cases, like Stopping Power (which allows the gunslinger to respond to a charge with an attack that could stop it) granting multiple chances to stop the charge at the cost of a penalty to each attempt.

[Primal Fury]

Okay, so now that I've finally finished how Patterns work, here's a rough skeleton of how tactics would work. Here's my first Burst: Cheap Shot.

Cheap Shot
Action: Standard

Launch a firearm attack at an enemy that is flat-footed against you. If your attack hits, roll damage twice and take the better result. Whether your attack hits or misses, you cannot target them with this tactic again for the remainder of the encounter.

CQC: Rather than rolling damage twice if your attack hits, you may force your target to roll a Fortitude save. If they fail, they are stunned until the end of their next turn. In addition, you may use this tactic through either a melee attack or a firearm attack; you may also use this tactics against a target you are flanking.
Dead Eye: Rather than rolling for damage twice if your attack hits, you may increase the critical threat range of your attack by one.
Run & Gun: Rather than rolling for damage twice, you force your target to make a Fortitude save or have their movement reduced by half.
Spray & Pray: If an opponent triggers your readied standard attack action, they suffer a penalty to their Reflex save equal to one Juu-Kata die.


I'm toying around with the idea of having the Dead Eye pattern recognition allow the gunslinger to roll twice in addition to increasing the critical threat range.

For reference, the Juu-Kata skill grants dice to actions based on the gunslinger's ranks in it. Have a look.



Ranks
Dice


1-4
1d4


5-8
1d6


9-12
1d8


13-16
1d4+1d6


17-20
1d6+1d6


21-24
1d8+1d6


25-28
1d4+2d6


29-32
1d6+2d6


33-36
1d8+2d6

[Elves]

Suggestions

- Maximize base damage instead of roll twice. Easier.

- Add auto-confirm to Dead Eye

- I don't get the flavor behind the Run & Gun effect


The skill will be mandatory for users of the system so why not just link it to character level?

Dice figures - simplify. IIRC, normal die size scaling is 1d2>1d3>1d4>1d6>1d8>1d10>2d6>3d6>4d6>etc

CQC needing an acronym is a bad sign, shorten to Close Quarters?

[Primal Fury]

- Maximize base damage instead of roll twice. Easier.
Not a bad idea.


- Add auto-confirm to Dead Eye
Got it.


- I don't get the flavor behind the Run & Gun effect
That one is more of a place-holder. I'm not sure about how I actually want it to work.


The skill will be mandatory for users of the system so why not just link it to character level?
I like the idea of treating it as something you need to practice and invest resources into, like the Iaijutsu Focus skill.


Dice figures - simplify. IIRC, normal die size scaling is 1d2>1d3>1d4>1d6>1d8>1d10>2d6>3d6>4d6>etc
That's probably better. But does it always skip from 1d10 to 2d6?


CQC needing an acronym is a bad sign, shorten to Close Quarters?
It doesn't need an acronym, but how can I pass up the opportunity to shorten Close Quarters Combat to CQC? It sounds cool.