Phantasmal Strangler: Understanding & Optimizing the Spell

[Quiet Wizard]

Hey Gang.

I was looking at the Phantasmal Strangler spell from Complete Mage. It's a 3rd level Illusion (Phantasm) [Fear, Mind-Affecting] spell.

I love the concept and the visuals. The spell has historically been recommended as a "good" illusion debuff spell over the years (in a number of forums, per a Google search). Although I've not seen anyone talk about the minutiae of its game mechanics or optimized ways to use it in combat. And for the life of me, I can't see why it is considered to be a good spell except for maybe its ability to sometimes give action economy advantages.

Can someone explain why this spell is useful and in what combat scenarios you would use it? Maybe some combo suggestions as well?

Finally, how would you optimize it via metamagic feats, class abilities, etc?

----

(My new 7th level illusionist would like to take this spell adventuring soon!)

[InvisibleBison]

I've never heard of this spell before, but it seems to me that it's a good spell because the target is grappled for 5 rounds, which enormously limits their ability to fight and makes it easier to attack them. In what way do you think it's lacking?

[Afghanistan]

someone explain why this spell is useful and in what combat scenarios you would use it? Maybe some combo suggestions as well?

The most obvious benefit is that it grapples the target instantly against their Will Save making it extremely potent at knocking out martials and non-casters from a fight, which at 5th level onward you should be encountering all too often enough to justify having this spell around.

After the creature is grappled, they take 2d6 damage. The only action they may take is any action they can take during a grapple, which is limited (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#ifYoureGrappling). Any action spent trying to escape the grapple is an action not spent attacking you or your allies. Over the duration of the spell, your victim can escape by making a grapple check against a creature with a grapple modifier just as good as the victim in question, which makes it scale with level. Finally, you can easily get out about 10d6 damage against a victim just having them be grappled for the entire duration, if at any point this brings them down to -1hp (unconscious), they are essentially out of the fight, which brings me to my next point.


Finally, how would you optimize it via metamagic feats, class abilities, etc?

Extended Phantasmal Strangler, does all of the above, however deals a maximum of 20d6 damage against a victim.

[Kaleph]

I agree with everything being said, and can try to provide some more information, to make it even clearer.

So you target the victim, and if it fails its will save it's grappled, even if it is a huge brute with +100 grapple modifier (but the spell is a SR:yes, mind affecting/fear effect, so a lot of things will be immune).

Already on this round the victim suffers 2d6 damage, which is ok. What's better, is that it is now grappled and so loses its dexterity bonus to AC, which alone may be in some cases a useful debuff, and is subject to sneak attacks. Also, it doesn't threaten an area.

On its turn it gets at least an attempt to escape the grapple as a standard action, so it has basically lost one round. The ugly thing, is that it now has 50% chance to escape, actually. If it fails on its first try, he may get other attempts in the same round, based on its BAB, with a cumulative -5 modifier for each attempt after the first (the grappler that is resisting this attempt, i.e. the phantasmal strangler in this case, is never taking this malus, so these subsequent grapple checks have a lower chance of success for the victim).

So, first of all, you want to use it on someone with a low will save obviously, otherwise the spell does nothing and you've lost an action, which means you suck on that round (that's why no-save debuffs and save-or-be-screwed-anyhow spells are so nice). In addition, it's very, very unlikely that the victim will stay grappled for more than 2 rounds.

I've been used this spell relatively often, and it's a decent save of suck, but probably inferior on average to another 3rd debuff, ray of dizziness - provided you can reliably hit the touch AC with the ray. Or to other options available at that spell level. In general it's a bit weaker as declared in Treantmonk's guide, but still something you can legitimately take into consideration for your bonus spell slot.

[Quiet Wizard]

Thank you for all the excellent replies up above. :smallsmile: They're helpful - and I'm seeing how this spell can be better used.

---

Quick question regarding some of the spell's text:

" ... Each round on the subject's turn, it can attempt any of the actions normally allowed to a grappling character. Treat a phantasmal strangler's grapple modifier as equal to that of the subject (including modifiers for Strength, size, and all other factors) ... "

When calculating the spell's grapple modifier for a given grapple check, do you take a snapshot of the subject's current (and possibly dynamically changing via buffs/debuffs) modifiers - or do you use the same static grapple modifiers for every check within the spell's duration?

[Kaleph]

Basically you need no calculation.

Let's assume the victim was grappled, and now it's its turn - it is, so to say, the active player. It has per definition the same grapple bonus as the phantasmal strangler, since basically the strangler is created by the victim itself, the latter not really being in a grapple with anyone. So, make it easy: roll 2d20, one for the victim and one for the strangler, the higher result wins, repeat in case of a draw (you could even roll a single d100, but with 2 dice it's prettier).

If the victim fails and has at least +6 BAB, it gets a second attempt at -5; this penalty applies only to the active player, like a multiple-attacks-penalty. Consequently I understand that, only in this case, the strangler has simply +5 in comparison with the victim. So roll twice, and the active player has to win with a +6 margin at least (+5 would mean a draw, and in this case the strangler would win, since it has the higher modifier).

And so on, possibly with -10 (3rd attempt) and -15 (4th attempt).

[Hiro Quester]

The will save plus the 50% chance per round of breaking the grapple makes it risky. They might break out on the first round. But they might not. Denying them actions each round is great.

There are other third round spells that might have similar save or suck effects, though. Hold Person or Suggestion might have similar effects of removing them from combat, but with out the chance of them breaking out each round.

In the end it's probably about your playstyle and character concept more than anything. If you like illusions (e.g. you are a gnome illusionist with Spell focus (illusion) and maybe even Greater SPF (Illusion) and so can get the DC to recognizing the illusion reasonably high, then it's probably a decent spell.

If you prefer enchantments, hold person might be better.

It's even better on a Dread Witch gnome illusion-specialist (which I'm playing right now) who also gets bonuses to the DC of Fear spells, and the ability for fear effects to also affect those normally immune to fear, which would also apply here.

There is a reasonable case to argue that improvements to the DC of Illusions and Fear effects might stack here (I don't know if there is a rule about this), unlike with this spell's bigger cousin, Phantasmal Killer, that has two separate saves (vs illusion and then vs fear).

Hmmm.... it being a fear effect doesn't seem to be playing any role here. You'd think failing the will save they would also be at least shaken (and -2 to all checks including grapple checks) if they didn't recognize it as an illusion, since it's a nightmare created from their worst fears. That's just typical bad writing, I guess. Being slightly less good at grappling because of fear would tip the balance in an amusing way.

[Thunder999]

It's a fear effect because the idea is that it's taking its form from their fears.

It's OK, it won't hold most things for long but will disable anything that fails the save for at least a round since it takes actions to save against, it's like a less deadly but also less target-limited hold person in that regard, except that the escape chance is always 50%, rather than being dependent on your DCs. Now if you have a one time only save penalty or DC boost that's a good thing, if not then you can hopefully do better than a 50% success rate.

[Miss Disaster]

The spell combos well with the following:

1. Another party member using an ability or spell that nauseates a potential target. As that condition removes their Standard Action, complicating attempts to escape from the PS spell.

2. Another party member who is also grappling a potential target.

3. The caster activating a Bracers of Entanglement (Entangling Blast?) prior to casting the PS spell. Halving the already low damage of the spell isn't a big deal.

4. The caster using Chain Spell on the PS spell. Strangle all the mooks!

[Miss Disaster]

I was thinking more on this. This spell has a combination of Will Save, SR, [Mind Affecting], [Fear] and a realistic DoT-effect duration of 1-3 rounds maximum. The stars need to be aligned for a whole ton of criteria to go right for it be as valuable/effective as a fellow 3rd round attack spell like Slow.

This spell needs a mechanical boost in some fashion. I'm just not liking it in its current version.

[Quiet Wizard]

Hey Gang.

I just wanted to give an update on this thread as I finally got to play some sessions with a 7th level Illusionist who has been slinging this spell around quite vs. multiple types of villains. Here's some table-play observations (many of which map to comments made by you fine folk in this thread):



Extend Spell metamagic isn't optimal attached to this spell. Due to luck of the dice, I only once got this spell to have a duration of more than 3 rounds once. And that was for 4 rounds total. :smalltongue: Still, even when I got 1-2 rounds of a target taken out of the match, I felt I got good value for the spell.

Yep, using Bracers of the Entangling Blast is awesome with this spell. The DoT component synergizes with the initial low damage output of the spell. And of course, ENTANGLE!

"+X to DC of Fear Spells" is a fairly easy benefit to find in 3.5 and PF via magic items and feats/traits/class features. And it's usually dirt cheap.

Like Kaleph said, this spell is AWESOME in grappling massive brute creatures - which normally you'd be hard pressed to grapple with cost-effective efficiency in the first place. And that is nice utility.


-----------------------

So thanks again to all! And I'm still open to any further ways to optimize or creatively use this spell.

[daremetoidareyo]

Ocular spell seems like the way to go, paired with scroll crafting. Break out those scrolls of ocular phantasmal strangler in between your penultimate fight and the fight that in the way of you getting some shut eye.